Time-lapse Sunrise at DVinfo.net

Bill Hamell · June 21st, 2005, 05:20 PM

Has anyone shot one of these?
Perhaps I should shot it real time and do the time-lapse in post?

If you have shot one, how did you expose for it?
One set exposure or vary it over the course of the sunrise?

Any help will be appreciated.

Thank you.

Mr. Bill

Boyd Ostroff · June 21st, 2005, 07:40 PM

I have shot quite a number of sunsets. I've always locked the exposure since that seems to give a better effect (it should get darker as the sun sets). I've also added multiple ND filters in addition the the camera's internal. Warning! You could damage your camera: make sure you have adequate filtration not to burn the CCD's. I like using external ND filters. Look through them: if the sun hurts your eyes then it may hurt your camera!

By far the best way to do this is just rolling continuous tape. I was only looking for about 30 to 60 seconds of finished video, so it can easily fit on a tape in real time. If shooting at max telephoto you'll only need maybe 15 minutes of footage. I've shot them in a variety of ways, wide angle lens, wide shots, telephoto shots and also using a 2x teleconverter. Some of these were used as 44' wide projections in one of our operas:

http://tech.operaphilly.com/sets/trovatore/pix/1/08.pdf

Don't use the time lapse feature on your camera, it won't give you smooth motion for a short term event like a sunrise/sunset.

Pete Bauer · June 21st, 2005, 07:59 PM

Unless you specifically KNOW that it is solar-safe, DO NOT EVER look through any glass, filter, lens (including direct-view cameras such SLRs), or prism directly at the sun, arc welders, or other similarly very bright objects. It may BLIND you permanently! Depending on the circumstances, it can happen in a split second.

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclips...lp/safety.html

If you're judging your ND filters and overall exposure by looking at your monitor, there is no problem because you're viewing a CCD image, not the actual source...of course, as Boyd pointed out, direct sun exposure can damage a CCD.

Now, get on out there and record those beautiful sunrises and sunsets...and make sure you'll be able to view them in your home theater later! ;-)

Pete Wilie · June 21st, 2005, 11:19 PM

Excellent point Pete. Safety should always come first.

So how do we determine whether or not the sun will damage the CCDs?
Is it just a matter of adding enough external ND filters? If so, how many?

Bill Hamell · June 24th, 2005, 07:43 AM

Boyd,

Thank you for your response.

How much external ND do you use?
The reason I ask is I will need to purchase it for the shot.
I have never needed more than the internal ND and the PL filter I currently have.

I will be doing two scenes one will be the time-lapse alone and the second will be the sunrise with Dressage action in silhouette.
On camera 1, I want the complete sunrise and on camera 2, the action shots.
That way I can shoot both scenes that I need on one day.

I had it in my mind to shoot real time glad you confirmed that.

Thank you for the image that’s what I am looking for.

Pete,

Thank you for the concern I have done sun spot still photography before so I know from where you speak.

Thank you both again.

Mr. Bill

Boyd Ostroff · June 24th, 2005, 04:48 PM

I'm never clear on how the different companies rate their ND filters, it isn't consistent. I believe a combined a ND6 and ND2. Basically it was one very dark one, and another medium one :-) I just used what I had handy though, and didn't do anything scientific. I think I also ended up throwing on a polarizer to cut the light down even more.

Bill Hamell · June 24th, 2005, 06:43 PM

Boyd,

Thank you again.
Here is a little guide, these are the comparisons I know of.

ND.3 (ND2) (exposure adjustment = 1 stop; )

ND.6 (ND4) (exposure adjustment = 2 stops;)

ND.9 (ND8) (exposure adjustment = 3 stops; )

ND1.8 (exposure adjustment = 6 stops)

ND3.0 (exposure adjustment = 10 stops)

ND4.0 (exposure adjustment = 13 stops)

ND6.0 (exposure adjustment = 20 stops)

Mr. Bill

Eric Stemen · June 24th, 2005, 10:21 PM

Whenever i have done this, i just put the camcorder on full auto with the on board time lapse function. Works smooth enough.

