I was considering the purchase xdcam hd (330) by Sony but ran into theses posts on the new red camera and could be convinced to hold out and use our drs500 and z1 until the release.
We primarily do corporate video, and event coverage and usually distribute through standard dvd with web versions. We have entered the hd market for niche trade show type projects and for future proofing/stock footage and the occasion small market TV commercial using Vegas 6. I don’t foresee filmmaking in our near future and was wondering how this camera applies to corporate and industrial? Your comments are appreciated.
Thanks

Dave

Corporate and industrial production are two of around 14 genres of production I regularly produce, direct, and shoot. Some of my national clients have been Microsoft, Primedia, Home Depot, Best Buy, several hotel chains, and many more. The specs of the RED One camera lend itself quite nicely to basically any type of production, from a feature film down to corporate and industrial. The modularity of the camera system allows you to customize it for whatever your particular style of shooting might be. As cost effective as the RED One camera is, why not future-proof your business? With HD-DVD and blu-ray about to ship, high definiton is probably what your coprorate and industrial clients are going to want - and you can always down-rez to SD in your NLE if needed.

Gibby
www.cut4.tv

The modularity of the camera system allows you to customize it for whatever your particular style of shooting might be. As cost effective as the RED One camera is, why not future-proof your business?
I have no concerns (in principle!) with the technical specs of Red, but when "modularity" is referred to, can you confirm that for corporate/industrial (so likely to be 1080/720) it will be possible to configure the camera to a form factor comparable to, say, a DSR500?

Separate units and interconnect cables may be acceptable for feature production, but the closer one moves towards (say) news and documentaries, the less acceptable that is. Such as the DSR500 are ergonomically well suited to hand held use - how will Red compare in that respect?

I've read a lot about tech specs - far less about ergonomics and form factor, and haven't really seen that covered in post NAB info. My apologies if the information is out there and I've missed it.

Hey Dave. I just noticed that you're a new member of DV Info Net, and that was your first post. Welcome to the board! You'll find DV Info Net to be a solid collection of media industry people with a diversity of backgrounds. It's a great source of information and educated opinions. Visit us often and feel free to contribute whenever you can!

Thanks Steve...I've been reading since 2003 but yes, it's my first post. Great resource and very entertaining for the addicted like me.
The form factor comments are very interesting. Storage, media costs, nle compatibility will also be factors in our environment that usually fall in the mid price corporate productions. The whole 2k 4k variable frame rates are very new to my world and I would guess are more suited to Indies?
Any comments on xdcam hd for our type of purposes (my order button is on hold since reading about red a week ago ) This red certainly reads well, is exciting and may be worth a re-consider for our purposes. The whole approach of viral pre-marketing makes many feel like they are part of the development and in my opinion is brilliant breaking all the rules. A bit of Buckley’s perhaps.
Anyway, my key interest is to get your informed remarks (at least on paper) re: red versus alternative hd for corporate.

Hi Dave,

The RED One camera itself is quite small and compact. The options to use a cage, handles, etc, are just that. The "coolness' of the RED One camera, beyond all the resolutions, frame rates, etc, is the ability to customize the ergonomics of the camera to fit the type of production you want to do. For instance, if you are shooting a scene for a feature film in the morning, and it was to be on tripod, you'd could setup the camera with PL-mount prime lens, rods, matte box, follow focus, larger monitor and a viewfinder, and all the accessories you'd want/need for stationary, cine-style production. Let's say that same day, after your feature shoot wrapped, you had a gig to shoot some news b-roll or a documentary sequence. You could change to a B4 lens mount, shoot in 1080i or 720p as necessary, a 2/3" HD lens that you own or rent, a lighter tripod, wireless mic system, a viewfinder or the LCD (or both), and probably record to a RED Drive or RED Flash for mobility. If it was hand held news or documentary work, you could bolt on the cage or handles, or as an alternative, put the camera on a third party shoulder mount unit.

The form factor of the camera system becomes what you turn it into by adding/subtracting peripheral accessories to customize it for the type of shooting you need to do at the moment. If you don't/can't own certain accessories, simply rent them, and build that into your budget that is charged back to your client.

I hope this helps. I regularly produce, direct, and shoot in around 14 distinct genres of production. What I described above is exactly how I'll approach using the RED One camera for those genres, and exactly why I'm so excited to get my hands on my RED One camera: utility, scalability, and modularity.

my key interest is to get your informed remarks (at least on paper) re: red versus alternative hd for corporate.

Through I routinely produce large, high profile projects, I also tackle small one-person projects when they make sense and I have a gap in my schedule. Technology now fully enables making a good living as a boutique production entity. With fast laptops, smart mobile phones, and affordable camera systems, the possibilities for cost-effective production are amazing.

