Interesting that there is no mention of Bayer that I can see and it does 4:4:4 at full res! Now, I know that people around here get into the habit of calling bayer raw footage 4:4:4, but that does not apply to bayer.

So, is this thing three chip, or something like 3 chip, like Foveon X3, and a few others do?

I know they are doing their own design from ground up (surprising) but who's process line and technology are they basing it on.

It would seem there is no multislope ability, so the boost to 66db is most welcome. Hopefully they can get it to 72db+ by the time it gets out.

it says on the site that the sensor is CMOS based, so I think it'll only be a single sensor.

it says on the site that the sensor is CMOS based, so I think it'll only be a single sensor.
Is this a bad thing? Should it be 3? How are the other cameras like this, are they 3 chip?

peace

dalen

Is this a bad thing? Should it be 3? How are the other cameras like this, are they 3 chip?
All super35 spec DPcinematography cams such as Dalsa, ArriD20, and Genesis feature a single sensor design.

All super35 spec DPcinematography cams such as Dalsa, ArriD20, and Genesis feature a single sensor design.

Thanks...so a single is better than a 3 sensor?
Or is it just defacto for this stuff?

peace

dalen

No, not necessarily, but the way it reads is strange, so I was wondering if there is any possibility of something that takes in the three primary colours per pixel location, like the X3 (though there are a couple of companies working on this). Single chip Bayer is pretty good, 3 chip has it's advantages, and limitations on lens aperture, X3 has the advantages of both (provided they upgrade the technology).

It is unusual for a small camera company to jump straight to low level and up design of a chip like this. Design wise it is a jump, the logistics to manufacture it is also a jump. Did Jannard buy a sensor company, or at least an university design team?

Exciting prospect.

So, is this thing three chip, or something like 3 chip, like Foveon X3, and a few others do?
I'd be very surprised if they managed to pull that off.
So far there have been serious limitations on 3 layer-channel sensors like the Foveon when going beyond 4MP resolution. That is why the Sigma SD9/10 have been based on the same design for the last 4 years, it's currently incapable of evolving any further.
The only technology that I've heard any reference to in achieving similar results would be a Fuji patent that utilizes a different design to achieve the 3 layer pickup like Foveon X3 and/or traditional film without resolution limitations. Still, this doesn't necessarily eliminate anyone else from accomplishing the same thing, and it would be welcome in my book if this is in fact what RED achieved.

I would imagine the problem could be the layer structure of the method that requires precise depths. As you scale down the process to produce more resolution you also effect your ability to achieve the required depths for the layers precisely, and possibly the materials of the smaller processes are more unfriendly to the light penetration method. But it is not possible, a method is running around inside the back of my brain that might be suitable for it.

Foveon does so little, I wonder why they just don't flood the 1080/720p/SD markets, or sell out to another company.


Thanks

Wayne.

Where does it say 4:4:4 in full res?

I only see 4:4:4 along side 2K res, and that would be feasable from bayer by downsampling....

Where did I see that? The only thing I can find at the moment seems to be this page that curiously refers to 2x 4:4:4 at five times the rate of information as a HD camera (HDCAM SR by the looks of it).

http://www.red.com/products/cameras/redone/index.html

I would like to check the dates on the pages, to see if it was a typo that was corrected, but my browser doesn't give that information.

Maybe I saw it on a press release, I don't know where ever I saw it at hdforindies, but I don't know. AT the moment there is no reference to what it is, as "RAW" does not necessarily mean RAW bayer, just unprocessed.

So I'll consider it wrong, sorry my mistake. Moderator, please delete this thread.

Thanks.

Foveon does so little, I wonder why they just don't flood the 1080/720p/SD markets, or sell out to another company.

Hmmmm. Maybe they just did? ;-)

I think I see the problem.

2K isn't two thousand lines, its 2048 horizontal pixels at 1080 lines (Whoops 1100 to 1200 ish for 16:9 s35), ie fractionally more than 1080p. So 2K is a quarter of the frame, resulting in 4:4:4 when downsampled from the bayer.

Nope, Kevin, I must be wrong, I must have misread it, this has happened in another thread today as well. Unusual, I didn't think I was that far out of it, usually sickness doesn't effect me like this.

I did find mention of Bayer Raw at hdforindies.

Anyway if the moderator would like to delete this junk, it would be appreciated.