Dolby Pro Logic II at DVinfo.net

Chris Hocking · November 7th, 2007, 03:20 AM

Does anyone know how I can get a Dolby Pro Logic II encoded audio track out of Final Cut (apart from SurCode, which is way too expensive for this one off project)?

I've got a surround sound mix (6 individual AIFF files). Now I need to somehow magically encode them all into a single stereo file (using Pro Logic II).

Any ideas?

I considered using the Dolby Surround Toolkit for Protools, however, it doesn't seem to work on LE (seeing as you can't have surround channels in there).

The aim is to go from Final Cut back to DVCPro50 with the Dolby Pro Logic II encoded audio.

Robert Ducon · November 7th, 2007, 05:05 AM

I'd love to know more about doing audio for Pro Logic II systems.

As far as I know, it's encoded into a two-channel audio format - it's a matrix of data/sound that can be played back on ANY system; Pro Logic II systems 'see' the matrix and put the sound to each channel that they're supposed to.

That said, that's the theory that I've read. Anyone who can expand, please share.

Chris Hocking · November 7th, 2007, 05:09 AM

That's pretty much the theory behind it! However, I've already given up on it. Seems as if SurCode is the only software out there that can do the encoding...

I'm now trying to solve the same problem by using SRS Circle Surround (which is pretty much the same thing).

Found some demo software (http://srslabs.com/partners/paprod/susf_csvst.asp), but now I just need to find a program that can handle VST plug-ins! Unfortunately I don't own Nuendo or CuBase!

The hunt continues...

Chris Hocking · November 7th, 2007, 06:45 AM

Without an audio program that can handle multi-track VST plug-ins, I had to give up on the SRS idea... I then started investigating DTS NEO:6.

However! There seems to be NO software out there for film-makers with very little funds to encode audio to Dolby Pro Logic II, SRS Circle Surround or DTS NEO:6! Very disappointing!

So my next question is, can I encode the audio with hardware? Can I somehow get a Pro Logic II signal out of a DVD player? I'm not able to buy any proper external encoding hardware, but I'm hoping I can use a consumer product (i.e. a DVD player) to achieve the same end result (i.e. Dolby Digital 5.1 in, Pro Logic II out).

Any crazy ideas?

Steve House · November 7th, 2007, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hocking

Without an audio program that can handle multi-track VST plug-ins, I had to give up on the SRS idea... I then started investigating DTS NEO:6.

However! There seems to be NO software out there for film-makers with very little funds to encode audio to Dolby Pro Logic II, SRS Circle Surround or DTS NEO:6! Very disappointing!

So my next question is, can I encode the audio with hardware? Can I somehow get a Pro Logic II signal out of a DVD player? I'm not able to buy any proper external encoding hardware, but I'm hoping I can use a consumer product (i.e. a DVD player) to achieve the same end result (i.e. Dolby Digital 5.1 in, Pro Logic II out).

Any crazy ideas?

The reason you're running into this is that Dolby Labs and the DTS folks want very high license fees for their products and that is a major part of the cost.

It'll require a platform switch over to Windows but Sony Soundforge and Vegas both render to Dolby AC-3 surround if that helps. Unfortunately their license terms are very explicit that the resulting encoded files are licensed for non-commercial, non-broadcast uses only.

Emre Safak · November 7th, 2007, 09:07 AM

I've made SRS and DPLII encoded files on Windows. There are several command line tools on doom9, if you are interested. I found it not worth the trouble. I bet they are on hydrogenaudio too.

Good luck!

Duncan Craig · November 7th, 2007, 09:21 AM

Hiya, I guess you need a PLII version for a very specific reason. Obviously 5.1 would be a much better option. You can use Compressor from Apple (part of FCS) to encode to AC3 (5.1 or whatever you need) from 6 discrete AIFFs or whatever.

As regards a DVD player which outputs PLII from an 5.1 or DTS DVD disc, I can't help, but I expect it'll be hard to find.
5.1 decoders are so cheap now.

Duncan.

Jason Robinson · November 7th, 2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House

Unfortunately their license terms are very explicit that the resulting encoded files are licensed for non-commercial, non-broadcast uses only.

