HVR-Z1 and 24P at DVinfo.net

Paul Brady · December 5th, 2004, 12:19 PM

Does the HVR-Z1 have true 24P like their $80,000.00 cameras in HDV mode. Can the HVR-Z1 shoot 24P like the XL2 24P in non HDV. Does canon and sony both use the same method of getting 24P.

Walter Graff · December 5th, 2004, 12:21 PM

Sony uses something they call CineFrame 24 which works by dropping every fifth interlaced frame over the period of 30 frames, thereby creating 24 interlaced samples per second. Although 24 samples per second are obtained, the sampling interval is not constant with a real 24fps camera.

Paul Brady · December 5th, 2004, 01:19 PM

Would the best situation be true 24P, which canon and panasonic has. So if I was shooting regular DV the XL2 would have better picture than the new sony. If I was shooting HVD it would not be as good as the proffesional camaras. Paul

Graeme Nattress · December 5th, 2004, 01:20 PM

Hi Walter!! Good to see you here!

Is that what it's really doing?? Ouch. I knew it looked bad but.... I know some cheapo Sony home cameras did that. Wow. How did you find out the details as Sony seem to be keeping tight lipped... No wonder why!

Graeme

Walter Graff · December 5th, 2004, 04:17 PM

hi Graeme,

Steve Mullen said that is how they do it. It sure looks l like crap from my tests with it. As long as you are shooting dead people it looks okay.

Graeme Nattress · December 5th, 2004, 08:30 PM

Thanks Walter. Looks like I'll still be working on Film Effects then, adding features for HDV users.

Graeme

Hayden Rivers · December 5th, 2004, 09:35 PM

I've heard CineFrame24 sucks but CineFrame25 is supposed to look great. Going from 25 to 24fps is supposed to be very easy. I'm not even sure if it's necessary unless you're doing a filmout. I'm probably the single most excited person on these boards to see what people can do with CineFrame25.

Barry Green · December 6th, 2004, 12:59 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Walter Graff : As long as you are shooting dead people it looks okay. -->>>

It should, but in reality it doesn't -- it even looks awful on still shots! We shot some resolution charts with the camera, and in CF24 mode there's an odd weird pulsing going on -- plus field-based flicker. It looks lousy on still shots as well as on moving shots. CF24 is completely unusable.

Walter Graff · December 6th, 2004, 07:15 AM

What medium were you using to view the footage. Was it live, was it a dump to computer?

Heath McKnight · December 6th, 2004, 08:59 AM

This is a conversation we have a lot. Do a search to find other discussions.

heath

Barry Green · December 6th, 2004, 01:26 PM

Viewed via component output on a 1080i HD monitor.

Peter Moore · December 7th, 2004, 08:38 AM

We're talking about the Z1 or the FX1? The Z1 is supposed to be better.

Walter Graff · December 7th, 2004, 08:44 AM

Better? It has some extra features and XLRs but is the same camera with a different label.

Chris Hurd · December 7th, 2004, 08:59 AM

For a detailed list of differences between the FX1 and Z1U, see my extensive Sony HDV Comparison Chart here.

Barry Green · December 7th, 2004, 12:51 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Moore : We're talking about the Z1 or the FX1? The Z1 is supposed to be better. -->>>

We don't know that -- there was some speculation that maybe the Z1 handled CF24 differently than the FX1 did. Chris Hurd assures us that there is no difference in that regard, so no, the Z1 would be no better.

But, until there's a final finished product on store shelves, anything could happen. I sincerely hope (for the Z1's sake, and for the sake of all the people who spend $5000 to $6000 on it) that the CF24 mode is somehow improved on the Z1.

December 5th, 2004, 12:19 PM	#1
Paul Brady Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 43	HVR-Z1 and 24P Does the HVR-Z1 have true 24P like their $80,000.00 cameras in HDV mode. Can the HVR-Z1 shoot 24P like the XL2 24P in non HDV. Does canon and sony both use the same method of getting 24P.

December 5th, 2004, 01:19 PM	#3
Paul Brady Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 43	24P Would the best situation be true 24P, which canon and panasonic has. So if I was shooting regular DV the XL2 would have better picture than the new sony. If I was shooting HVD it would not be as good as the proffesional camaras. Paul

December 5th, 2004, 01:20 PM	#4
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	Hi Walter!! Good to see you here! Is that what it's really doing?? Ouch. I knew it looked bad but.... I know some cheapo Sony home cameras did that. Wow. How did you find out the details as Sony seem to be keeping tight lipped... No wonder why! Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

December 5th, 2004, 08:30 PM	#6
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	Thanks Walter. Looks like I'll still be working on Film Effects then, adding features for HDV users. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

December 6th, 2004, 08:59 AM	#10
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	This is a conversation we have a lot. Do a search to find other discussions. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

December 5th, 2004, 12:21 PM	#2
Walter Graff Hellgate Pictures, Inc. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 124	Sony uses something they call CineFrame 24 which works by dropping every fifth interlaced frame over the period of 30 frames, thereby creating 24 interlaced samples per second. Although 24 samples per second are obtained, the sampling interval is not constant with a real 24fps camera.

December 5th, 2004, 04:17 PM	#5
Walter Graff Hellgate Pictures, Inc. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 124	hi Graeme, Steve Mullen said that is how they do it. It sure looks l like crap from my tests with it. As long as you are shooting dead people it looks okay.

December 5th, 2004, 09:35 PM	#7
Hayden Rivers Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 53	I've heard CineFrame24 sucks but CineFrame25 is supposed to look great. Going from 25 to 24fps is supposed to be very easy. I'm not even sure if it's necessary unless you're doing a filmout. I'm probably the single most excited person on these boards to see what people can do with CineFrame25.

December 6th, 2004, 12:59 AM	#8
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	<<<-- Originally posted by Walter Graff : As long as you are shooting dead people it looks okay. -->>> It should, but in reality it doesn't -- it even looks awful on still shots! We shot some resolution charts with the camera, and in CF24 mode there's an odd weird pulsing going on -- plus field-based flicker. It looks lousy on still shots as well as on moving shots. CF24 is completely unusable.

December 6th, 2004, 07:15 AM	#9
Walter Graff Hellgate Pictures, Inc. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 124	What medium were you using to view the footage. Was it live, was it a dump to computer?

December 6th, 2004, 01:26 PM	#11
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Viewed via component output on a 1080i HD monitor.

December 7th, 2004, 08:38 AM	#12
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	We're talking about the Z1 or the FX1? The Z1 is supposed to be better.

December 7th, 2004, 08:44 AM	#13
Walter Graff Hellgate Pictures, Inc. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 124	Better? It has some extra features and XLRs but is the same camera with a different label.

December 7th, 2004, 08:59 AM	#14
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	For a detailed list of differences between the FX1 and Z1U, see my extensive Sony HDV Comparison Chart here. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

December 7th, 2004, 12:51 PM	#15
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Moore : We're talking about the Z1 or the FX1? The Z1 is supposed to be better. -->>> We don't know that -- there was some speculation that maybe the Z1 handled CF24 differently than the FX1 did. Chris Hurd assures us that there is no difference in that regard, so no, the Z1 would be no better. But, until there's a final finished product on store shelves, anything could happen. I sincerely hope (for the Z1's sake, and for the sake of all the people who spend $5000 to $6000 on it) that the CF24 mode is somehow improved on the Z1.