Contacting Canon re: adding 24p pulldown flags at DVinfo.net

Peter J Alessandria · May 1st, 2007, 11:21 PM

Seems like many of us who shoot 24p with the HV20 are frustrated by lack of pulldown removal in all the major NLE's, apparently due to Canon's failure to include the necessary flags. I have already contacted Canon about the issue but I think if enough of us complain, they'll fix it (hopefully a firmware update to our existing cameras)

Believe or it not we got Canon to recall one of their EOS still camera lenses this way last year. Many of us had problems with the newly released 70-300 IS. We sent it in for service and all Canon would say was that is was "within spec". But enough of us wrote, called, emailed and within a year they redesigned the lens and many of us (including me) got our $600 back.

On the HV20 24p issue - two ways to contact Canon:
By phone (in the US) 1-800-828-4040
And by email - start here: https://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/c...&modelid=14869 Tell them you're concerned about the lack of automatic pulldown removal on 24p files with the major video editing software programs due to Canon's failure to include flags. Suggest a firmware update. Then send the same email here: dv@cits.canon.com

I'm telling you, if enough of us complain they will change it - but we have to keep at it.

Chris Barcellos · May 1st, 2007, 11:44 PM

Link not working ???

Solomon Chase · May 2nd, 2007, 02:33 AM

The address is: https://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/c...&modelid=14869

I just sent an E-mail as well.

Mike Dulay · May 2nd, 2007, 05:03 AM

Sent mine in. How many people did it take with that EOS recall for Canon to listen?

Tim Homola · May 2nd, 2007, 06:35 AM

They just got mine.

Gavin Ouckama · May 2nd, 2007, 08:57 AM

Sent mine in ...

I am no where near the expert that you guys are, and to be honest have not even started to play with 24p yet, but I figure, with any luck, if my contribution now can make things easier for me in the future ... I'll jump on board :)

Peter J Alessandria · May 2nd, 2007, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Dulay

Sent mine in. How many people did it take with that EOS recall for Canon to listen?

Can't say how many people exactly but what happened was Canon's position for many months was "the lens was within spec". It didn't look like they were going to do anything about it. Their general response was "it's a consumer lens" so the specs aren't as high as our pro lenses. But clearly there was a problem and we were all seeing it. More and more of us starting discussing the issue on-line in the various Canon still camera forums and then as we started calling and sending the lens in for repair, one day Canon was like "we see there's a problem but we don't have a fix." Several more months passed and they finally announced they had redesigned the lens. People got their old lenses replaced/repaired. In the meantime, those of us who didn't want to wait called Canon USA HQ in Lake Succes, NY and got our money back - even though in my case for instance it had been like 6 or 8 months since I had purchased the lens (from B&H BTW, not Canon directly.) But the whole point is, if we had quit when we first got their response that it was a consumer lens and within the Canon specs for the lens, we'd still be stuck with a problem.

I'm no engineer, but I think the problem with pulldown flags in the HV20 can be solved by a simple firmware update. I suspect the original thinking was, well it's a consumer cam and most people don't edit their footage anyway. But if they realize enough of us want this, why not just make the change.

The other thing we did with the lens situation was call/email the regional Canon service centers. There's one in Irvine, Calif., another in New Jersey and one in Chicago and Hawaii (check the back page of the owners manual - there are also two in Canada.) I think flooding them with calls and emails was instrumental in getting that lens recalled.

Craig Irving · May 2nd, 2007, 09:05 AM

Wait.... what's the issue exactly?

I have the V1U and most NLE's have yet to recognize it, but CineForm (and a lot of other tools can do the Inverse Telecine / Pulldown Removal process). Is this not the case with the HV20?

I considered the HV20 as a b-roll camera for it's 24P so if they ignored doing something crucial I'd love to know more about the issue.

I expect all the new updates to NLEs (aside from Vegas which already supports this) will support the V1U's 24P mode, so what makes Canon users think that they won't support the HV20's 24P mode?

Peter J Alessandria · May 2nd, 2007, 09:12 AM

From what I can tell, Sony includes the flags in V1U files. Canon doesn't. Vegas 7 for instance can't do pulldown on the HV20 files, while apparently it works fine with the V1U. So... that's the problem. Also from what I gather, Cineform doesn't rely on flags for doing its pulldown removal...

Ian Albinson · May 2nd, 2007, 09:13 AM

Sent via the form and email address!

Steve Szudzik · May 2nd, 2007, 09:30 AM

Sent mine as well.

-Steve

Wes Vasher · May 2nd, 2007, 10:40 AM

Sent, the DVInfo community rises up! The rep even replied that they've received quite a few of these requests today.

