Hoodman P2 card coming up?

Tim Polster · February 6th, 2008, 08:11 AM

The idea of paying once for the media is a benefit for the manufacturer more than the consumer.

For example, in researching an HPX-500, the camera body body is going for ~$10,200.

The package at B&H with 4 16gb cards is $13,999. That's almost $4,000 for the media.

Large format DV tapes which record for the same length as 4 P2 cards in SD (4 1/2 hours) cost $20.00 each and on advice from a Panasonic tech, can be reused until the tape breaks.

So the consumer is paying up front for roughly 190 tapes worth of storage not counting any re-using.

If anything, I see it as an equal trade, tapes=cheaper P2=convenience

It is too bad that third party is not playing that large of a role like the Hoodman products, but proprietary goods have a higher margin, therfore they will always be setup by producers.

Bob Woodhead · February 6th, 2008, 08:25 AM

"....on advice from a Panasonic tech, can be reused until the tape breaks."

MUHAHAHAhahahahahaa...... OMG....... lmao....

Excuse me.... I have to wipe the tears out of my eyes.

That is total BS. I've worked with videotape for 25+ years. You **DO NOT REUSE TAPE, EVER**. The oxide flakes and abrades off the backing starting with the 1st pass. Anyone telling you otherwise is uneducated. Always, always, use fresh tape for every shoot. (I'm not saying that there isn't a good chance the tape will be just fine if reused a # of times, but WHY? Fresh tape is the cheapest insurance there is.)

The other issue you're neglecting is that many of us aren't interested in replacing DV tape - we're replacing BetaSP, DigiBeta & HD tape .

Tim Polster · February 6th, 2008, 09:57 AM

Good point on the higher priced tapes.

I always use a fresh tape for important work, but I often use the large format tapes 3 or 4 times and the output is the same. Not until the tape breaks, but enough to save some money.

When shooting a multicam event, I will put old tapes on the second or third camera. over the year, this saves a bit on expenses.

Bob Woodhead · February 6th, 2008, 10:43 AM

I know where you're coming from on expenses.... sometimes the client's budget only goes so far, and the rest is out of your pocket. That's when my "never, ever recycle tape" isn't set in stone (though I might let the client know they're not paying enough for the job to warrant fresh tape). Or if you're internal production, you do what you have to do! My reply was really aimed at shooting for a paying client. And to diss whatever Pana tech said that comment.

Chris Hurd · February 6th, 2008, 11:10 AM

Received this morning from Hoodman USA:

----------------------------------------

Could you please let your P2 forum know the following information:

Hoodman Corporation has cancelled its P2 card project.
Our apologies go out to all who were interested.

Sincerely,
Lou Schmidt
VP Marketing
Hoodman Corporation

Marty Hudzik · February 6th, 2008, 11:22 AM

Wow. I sold my HVX almost 2 years ago now because the p2 workflow and price didn't work for many of my longform events. Originally I was holding out for the Cineporter and other 3rd party P2 options. I am glad I sold it when I did because I would be really upset at this news and the other products that never made it to market as 3rd party P2 or P2 alternatives. Definitely a huge disapointment. Good luck to those of you who were waiting on these. Hopefully other options will present themselves.

Peace.

Ted Spencer · February 6th, 2008, 12:00 PM

Well, since then Panasonic's own P2 cards have gotten much bigger and cheaper, which is probably why Hoodman cancelled their effort. 32GB cards are now available for about what 8GB cards cost two years ago, and 16GB cards are about $850. A pair of 32 GB cards will record for almost 3 hours continuously at 720p (about 168 minutes).

64 GB cards are expected later this year, at which time the prices on 32 GB and smaller cards will in all likelihood drop substantially. 128GB cards shouldn't be too far off either. With a pair of those, the HVX will go 672 minutes at 720p - that's 11 hours and 12 minutes, nonstop.

Fuji is expected to enter the P2 card market soon as well.

Dean Sensui · February 8th, 2008, 03:22 AM

Just comparing apples to apples: If you're comparing the price of P2 to tape, you'll have to compare it to DVCPro HD tape and not HDV/MiniDV tape.

DVCPro HD tape, 126 minutes: $80 = 64 cents/minute.

Then add the price of a Varicam deck, $25,000.

Kaku Ito · February 8th, 2008, 06:02 AM

Panasonic has a new release that says FujiFilm is going to sell P2 comaptible cards from Spring 2008.