I dont' want to side track the thread, but.....
Where did I miss that limitation in the V8Pro feature set? They don't mention it on the web site..... is it in the fine print on the EULA?

Steve House · November 7th, 2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Robinson

I dont' want to side track the thread, but.....
Where did I miss that limitation in the V8Pro feature set? They don't mention it on the web site..... is it in the fine print on the EULA?

Page 2 of the manual, under the section entitled "Legal Notices"

Chris Hocking · November 7th, 2007, 07:07 PM

Thanks everyone for your replies!

Yes, I have no problem creating a Dolby Digital 5.1 AC3 file. As you said, Compressor can do that hassle free...

But, in this instance, I need to cram 5.1 audio onto a stereo source. Hence the reason for Pro Logic II (or similar)...

Emre, I've been hunting the net for hours and haven't found anything yet! Those command line tools sound EXACTLY what I need... Where can I find them?

Steve, I've actually got SoundForge running on my PC - but yeah, AC3 doesn't help in this situation! I also understand that all those companies are crazy about licenses, however, I think thought that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE would have made a tool that can do it... The Internet seems to always have a solution hidden away somewhere! I'll just keep looking!

Chris!

Emre Safak · November 7th, 2007, 07:38 PM

I use azid with the besweet gui.

Chris Hocking · November 7th, 2007, 10:07 PM

Thanks so much Emre! I really appreciate it!

I have no idea why I didn't come across besweet earlier! I guess it's because they word things slightly different (i.e. Dolby Surround 2 instead of Pro Logic II).

Never-the-less, I think I have things working now!

This is how I did it on PC...

1. Downloaded BeSweet 1.5 (a very tool to have lying around!)
2. Downloaded BeLight 0.22 (which is BeSweet's GUI)
3. Then ran BeSweet with the following options:

Code:

-core( -input INCOMING.ac3 -output OUTGOING.wav -2ch -logfile LOGFILE.log ) -azid( -L -3db -c normal -s surround2 -g max ) -ota( -d -288 )

That then gave me Pro Logic II encoded WAV file. I opened it up in Quicktime Pro and exported out as a standard stereo AIFF. Done & Done!

But, just as I finished that, I came across another way of doing it - this time on Mac!

HandBrake can convert a Dolby Digital 5.1 DVD to a Stereo Pro Logic II AAC file. Haven't tried it yet, but I'm going to give it a test now...

Robert - Comprehensive information on Pro Logic II can be found via good old Wikipedia!

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Pro_Logic

Also see: A Listener's Guide to Dolby Pro Logic II

Chris!

Chris Hocking · November 13th, 2007, 04:52 AM

Ended up going with the BeSweet technique as opposed to HandBrake. It worked perfectly! If you compare the Dolby Digital AC3 export to the Pro Logic II export, it sounds very similar on various different surround sound systems.

Also realised that FCP can actually handle WAV files - so no need to convert to an AIFF.

Chris!

November 7th, 2007, 03:20 AM	#1
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Dolby Pro Logic II Does anyone know how I can get a Dolby Pro Logic II encoded audio track out of Final Cut (apart from SurCode, which is way too expensive for this one off project)? I've got a surround sound mix (6 individual AIFF files). Now I need to somehow magically encode them all into a single stereo file (using Pro Logic II). Any ideas? I considered using the Dolby Surround Toolkit for Protools, however, it doesn't seem to work on LE (seeing as you can't have surround channels in there). The aim is to go from Final Cut back to DVCPro50 with the Dolby Pro Logic II encoded audio.

November 7th, 2007, 05:05 AM	#2
Robert Ducon Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Victoria BC Posts: 400	I'd love to know more about doing audio for Pro Logic II systems. As far as I know, it's encoded into a two-channel audio format - it's a matrix of data/sound that can be played back on ANY system; Pro Logic II systems 'see' the matrix and put the sound to each channel that they're supposed to. That said, that's the theory that I've read. Anyone who can expand, please share. __________________ Mac + Canon HV20