June 21st, 2005, 05:20 PM	#1
Bill Hamell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mystic Ct. Posts: 477	Time-lapse Sunrise Has anyone shot one of these? Perhaps I should shot it real time and do the time-lapse in post? If you have shot one, how did you expose for it? One set exposure or vary it over the course of the sunrise? Any help will be appreciated. Thank you. Mr. Bill __________________ Cinematographers Bring Shadow To Light

June 21st, 2005, 07:59 PM	#3
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Critical Safety Tip Unless you specifically KNOW that it is solar-safe, DO NOT EVER look through any glass, filter, lens (including direct-view cameras such SLRs), or prism directly at the sun, arc welders, or other similarly very bright objects. It may BLIND you permanently! Depending on the circumstances, it can happen in a split second. http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclips...lp/safety.html If you're judging your ND filters and overall exposure by looking at your monitor, there is no problem because you're viewing a CCD image, not the actual source...of course, as Boyd pointed out, direct sun exposure can damage a CCD. Now, get on out there and record those beautiful sunrises and sunsets...and make sure you'll be able to view them in your home theater later! ;-) __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

June 24th, 2005, 07:43 AM	#5
Bill Hamell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mystic Ct. Posts: 477	Boyd, Thank you for your response. How much external ND do you use? The reason I ask is I will need to purchase it for the shot. I have never needed more than the internal ND and the PL filter I currently have. I will be doing two scenes one will be the time-lapse alone and the second will be the sunrise with Dressage action in silhouette. On camera 1, I want the complete sunrise and on camera 2, the action shots. That way I can shoot both scenes that I need on one day. I had it in my mind to shoot real time glad you confirmed that. Thank you for the image that’s what I am looking for. Pete, Thank you for the concern I have done sun spot still photography before so I know from where you speak. Thank you both again. Mr. Bill __________________ Cinematographers Bring Shadow To Light

June 24th, 2005, 06:43 PM	#7
Bill Hamell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mystic Ct. Posts: 477	Boyd, Thank you again. Here is a little guide, these are the comparisons I know of. ND.3 (ND2) (exposure adjustment = 1 stop; ) ND.6 (ND4) (exposure adjustment = 2 stops;) ND.9 (ND8) (exposure adjustment = 3 stops; ) ND1.8 (exposure adjustment = 6 stops) ND3.0 (exposure adjustment = 10 stops) ND4.0 (exposure adjustment = 13 stops) ND6.0 (exposure adjustment = 20 stops) Mr. Bill __________________ Cinematographers Bring Shadow To Light

June 21st, 2005, 07:40 PM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	I have shot quite a number of sunsets. I've always locked the exposure since that seems to give a better effect (it should get darker as the sun sets). I've also added multiple ND filters in addition the the camera's internal. Warning! You could damage your camera: make sure you have adequate filtration not to burn the CCD's. I like using external ND filters. Look through them: if the sun hurts your eyes then it may hurt your camera! By far the best way to do this is just rolling continuous tape. I was only looking for about 30 to 60 seconds of finished video, so it can easily fit on a tape in real time. If shooting at max telephoto you'll only need maybe 15 minutes of footage. I've shot them in a variety of ways, wide angle lens, wide shots, telephoto shots and also using a 2x teleconverter. Some of these were used as 44' wide projections in one of our operas: http://tech.operaphilly.com/sets/trovatore/pix/1/08.pdf Don't use the time lapse feature on your camera, it won't give you smooth motion for a short term event like a sunrise/sunset.

June 21st, 2005, 11:19 PM	#4
Pete Wilie Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 331	Excellent point Pete. Safety should always come first. So how do we determine whether or not the sun will damage the CCDs? Is it just a matter of adding enough external ND filters? If so, how many?

June 24th, 2005, 04:48 PM	#6
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	I'm never clear on how the different companies rate their ND filters, it isn't consistent. I believe a combined a ND6 and ND2. Basically it was one very dark one, and another medium one :-) I just used what I had handy though, and didn't do anything scientific. I think I also ended up throwing on a polarizer to cut the light down even more.

June 24th, 2005, 10:21 PM	#8
Eric Stemen Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 378	Whenever i have done this, i just put the camcorder on full auto with the on board time lapse function. Works smooth enough.