February 6th, 2008, 11:10 AM	#80
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Received this morning from Hoodman USA: ---------------------------------------- Could you please let your P2 forum know the following information: Hoodman Corporation has cancelled its P2 card project. Our apologies go out to all who were interested. Sincerely, Lou Schmidt VP Marketing Hoodman Corporation __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 8th, 2008, 03:22 AM	#83
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Just comparing apples to apples: If you're comparing the price of P2 to tape, you'll have to compare it to DVCPro HD tape and not HDV/MiniDV tape. DVCPro HD tape, 126 minutes: $80 = 64 cents/minute. Then add the price of a Varicam deck, $25,000. __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

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February 6th, 2008, 08:11 AM	#76
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	The idea of paying once for the media is a benefit for the manufacturer more than the consumer. For example, in researching an HPX-500, the camera body body is going for ~$10,200. The package at B&H with 4 16gb cards is $13,999. That's almost $4,000 for the media. Large format DV tapes which record for the same length as 4 P2 cards in SD (4 1/2 hours) cost $20.00 each and on advice from a Panasonic tech, can be reused until the tape breaks. So the consumer is paying up front for roughly 190 tapes worth of storage not counting any re-using. If anything, I see it as an equal trade, tapes=cheaper P2=convenience It is too bad that third party is not playing that large of a role like the Hoodman products, but proprietary goods have a higher margin, therfore they will always be setup by producers.

February 6th, 2008, 08:25 AM	#77
Bob Woodhead Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 59	"....on advice from a Panasonic tech, can be reused until the tape breaks." MUHAHAHAhahahahahaa...... OMG....... lmao.... Excuse me.... I have to wipe the tears out of my eyes. That is total BS. I've worked with videotape for 25+ years. You DO NOT REUSE TAPE, EVER. The oxide flakes and abrades off the backing starting with the 1st pass. Anyone telling you otherwise is uneducated. Always, always, use fresh tape for every shoot. (I'm not saying that there isn't a good chance the tape will be just fine if reused a # of times, but WHY? Fresh tape is the cheapest insurance there is.) The other issue you're neglecting is that many of us aren't interested in replacing DV tape - we're replacing BetaSP, DigiBeta & HD tape .

February 6th, 2008, 09:57 AM	#78
Tim Polster Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 2,231	Good point on the higher priced tapes. I always use a fresh tape for important work, but I often use the large format tapes 3 or 4 times and the output is the same. Not until the tape breaks, but enough to save some money. When shooting a multicam event, I will put old tapes on the second or third camera. over the year, this saves a bit on expenses.

February 6th, 2008, 10:43 AM	#79
Bob Woodhead Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 59	I know where you're coming from on expenses.... sometimes the client's budget only goes so far, and the rest is out of your pocket. That's when my "never, ever recycle tape" isn't set in stone (though I might let the client know they're not paying enough for the job to warrant fresh tape). Or if you're internal production, you do what you have to do! My reply was really aimed at shooting for a paying client. And to diss whatever Pana tech said that comment.

February 6th, 2008, 11:22 AM	#81
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	Wow. I sold my HVX almost 2 years ago now because the p2 workflow and price didn't work for many of my longform events. Originally I was holding out for the Cineporter and other 3rd party P2 options. I am glad I sold it when I did because I would be really upset at this news and the other products that never made it to market as 3rd party P2 or P2 alternatives. Definitely a huge disapointment. Good luck to those of you who were waiting on these. Hopefully other options will present themselves. Peace.

February 6th, 2008, 12:00 PM	#82
Ted Spencer Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New York City (USA) Posts: 53	Well, since then Panasonic's own P2 cards have gotten much bigger and cheaper, which is probably why Hoodman cancelled their effort. 32GB cards are now available for about what 8GB cards cost two years ago, and 16GB cards are about $850. A pair of 32 GB cards will record for almost 3 hours continuously at 720p (about 168 minutes). 64 GB cards are expected later this year, at which time the prices on 32 GB and smaller cards will in all likelihood drop substantially. 128GB cards shouldn't be too far off either. With a pair of those, the HVX will go 672 minutes at 720p - that's 11 hours and 12 minutes, nonstop. Fuji is expected to enter the P2 card market soon as well.

February 8th, 2008, 06:02 AM	#84
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Panasonic has a new release that says FujiFilm is going to sell P2 comaptible cards from Spring 2008.