November 7th, 2007, 10:07 PM	#12
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Thanks so much Emre! I really appreciate it! I have no idea why I didn't come across besweet earlier! I guess it's because they word things slightly different (i.e. Dolby Surround 2 instead of Pro Logic II). Never-the-less, I think I have things working now! This is how I did it on PC... 1. Downloaded BeSweet 1.5 (a very tool to have lying around!) 2. Downloaded BeLight 0.22 (which is BeSweet's GUI) 3. Then ran BeSweet with the following options: Code: -core( -input INCOMING.ac3 -output OUTGOING.wav -2ch -logfile LOGFILE.log ) -azid( -L -3db -c normal -s surround2 -g max ) -ota( -d -288 ) That then gave me Pro Logic II encoded WAV file. I opened it up in Quicktime Pro and exported out as a standard stereo AIFF. Done & Done! But, just as I finished that, I came across another way of doing it - this time on Mac! HandBrake can convert a Dolby Digital 5.1 DVD to a Stereo Pro Logic II AAC file. Haven't tried it yet, but I'm going to give it a test now... Robert - Comprehensive information on Pro Logic II can be found via good old Wikipedia! See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Pro_Logic Also see: A Listener's Guide to Dolby Pro Logic II Chris!

November 7th, 2007, 05:09 AM	#3
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	That's pretty much the theory behind it! However, I've already given up on it. Seems as if SurCode is the only software out there that can do the encoding... I'm now trying to solve the same problem by using SRS Circle Surround (which is pretty much the same thing). Found some demo software (http://srslabs.com/partners/paprod/susf_csvst.asp), but now I just need to find a program that can handle VST plug-ins! Unfortunately I don't own Nuendo or CuBase! The hunt continues...

November 7th, 2007, 06:45 AM	#4
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Without an audio program that can handle multi-track VST plug-ins, I had to give up on the SRS idea... I then started investigating DTS NEO:6. However! There seems to be NO software out there for film-makers with very little funds to encode audio to Dolby Pro Logic II, SRS Circle Surround or DTS NEO:6! Very disappointing! So my next question is, can I encode the audio with hardware? Can I somehow get a Pro Logic II signal out of a DVD player? I'm not able to buy any proper external encoding hardware, but I'm hoping I can use a consumer product (i.e. a DVD player) to achieve the same end result (i.e. Dolby Digital 5.1 in, Pro Logic II out). Any crazy ideas?

November 7th, 2007, 09:07 AM	#6
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	I've made SRS and DPLII encoded files on Windows. There are several command line tools on doom9, if you are interested. I found it not worth the trouble. I bet they are on hydrogenaudio too. Good luck!

November 7th, 2007, 09:21 AM	#7
Duncan Craig Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 660 Images: 10	Hiya, I guess you need a PLII version for a very specific reason. Obviously 5.1 would be a much better option. You can use Compressor from Apple (part of FCS) to encode to AC3 (5.1 or whatever you need) from 6 discrete AIFFs or whatever. As regards a DVD player which outputs PLII from an 5.1 or DTS DVD disc, I can't help, but I expect it'll be hard to find. 5.1 decoders are so cheap now. Duncan.

November 7th, 2007, 07:07 PM	#10
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Thanks everyone for your replies! Yes, I have no problem creating a Dolby Digital 5.1 AC3 file. As you said, Compressor can do that hassle free... But, in this instance, I need to cram 5.1 audio onto a stereo source. Hence the reason for Pro Logic II (or similar)... Emre, I've been hunting the net for hours and haven't found anything yet! Those command line tools sound EXACTLY what I need... Where can I find them? Steve, I've actually got SoundForge running on my PC - but yeah, AC3 doesn't help in this situation! I also understand that all those companies are crazy about licenses, however, I think thought that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE would have made a tool that can do it... The Internet seems to always have a solution hidden away somewhere! I'll just keep looking! Chris!

November 7th, 2007, 07:38 PM	#11
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	I use azid with the besweet gui.

November 13th, 2007, 04:52 AM	#13
Chris Hocking Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 595	Ended up going with the BeSweet technique as opposed to HandBrake. It worked perfectly! If you compare the Dolby Digital AC3 export to the Pro Logic II export, it sounds very similar on various different surround sound systems. Also realised that FCP can actually handle WAV files - so no need to convert to an AIFF. Chris!