24p for Corporate Video?

Nate Haustein · June 12th, 2008, 04:27 PM

So my humble little production company just got our biggest job yet, a 5-7 minute call to action video for a rather well known charity organization. With all the things racing through my head, I stopped on one:

What framerate should I shoot?

Personally, I like the way 24P (err...24F) turns out on my XH-A1. The video (DVD) will be used during presentations and online, but should I be using 24fps for something that may eventually be shown on Television?

I just wanted to hear what some of you thought before I jumped into the fray.

Eric Brown · June 13th, 2008, 10:01 PM

I think showing the client footage from other projects you shot and letting them decide may be best. If it seems to fit what they want then go for it.

Nate Haustein · June 17th, 2008, 08:00 AM

Thanks, I asked them and got the "whatever you think is best" response.

Lets do it. :)

Alex Humphrey · July 30th, 2008, 02:47 PM

well you probably already got done with the project.. but I vote 24p. Since even my Grandfather has a plasma now... that means that business will slowly start using LCD or Plasmas or DLP/LCD projectors for meetings...and play off a DVD.. which means your choices are 60i or 24p, and 24p just looks better on a progressive screen, (Plasma, LCD, DLP, LCD projection are progressive) No one makes an interlaced HDTV anymore, and few people make Interlaced NTSC Tube TV's anymore. If we fast forward 10 years so that you can buy a BluRay DVD player for $50 at K-Mart, then I would say 60p, but we aint der yet! DVD only plays correctly 60i and 24p (encoded in 60i stream.... but that is another discussion) BluRay of course handles 60p, 60i, 30p and 24p at 1080, 60p 30p and 24p at 720p and 60i and 24p 480 (NTSC).

So 24p (24f?) or if you had to 60i.. just please stay away from 30p. It's really only good for BluRay that is still impractical to self produce in large amounts.

David Tames · July 30th, 2008, 03:24 PM

I second Alex's 24p suggestion I think of 24p as the universal format. It translates nicely to DVD and for web video results in better video due to lower frame rate (less data per second) and progressive scan makes the video encodes job easier. Better looking video all around (unless you specifically want the 60 i look).

Paul Cascio · July 30th, 2008, 08:34 PM

I think I would go with a video look, not a film look, especially if you want to portray realism, such as showing the charities beneficiaries. The more real, the more appeal. Just my opinion.

Nate Haustein · September 3rd, 2008, 04:08 PM

Went with the 24p - it turned out sexy. Saved some space with the ProRes too. The client was happy so it all worked out.

Live United Campaign Video on Vimeo

thanks,
Nate

Shaun Roemich · September 3rd, 2008, 04:32 PM

Nate, that is 24 done RIGHT. You made absolutely the right decision. I'm NOT a universal fan of 24P but this is a fine example of when it can be used as a storytelling tool.

Very well done. If I could offer one small critique, a little bit of colour correction on the exterior shots to increase contrast would have made it just that bit better in my opinion, but again very well done! The interiors are beautiful.

Nate Haustein · September 4th, 2008, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

Very well done. If I could offer one small critique, a little bit of colour correction on the exterior shots to increase contrast would have made it just that bit better in my opinion, but again very well done! The interiors are beautiful.

Thanks, and I appreciate your suggestion.

Will Mahoney · September 10th, 2008, 08:45 AM

This is very well done and it turned out absolutely great.

Some critiques: The transition between the first segment and the playground segment was great. But going from the playground to the donor segment (from part 2 to part 3) was a little jarring. The video was smooth, but the audio cut off abruptly instead of fading slowly. It did fade a little, but then it cut off before tapering off.

And - are these people reading from cue cards? Some of the people almost seem like they are reading their written story back to you instead of just telling you their story. Make sense?

Man, those two things can be totally overlooked. This is a really, really good video. Well done.

J.J. Kim · October 1st, 2008, 06:20 PM

very well done, Nate.
I myself am looking from some corp / non-profit action since I opened up mine, no luck yet, but.
I am impressed 24p. My 24p on Xh-A1 seems very jittery after I author it to DVD.
I shot one wedding with 24p whole time, and when he saw the video, he asked "why is this so choppy?" I was somewhat disappointed, but that's the problem I am having with 24p...
Did you anything special to make movement clips (like 00:22 - 00:28) smooth look? Even some of camera movement seems not that bad, almost no choppy effect.
I need some big help, but now I learn that 24p could be smooth like your video.
Thank you for sharing!

JJ

Adrian Bordeleau · November 14th, 2008, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.J. Kim

very well done, Nate.
I myself am looking from some corp / non-profit action since I opened up mine, no luck yet, but.
I am impressed 24p. My 24p on Xh-A1 seems very jittery after I author it to DVD.
I shot one wedding with 24p whole time, and when he saw the video, he asked "why is this so choppy?" I was somewhat disappointed, but that's the problem I am having with 24p...
Did you anything special to make movement clips (like 00:22 - 00:28) smooth look? Even some of camera movement seems not that bad, almost no choppy effect.
I need some big help, but now I learn that 24p could be smooth like your video.
Thank you for sharing!

JJ

You'd be surprised how incorrect DVD authoring can really wank up 24p. I've done side-by-side encodes of 24p material with different settings and got ridiculously different results. If shot correctly, no one should complain about 24p being choppy unless you are doing near whip pans.

Jeff Harper · November 21st, 2008, 09:12 AM

Shaun, I agree with you totally. Fantastic piece. Touch of increased contrast for some of the outdoor shots, but a very minor quibble.

