Canon to Panasonic - Where does one begin?

Bryan Ortiz · July 30th, 2008, 10:58 AM

Hello Everyone,

I once read an article a while ago where someone had done a table that listed who to a canon camera and changes its settings to best match those of a beautiful Panasonic. Since then I can no longer find that article and I was wondering if anybody has a link to it or knows of someone else who has written up an article like this?

At my job there using the Canon XH A1 and they want the gamma settings and overall look to match that of a Panasonic HPX500. So they sent me on a mission to find out.

Any help or guidance would be appreciated. Thank you

Bryan

David Tames · July 30th, 2008, 12:37 PM

This thread might offer some insights:

XH-A1 gamma setting?
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=107691

Noah Kadner · July 31st, 2008, 07:58 AM

Hard to say but to do this right would be both cameras next to each other and a good waveform equipped monitor.

Noah

Bryan Ortiz · July 31st, 2008, 08:41 AM

Thank you all for the reply and guidanace. Greatly appreciated.

Robert Lane · August 2nd, 2008, 09:47 AM

Bryan,

Just keep in mind that the cameras are shooting 2 different formats with different color spaces; HDV 4:2:0 vs. DVCPRO 4:2:2. You can boost gamma, play with knee, pedestal etc but you'll never get an exact match because the Panny is recording more color. There's no way to make up for that "0" in HDV, it's just not there hence it will appear a little more "cooler" and less contrasty in certain lighting situations especially outdoors.

Try www.adamwilt.com to fully understand the difference between these color spaces and you'll understand what I'm referring to.

Jesse R. Borrell · August 12th, 2008, 07:21 PM

would this be easier?

what if instead you attempted to match the panasonic video 4:2:2 with the "cooler" look of the canon 4:2:0?

Robert Lane · August 12th, 2008, 09:31 PM

It's always easier to knock something down than try to artificially build something up, so in fact yes, trying to match the Panny to Canon would be the way to go, not the other way.

In fact you could simplify the process by using Compressor to re-encode all your HVX clips into the exact HDV timeline specs that you want. Simply take any clip in your Final Cut browser, send it to Compressor and manually select an HDV output with the frame-rate that matches the Canon and voila, you'd have a near-match to HDV color specs. Be sure to turn-on "Frame Controls" to handle the retiming of the clips if there is a mis-match in frame rates at all; it will take longer to create the encode but the results would be far better.

Then you can simply take those re-encoded clips and drag-n-drop onto an HDV timeline and edit to your hearts content.

However the best method would be to import all your HDV clips into ProRes 422 then re-encode the HVX clips into ProRes also; this will create the most natural-looking color match without manually using the 3-Way Color Corrector on every HVX clip.

No matter how you do it it's going to be a lengthy, time-consuming process to get the clips to be as close to a near-match as possible, but those are the best methods available. That is without spending thousands of dollars having a professional color-grader do it for you. (^_^)

Benjamin Hill · August 15th, 2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Ortiz

Hello Everyone,

I once read an article a while ago where someone had done a table that listed who to a canon camera and changes its settings to best match those of a beautiful Panasonic. Since then I can no longer find that article and I was wondering if anybody has a link to it or knows of someone else who has written up an article like this?

At my job there using the Canon XH A1 and they want the gamma settings and overall look to match that of a Panasonic HPX500. So they sent me on a mission to find out.

Any help or guidance would be appreciated. Thank you

Bryan

Look at Noah's advice again, setting up the two cameras side-by-side with monitors to evaluate is the best way to match. Would be a nightmare to do in post, not to mention the results wouldn't be as good as color timing in-camera.

BTW, I believe Canon users have already gone to the trouble of creating a custom preset to emulate those Panasonics- you can find it somewhere on the A1 forum here. That might suffice, depending on your needs.

July 30th, 2008, 10:58 AM	#1
Bryan Ortiz New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Antonio, Tx Posts: 13	Canon to Panasonic - Where does one begin? Hello Everyone, I once read an article a while ago where someone had done a table that listed who to a canon camera and changes its settings to best match those of a beautiful Panasonic. Since then I can no longer find that article and I was wondering if anybody has a link to it or knows of someone else who has written up an article like this? At my job there using the Canon XH A1 and they want the gamma settings and overall look to match that of a Panasonic HPX500. So they sent me on a mission to find out. Any help or guidance would be appreciated. Thank you Bryan

July 30th, 2008, 12:37 PM	#2
David Tames Kino-Eye Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Roslindale, MA Posts: 402	This thread might offer some insights: XH-A1 gamma setting? http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=107691 __________________ David Tames, Filmmaker & Media Technologist blog: http://Kino-Eye.com

July 31st, 2008, 07:58 AM	#3
Noah Kadner Better than Halle Berry Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 184	Hard to say but to do this right would be both cameras next to each other and a good waveform equipped monitor. Noah __________________ Need help with Final Cut Pro and the HVX200, DVX100, EX1 or Apple Color? Visit http://www.callboxlive.com/store/storemain.php for training DVDs from Noah!

July 31st, 2008, 08:41 AM	#4
Bryan Ortiz New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: San Antonio, Tx Posts: 13	THank You Thank you all for the reply and guidanace. Greatly appreciated.

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August 2nd, 2008, 09:47 AM	#5
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 1,661 Images: 15	Bryan, Just keep in mind that the cameras are shooting 2 different formats with different color spaces; HDV 4:2:0 vs. DVCPRO 4:2:2. You can boost gamma, play with knee, pedestal etc but you'll never get an exact match because the Panny is recording more color. There's no way to make up for that "0" in HDV, it's just not there hence it will appear a little more "cooler" and less contrasty in certain lighting situations especially outdoors. Try www.adamwilt.com to fully understand the difference between these color spaces and you'll understand what I'm referring to.

August 12th, 2008, 07:21 PM	#6
Jesse R. Borrell New Boot Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Ridgefield, CT Posts: 11	would this be easier? what if instead you attempted to match the panasonic video 4:2:2 with the "cooler" look of the canon 4:2:0?

August 12th, 2008, 09:31 PM	#7
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 1,661 Images: 15	It's always easier to knock something down than try to artificially build something up, so in fact yes, trying to match the Panny to Canon would be the way to go, not the other way. In fact you could simplify the process by using Compressor to re-encode all your HVX clips into the exact HDV timeline specs that you want. Simply take any clip in your Final Cut browser, send it to Compressor and manually select an HDV output with the frame-rate that matches the Canon and voila, you'd have a near-match to HDV color specs. Be sure to turn-on "Frame Controls" to handle the retiming of the clips if there is a mis-match in frame rates at all; it will take longer to create the encode but the results would be far better. Then you can simply take those re-encoded clips and drag-n-drop onto an HDV timeline and edit to your hearts content. However the best method would be to import all your HDV clips into ProRes 422 then re-encode the HVX clips into ProRes also; this will create the most natural-looking color match without manually using the 3-Way Color Corrector on every HVX clip. No matter how you do it it's going to be a lengthy, time-consuming process to get the clips to be as close to a near-match as possible, but those are the best methods available. That is without spending thousands of dollars having a professional color-grader do it for you. (^_^)