I worked through the complete evolution of cameras since the late '70's. I try to keep an open mind on the options. It's nothing to me to use a Sony F900 in the morning - and an HVX200 in the afternoon of the same day. I've been essentially brand-agnostic. I match the tool to the job. In corporate production, many executives, not understanding the miniaturization of technology, still equate a big camera with a professional camera. In using a smaller form factor camera like a RED One, you'd want to pitch the client on the cutting-edge technology involved, and simply accessorize the camera up in size to look bigger to the client: put it on a shoulder mount unit, attach a shotgun mic, light, wireless mic, etc.

If the client insists on a specific camera or format not supported by the RED One, you'd simply have to rent what they specify for that particular job, and build that rental fee into your bid to them.

The RED One camera system, accessorized for each corporate job I do, will be great for my corporate production work. Then when I move on to the many other genres of production I do, I 'll have the easy choice to re-accessorize the RED One for each successive project. For the versatility that my business model demands, the RED One seems to be the ideal choice!

If it was hand held news or documentary work, you could bolt on the cage or handles, or as an alternative, put the camera on a third party shoulder mount unit.
Thanks for all that. I understand the general concepts, and yes, it all makes much sense. Since my previous post I've found some photos on another thread which show it on a rifle type shoulder mount, and don't feel that compares well to the ergonomics of a standard type shoulder mount form.

Hence, will there be an option for handheld use which enables most of the length of the camera to be put beside the head, and the weight mostly taken on the shoulder? I really do find the general concepts revolutionary - it would be a shame for it to be let down by ergonomics.

The rifle mount you saw is merely a prototype. Yes, you could shoulder mount the RED One camera on any of the different, and inexpensive, 3rd party shoulder mount units that are currently being made - Video Innovators, Witronix, VariZoom, Peter Lisand, Image-2000, PAG, Frezzi, and many more. The RED camera should easily bolt onto any of them.

Thanks Steve. Nice to see a firm which takes input on board. The shoulder mount form factor wasn't arrived at by accident. Shame the other manufacturers couldn't have followed JVCs lead in the 1/3" market in that respect.

..I suppose you're not familar with the Sony DSR 250..

Point taken - I was thinking of the four HD 1/3" cameras.

This is all excellent reading. I too was in a simialr situation, looking at the XDCAM HD as a possibility and then came red and blew everything out of the water.

Practical, easy fast set-up all done by a one man crew is my concern. As well as the ability to easily move and adjust on the run - corporate work, TV doco style etc.

I'm use to using ENG style lens but now have soem learning to do about cine styles 35 and 16 mm lenses.

Thanks for the discussions. cheers.

Hopefully Red will have a nice workflow that would save you time (any data-based system has this potential). If you look at XDCAM, it can save you a lot of time on the ingest+capture stage.

Because it's data-based and not tape-based, you never have to wait on the deck to shuttle while doing log and capture. You should be able to scrub through footage to quickly sort through what you want and don't want.

One downside to XDCAM HD is that the highest bitrate is hard to capture... which forces you into a terrible workflow (i.e. I know one person capturing through HD-SDI).

One downside to XDCAM HD is that the highest bitrate is hard to capture

For the moment. It won't be long before NLE's such as Avid etc can read the files.

One of the most interesting experiences with the Panasonic Varicam was the amount of HD work shot for "corporate" customers, v's broadcast or commercials or independent films. So I agree with comments that RED can be a fantastic investment, in that it covers all of the above applications via a single body which can be very flexibly configured.

At NAB we were not able to show all the system options that will be available, because they haven't all been designed yet! A good shoulder mount and electronic viewfinder would compliment certain types of acquisition very well, just as a light weight hand held style, and tripod style can already be accomodated.

From a workflow perspective we want to offer two fundamantal workflows -

- A "DVCAM like" workflow where we record WYSIWYG (color correction in camera) with wavelet based encoded video recorded to the internal Digital Magazine (replaces the Video Cassette), where you just connect the Digital Magazine to your IEEE-1394 port of the NLE and edit away. Just that easy, the main difference is this is real HD....

- A "Film like" workflow where we record unprocessed (or even RAW) data to the Digital Magazine at 2K, or full sensor data at 4K to an external DDR. That data is then processed in a "Digital Lab" suite of post production software.

Both workflows have their own advantages, the great thing about a RED camera is that both workflows are available in a single camera and the accessories needed to switch between them are minimal.

So - corporate industrial - sure why not? The purchase price of the camera I think can be taken out of the rate card aspect of the equation when the future proof nature of the investment is considered, so that the purchase cost can be appropriately amortized.