Vegas Pro 8 Workflow at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PXW-Z280, Z190, X180 etc. (going back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 16th, 2008, 09:10 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Haiku, HI
Posts: 203
Images: 12
Vegas Pro 8 Workflow

If possible, could someone here give a brief description of their Vegas workflow for the EX 1. A current thread regarding 8 bit to 32 bit coversion and colorspace conversions has brought me to the reality that I am just hacking away.


Thanks in advance,
Randy
Randy Strome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2008, 10:22 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Palm Desert, California
Posts: 311
Yes Randy. It is so simple compared to capturing HDV from tape.

1. Put the SxS card into the express slot
2. Open clip browser
3. Select the clips you want
4. Hit Cntl G and you will be prompted for the directory where your want your media
5. Hit OK and close clip browser. Put SxS card back in camera so you don't forget it.
6. Open Vegas
7. Choose product settings to match what you shot. For best results choose 32 bit color processing
8. In scopes uncheck 7.5 IRE and Studio IRE even though for me I see no difference, Piotr says he does?

As an alternative for using a 10 bit codex which is recommended capture not with clip browser but with Cineform NEO-HD and convert not to .mxf but I think it uses avi if that's what you want.

Hope this was what you were looking for.

Michael
Michael H. Stevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2008, 10:38 AM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
My only reservations about the list, Michael, apply to the last 2 points. Unless doing a lot of compositing where computational precision is important, I don't see any advantage in using 32bit mode all the way through the final render. If I want broader range and/or richer colours, I'd apply the Studio -> Computer RGB conversion.

But I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert here; in fact since the Vegas Pro 8.0 release there has been quite a confusion regarding the true 32bit advantages, and the workflow most suitable to use them - one thing is for sure: 32bit requires considerably longer render times.
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2008, 10:39 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Haiku, HI
Posts: 203
Images: 12
Thanks Michael,

I am with you up to step 7. I have just been editing in 8 bit. Do I need to reconvert to 8 bit and a different colorspace at some point before export if 32 bit is chosen?
Randy Strome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2008, 10:42 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Haiku, HI
Posts: 203
Images: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
My only reservations about the list, Michael, apply to the last 2 points. Unless doing a lot of compositing where computational precision is important, I don't see any advantage in using 32bit mode all the way through the final render. If I want broader range and/or richer colours, I'd apply the Studio -> Computer RGB conversion.
What benefit are you noticing from Computer RGB? Are you reconverting prior to export?
Randy Strome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2008, 10:45 AM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Palm Desert, California
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
My only reservations about the list, Michael, apply to the last 2 points. Unless doing a lot of compositing where computational precision is important, I don't see any advantage in using 32bit mode all the way through the final render. If I want broader range and/or richer colours, I'd apply the Studio -> Computer RGB conversion.

But I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert here; in fact since the Vegas Pro 8.0 release there has been quite a confusion regarding the true 32bit advantages, and the workflow most suitable to use them - one thing is for sure: 32bit requires considerably longer render times.
Piotr: Please explain in detail what you mean by and how to do this conversion? Maybe you mean something different from me. I see nothing on this is the Vegas manual. I know what Glenn says but just how do you do this other than checking the scope boxes?
Michael H. Stevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2008, 10:52 AM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
Michael,

The conversion is someting different to changing the scope settings! It's in fact a video FX; you can access it using Sony CC or Sony CC (Secondary), where - in the presets drop-down list - the two conversions are available (i.e. Computer RGB to Studio RGB, and vice versa).

Also, as an additional note, I have noticed that in my final "Render as" template I must choose explicitely PAL (or Component) as video space in the Advanced Video tab; otherwise the colours are flat in the rendered material (in many templates, Vegas uses NTSC as the default). Of course this is probably only important in the PAL area.
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2008, 11:19 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Haiku, HI
Posts: 203
Images: 12
Hi guys,

Can you direct me to some good info on Studio to Computer RGB and 32 bit usage in Vegas.