I look forward to trying 24p on my cam.

June 12th, 2008, 04:27 PM	#1
Nate Haustein Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Red Wing, MN Posts: 73	24p for Corporate Video? So my humble little production company just got our biggest job yet, a 5-7 minute call to action video for a rather well known charity organization. With all the things racing through my head, I stopped on one: What framerate should I shoot? Personally, I like the way 24P (err...24F) turns out on my XH-A1. The video (DVD) will be used during presentations and online, but should I be using 24fps for something that may eventually be shown on Television? I just wanted to hear what some of you thought before I jumped into the fray. __________________ Nate Haustein XHA1 - MacBook Pro 2.16Ghz - FCS2 www.riversedgedigitalmedia.com

June 17th, 2008, 08:00 AM	#3
Nate Haustein Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Red Wing, MN Posts: 73	Thanks, I asked them and got the "whatever you think is best" response. Lets do it. :) __________________ Nate Haustein XHA1 - MacBook Pro 2.16Ghz - FCS2 www.riversedgedigitalmedia.com

July 30th, 2008, 03:24 PM	#5
David Tames Kino-Eye Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Roslindale, MA Posts: 402	I second Alex's 24p suggestion I think of 24p as the universal format. It translates nicely to DVD and for web video results in better video due to lower frame rate (less data per second) and progressive scan makes the video encodes job easier. Better looking video all around (unless you specifically want the 60 i look). __________________ David Tames, Filmmaker & Media Technologist blog: http://Kino-Eye.com

July 30th, 2008, 08:34 PM	#6
Paul Cascio Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bristol, CT (Home of EPSN) Posts: 435	I think I would go with a video look, not a film look, especially if you want to portray realism, such as showing the charities beneficiaries. The more real, the more appeal. Just my opinion. __________________ Paul Cascio http://www.pictureframingschool.com

September 3rd, 2008, 04:08 PM	#7
Nate Haustein Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Red Wing, MN Posts: 73	Went with the 24p - it turned out sexy. Saved some space with the ProRes too. The client was happy so it all worked out. Live United Campaign Video on Vimeo thanks, Nate __________________ Nate Haustein XHA1 - MacBook Pro 2.16Ghz - FCS2 www.riversedgedigitalmedia.com

June 13th, 2008, 10:01 PM	#2
Eric Brown Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 427	I think showing the client footage from other projects you shot and letting them decide may be best. If it seems to fit what they want then go for it.

July 30th, 2008, 02:47 PM	#4
Alex Humphrey Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 199	well you probably already got done with the project.. but I vote 24p. Since even my Grandfather has a plasma now... that means that business will slowly start using LCD or Plasmas or DLP/LCD projectors for meetings...and play off a DVD.. which means your choices are 60i or 24p, and 24p just looks better on a progressive screen, (Plasma, LCD, DLP, LCD projection are progressive) No one makes an interlaced HDTV anymore, and few people make Interlaced NTSC Tube TV's anymore. If we fast forward 10 years so that you can buy a BluRay DVD player for $50 at K-Mart, then I would say 60p, but we aint der yet! DVD only plays correctly 60i and 24p (encoded in 60i stream.... but that is another discussion) BluRay of course handles 60p, 60i, 30p and 24p at 1080, 60p 30p and 24p at 720p and 60i and 24p 480 (NTSC). So 24p (24f?) or if you had to 60i.. just please stay away from 30p. It's really only good for BluRay that is still impractical to self produce in large amounts.

September 3rd, 2008, 04:32 PM	#8
Shaun Roemich Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada Posts: 638	Nate, that is 24 done RIGHT. You made absolutely the right decision. I'm NOT a universal fan of 24P but this is a fine example of when it can be used as a storytelling tool. Very well done. If I could offer one small critique, a little bit of colour correction on the exterior shots to increase contrast would have made it just that bit better in my opinion, but again very well done! The interiors are beautiful. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich - Gearhead Visual Productions - Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada "Telling your stories since 1999" www.gearheadvisual.com

September 10th, 2008, 08:45 AM	#10
Will Mahoney Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 228	This is very well done and it turned out absolutely great. Some critiques: The transition between the first segment and the playground segment was great. But going from the playground to the donor segment (from part 2 to part 3) was a little jarring. The video was smooth, but the audio cut off abruptly instead of fading slowly. It did fade a little, but then it cut off before tapering off. And - are these people reading from cue cards? Some of the people almost seem like they are reading their written story back to you instead of just telling you their story. Make sense? Man, those two things can be totally overlooked. This is a really, really good video. Well done. __________________ http://exposureroom.com/members/WillMahoney.aspx/ www.youtube.com/truckaccessories

October 1st, 2008, 06:20 PM	#11
J.J. Kim Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Wheeling, IL Posts: 85	very well done, Nate. I myself am looking from some corp / non-profit action since I opened up mine, no luck yet, but. I am impressed 24p. My 24p on Xh-A1 seems very jittery after I author it to DVD. I shot one wedding with 24p whole time, and when he saw the video, he asked "why is this so choppy?" I was somewhat disappointed, but that's the problem I am having with 24p... Did you anything special to make movement clips (like 00:22 - 00:28) smooth look? Even some of camera movement seems not that bad, almost no choppy effect. I need some big help, but now I learn that 24p could be smooth like your video. Thank you for sharing! JJ

November 21st, 2008, 09:12 AM	#13
Jeff Harper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 1,185	Shaun, I agree with you totally. Fantastic piece. Touch of increased contrast for some of the outdoor shots, but a very minor quibble. I look forward to trying 24p on my cam.

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