Peter J Alessandria · May 2nd, 2007, 11:54 AM

We're more powerful than we think... :-)

Steve Szudzik · May 2nd, 2007, 11:56 AM

My response back was much more generic..

They said that Canon USA has made no announcements regarding the development or release
of a firmware update related to the issue described. Oh well, at least it's on file. Hopefully with enough of us asking, they'll take it seriously.

--Steve

C.S. Michael · May 2nd, 2007, 12:43 PM

I just sent them an email.

Seems a shame to have a 24p camera and no easy way to edit the footage! Hopefully they will jump on it.

May 1st, 2007, 11:21 PM	#1
Peter J Alessandria Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 293	Contacting Canon re: adding 24p pulldown flags Seems like many of us who shoot 24p with the HV20 are frustrated by lack of pulldown removal in all the major NLE's, apparently due to Canon's failure to include the necessary flags. I have already contacted Canon about the issue but I think if enough of us complain, they'll fix it (hopefully a firmware update to our existing cameras) Believe or it not we got Canon to recall one of their EOS still camera lenses this way last year. Many of us had problems with the newly released 70-300 IS. We sent it in for service and all Canon would say was that is was "within spec". But enough of us wrote, called, emailed and within a year they redesigned the lens and many of us (including me) got our $600 back. On the HV20 24p issue - two ways to contact Canon: By phone (in the US) 1-800-828-4040 And by email - start here: https://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/c...&modelid=14869 Tell them you're concerned about the lack of automatic pulldown removal on 24p files with the major video editing software programs due to Canon's failure to include flags. Suggest a firmware update. Then send the same email here: dv@cits.canon.com I'm telling you, if enough of us complain they will change it - but we have to keep at it. Last edited by Peter J Alessandria; May 2nd, 2007 at 09:59 AM.

May 1st, 2007, 11:44 PM	#2
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Link not working ??? __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

May 2nd, 2007, 05:03 AM	#4
Mike Dulay Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Somerville, NJ Posts: 304	Sent mine in. How many people did it take with that EOS recall for Canon to listen? __________________ DIY, 35mm, HV20: http://www.primitivebuteffective.net

May 2nd, 2007, 10:40 AM	#12
Wes Vasher Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 440	Sent, the DVInfo community rises up! The rep even replied that they've received quite a few of these requests today. __________________ Clips \| Stills

May 2nd, 2007, 02:33 AM	#3
Solomon Chase Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Woodstock, Georgia Posts: 154	The address is: https://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/c...&modelid=14869 I just sent an E-mail as well.

May 2nd, 2007, 06:35 AM	#5
Tim Homola Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 30	They just got mine.

May 2nd, 2007, 08:57 AM	#6
Gavin Ouckama New Boot Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 19	Sent mine in ... I am no where near the expert that you guys are, and to be honest have not even started to play with 24p yet, but I figure, with any luck, if my contribution now can make things easier for me in the future ... I'll jump on board :)

May 2nd, 2007, 09:05 AM	#8
Craig Irving Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 539	Wait.... what's the issue exactly? I have the V1U and most NLE's have yet to recognize it, but CineForm (and a lot of other tools can do the Inverse Telecine / Pulldown Removal process). Is this not the case with the HV20? I considered the HV20 as a b-roll camera for it's 24P so if they ignored doing something crucial I'd love to know more about the issue. I expect all the new updates to NLEs (aside from Vegas which already supports this) will support the V1U's 24P mode, so what makes Canon users think that they won't support the HV20's 24P mode?

May 2nd, 2007, 09:12 AM	#9
Peter J Alessandria Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 293	From what I can tell, Sony includes the flags in V1U files. Canon doesn't. Vegas 7 for instance can't do pulldown on the HV20 files, while apparently it works fine with the V1U. So... that's the problem. Also from what I gather, Cineform doesn't rely on flags for doing its pulldown removal...

May 2nd, 2007, 09:13 AM	#10
Ian Albinson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Springfield, US Posts: 63	Sent via the form and email address!

May 2nd, 2007, 09:30 AM	#11
Steve Szudzik Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sammamish, WA Posts: 103	Sent mine as well. -Steve

May 2nd, 2007, 11:54 AM	#13
Peter J Alessandria Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 293	We're more powerful than we think... :-)

May 2nd, 2007, 11:56 AM	#14
Steve Szudzik Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sammamish, WA Posts: 103	My response back was much more generic.. They said that Canon USA has made no announcements regarding the development or release of a firmware update related to the issue described. Oh well, at least it's on file. Hopefully with enough of us asking, they'll take it seriously. --Steve

May 2nd, 2007, 12:43 PM	#15
C.S. Michael Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 197	I just sent them an email. Seems a shame to have a 24p camera and no easy way to edit the footage! Hopefully they will jump on it.