The difference between 8 bit and 32 bit is so pronounced that my video looks unacceptable (washed out, overexposed, etc) in 8 bit and outstanding (great contrast, correct exposure) in 32 bit. How do I translate that 32 bit look into my final product.

The conversion to computer RGB appears to simply be a preset group of gain, saturation and offset adjustments.

Additionally, I would love to hear what render settings you are using for high quality web export.

I need some serious help in sorting out a decent workflow and in honesty feel quite lost.

Thanks,
Randy
Randy Strome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2008, 01:02 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Palm Desert, California
Posts: 311
RANDY: In my renders the colors remain just as great as in preview. Maybe its the render settings? I do no color space conversion (And thanks to Piotr I now know what that is) and I am rendering to .m2t using the Main-Concepts HD 1920x1080x24p Vegas preset. Played from the PS3 to the monitor looks exactly the same as playing the time-line to the monitor. When I get the poor washed-out color is if I apply the Computer to Studio conversion so I don't do that.
Michael H. Stevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2008, 01:25 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Haiku, HI
Posts: 203
Images: 12
Thanks Michael,

So if I understand you correctly, you are using the Studio to Computer RGB FX, but are not converting back to Studio RGB before export render. Is that right?

How about you Piotr?

Thanks again!
Randy Strome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2008, 01:34 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Palm Desert, California
Posts: 311
NO. As I see it, when you import the mxf files from the clip browser they are already in Computer RGB. You can test this because if you apply a studio to computer RGB nothing happens, but if you apply a computer to studio RGB the colors wash out. So I NEVER MAKE A CONVERSION EITHER WAY EVER.
Michael H. Stevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2008, 01:40 PM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Haiku, HI
Posts: 203
Images: 12
When I apply studio to computer RGB, I get an enourmous change. The picture goes from washed out to contrasty and vivid. Do you think this could be some kind of preset problem?
Randy Strome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2008, 02:44 PM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 317
This is a very interesting topic here and something Ive been wondering how this stuff works. I dont understand much of it but I will show some examples here and ask questions if someone cares to elaborate.

So when I put mfx files to an 8bit timeline they look fine to me and as I expect them to be. When I change the project to 32bit whites get clipped and blacks get crushed. Totally opposite of what Randy sees.

When I apply studio to computer rgb to 8 bit whites get clipped and blacks get crushed as well.

So in 32 bit mode I have to do a computer to studio rgb conversion and the image looks right again.

So is this how you should do it? If you want to work in 32bit you have to apply the computer to studio rgb?

When the images look right you can see in the waveform monitor that
8bit goes up to 100% and 32 bit (with comp to studio rgb applied) goes to about 110%. What does this mean as the image looks the same in both modes?

Sami
Attached Thumbnails
Vegas Pro 8 Workflow-8bit.jpg   Vegas Pro 8 Workflow-32bit.jpg  

Vegas Pro 8 Workflow-8bit_studio_to_comp_rgb.jpg   Vegas Pro 8 Workflow-32bit_comp_to_studio_rgb.jpg  

Sami Sanpakkila is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2008, 05:46 PM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Palm Desert, California
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Strome View Post
When I apply studio to computer RGB, I get an enourmous change. The picture goes from washed out to contrasty and vivid. Do you think this could be some kind of preset problem?
Randy: Are you setting your project properties to 32bit and gamma 1 before you inport the files? Maybe this makes your capture look to be studio color space and not computer?

Sami: What you is saying is similar to what I have been reporting in my thread about how to cope with clipped histograms but maybe that was on the Vegas forum.
Michael H. Stevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2008, 06:47 PM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 162
Images: 3
Okay, so if you switch the pixel properties in the project from 8 bit to 32 bit floating point, are you matching the properties of the clip or are you changing the properties of the project?

In other words, is the added contrast that I see when I change it to 32 bit because that's the way it's "supposed" to look or is it making it that way?

- Ray
__________________
www.undergroundplanet.com
Raymond Schlogel is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:36 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network