Anders Mildestveit

If the RED One has a delivery time of over a year, what happens when they release a camera "everyone" can afford?

Anyone have an idea what RED does to meet the demand? Are they setting up a new factory? Have others do the manufacturing?

Chris Hurd

Two things to consider here:

1. RED isn't the same company it was a year ago, and

2. Jim is a *self-made* billionaire, so don't you think he has this pretty much figured out by now?

I don't think we're entitled to know *how* they'll do it, since I don't think it's anybody's business but their own; but I think we are entitled to have some confidence in their ability to meet the impending demand. Remember there is at least some slight degree of business acumen hard at work behind the scenes there in SoCal.

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Anders Mildestveit

I hope you're right.

I think they will pretty much sell as much as they can produce of this camera. I'm pretty sure they could sell twice as many ONE's if they could make them fast enough.

Perrone Ford

I think you are grossly overestimating the demand for the camera.

1. Mom and Pop videoshooter have never heard of RED.
2. When's the last time you saw a RED ad on TV?
3. How many home shooters can push around 3k video on their NLEs?
4. How many people cut on FCP? Which to this point is the ONLY NLE that can ingest red files.
5. How many people are willing to take their shiny new 3k footage, and downres it so they can get it into their NLE?

Scarlet is going to have some mountains to climb before it becomes a wide market product. I'm not saying it won't or can't happen. But it's going to take a while. Especially, if the workflow isn't solid early on.

Anders Mildestveit

Maybe.

They have made a little over 2000 red one's in a year, and I would think there's at least that many indy filmmakers, music and commercial makers, filmschools ect. ready to buy a $3000 3K camera early next year.
I don't know...

Red have also said they're first and foremost a research company, but that might have changed.

Perrone Ford

But to what end? Working with a Scarlet in film school isn't going to teach you about shooting FILM. It's not going to teach you about lenses, it's not going to teach you about many things in camera handling. It's probably not going to teach you much about tethered shooting, you're not going to have a focus puller etc. Are you going to attach a Mattbox on a $3k camera and worry about filter changes and such? Seems FAR more useful to do these things on a more conventional (full-sized) camera where you can plug in BNC and XLR connectors.

And would you, as a film school, buy a fleet of Scarlets from a company without much established track record, when you have the likes of Sony, Canon, and Panasonic offering educational discounts?

I think Scarlet will appeal mostly to folks like me. Interested in shooting quality images either for indie filmmaking, or for fun, but don't want to pony up for a $10k camera to do it. And I think the folks at RED have proven that they can, for the most part, handle that level of demand and support.

Anders Mildestveit

Ok cool!

I just hope they won't loose customers to other manufacturers because they can't produce enough cameras.
I really want to see RED make the big companies sweat and force them to push their own development for that pricerange.

EDIT: And about that filmschool thing: I read somewhere that filmschools was a target for the scarlet...

Meryem Ersoz

By the time you purchase all of the add-ons and upgrade your editing equipment to handle RAW processing, etc., it will be closer to $10K than $3K...in my experience.

I think film school students will love SCARLET, pulling focus is not the only thing that goes into filmmaking, that is one detail. Composition, lighting, a good story, etc, etc.

Giroud Francois

they already loose customers. The one that can't affor a RED or are not willing to wait will go to Ex1 or EX3. it is a different world but it is a good step in HD already.
these guys will learn that you can live without red or scarlett.
there is a rule in industry (never followed). When you make a good product , make sure everyone can get it.

Meryem Ersoz

RED is experiencing several shortages right now, on their recording media (RED drives) and on their 50-150mm lens, so the road to having supply meet demand is a bit rocky...I had to wait several months from the time my camera was delivered for some back-ordered parts.

And many of the promised 3rd-party accessories are taking much longer than anticipated to develop, as well.

...but if you're an image purist, there really is no other camera at this price point, no one can compete with RED on the quality/price spectrum. The image is only getting more amazing. This newly-released Build 16 is simply fantastic.

Now they just need world-class audio to match their world-class images.

Still a work-in-progress...but amazing progress it is!

Philip Gioja

I've been excited about Red One since I first heard about it, but it's out of my price range for now. For me, the Scarlet camera is like being able to afford a piece of history. It's the symbol of a new generation of film-makers, and I'd like to be a part of that if I can.

My guess is that Sony and Canon are going to wait to release anything similar, because the HD market is still a little new and unstable. I think Red will capture the market for serious independent film-makers who don't care what it takes to figure out a workflow. I've been wrong in my guesses before though (-:

Brian Drysdale

From I can gather, RED are using a different approach on the Scarlet to than used on the RED ONE. They're not "planning" to be use the customers as beta testers, as is the case to date with their first camera. You only have to look at the EX1 threads or the SSE threads in the JVC about their issues to realise that customers don't want a camera still under development. Especially if they're small business people with customers even less likely to understand than film producers.

The Scarlet needs to have a larger customer base many of whom are used to dealing with basically very reliable Sony* (or other manufacturers) cameras, so RED won't want a large number of customers having major issues with the camera - plus needing a better support structure than an on-line forum.

Workflow with the RAW cameras seems to be still a work in progress and can get complex depending on how it has to be integrated your current post production set up

* For all moaning some on-line types do.

Joseph Kassana

Guys I think you're all missing a huge point here. Whilst getting bogged down in technical semantics here is fine what we forget is that RED will not release a camera that you cannot do anything with in post.

Their aim is to 'empower'! To empower means that you will be able edit the scarlett raw on a fairly powerful PC, you won't have to spend $4k on a PC or something silly.

Empowerment means accessbility, Usability and most of all affordability.

Trust me, RED guys are no joke, they will have thought of every outcome for the independent producer/artist.

So forget fretting and just wait for it. I know it blow everything else out of the water.

Brian Drysdale

I'm not sure that you can say that they'll have thought of "every outcome for the independent producer/artist", they're smart guys, but quite a few of the problems with the RED ONE that need now workarounds were pointed out way back during the early "listening" days".

The Scarlet won't be coming out until next year at the earliest, so the workflow should have settled more by then. Affordability will depend on how much computing power has come down by then, but I wouldn't count on it being being any less than for the current HDV editing packages.

AS with the RED ONE, you need to decide of a RAW workflow is the correct one for the type of productions you're making. Rendering does take up time and time can be critical for many types of productions.

Joseph Kassana

Brian - I do agree with what you're saying. I'm pretty sure any teething problems they encounter they will resolve.

Are you listening Red? yeah they're listening.