v/s Canon XLH1 at DVinfo.net

Ram Ganesh · April 24th, 2006, 04:53 PM

Now that it does HD-SDI... what is the difference between HD200/250 and XL-H1?

720p vs 1080i
both do 24p (24f)
both HDV
both have HD-SDI
both interchangeble lenses
6GOP/12GOP vs 15 GOP
$8K vs $9K

what else is the difference?

Pete Bauer · April 24th, 2006, 05:08 PM

At NAB today, a JVC rep said that for 60p, they will be using a 12 frame GOP to fit the data in the same 19Mb/sec. Not sure about other modes.

Stephen L. Noe · April 24th, 2006, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ram Ganesh

Now that it does HD-SDI... what is the difference between HD200/250 and XL-H1?

720p vs 1080i
both do 24p (24f)
both HDV
both have HD-SDI
both interchangeble lenses
6GOP/12GOP vs 15 GOP
$8K vs $9K

what else is the difference?

Len's options at this point (I'd think) as well as 24p. Also on the workflow side the JVC workflow includes a dedicated deck and the ProHD product line is growing. There are quite a few things that make ProHD attractive over and above the camera itself.

Steven Thomas · April 24th, 2006, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

At NAB today, a JVC rep said that for 60p, they will be using a 12 frame GOP to fit the data in the same 19Mb/sec. Not sure about other modes.

You'd think they would utilize the full 25Mb/sec.

Tip McPartland · April 24th, 2006, 05:36 PM

Has anyone heard what the "dedicated deck" story is for 60p? Has one been announced -- or at least hinted at?

Tip

Stephen L. Noe · April 24th, 2006, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tip McPartland

Has anyone heard what the "dedicated deck" story is for 60p? Has one been announced -- or at least hinted at?

Tip

You'll be interested to find out that I've been dumping 60p sequences to the HD-100 for some time. It dumps down at 59.94 and captures right back at 59.94 although I have not seen the HDV60p on my screen as Tim Dashwood did. Nevertheless it has been working. This makes me think the existing deck would work.

Jeff Morrissette · April 24th, 2006, 06:53 PM

It has a 60p light on it. So yes I belive it should. The only catch is no SDI and (i could misunderstand this) but I think the component can only do SD video.

As excited as I am about my jvc imvestment I'm kinda disappointed about the canon. I"ve always loved the canon's back to the A-1 digital and to have no future announcement of 60p, no deck and a high price tag. I'm really disappointed....I've been looking for an excuse to switch or invest in a h1 for interlace shoots but I am so happy with jvc 720p I don't see buying one in the future.

I really like the design and feel of the h1/xl-1 but if the guts inside don't have what I need it's of no real use but a toy. I hope they come out with a 720p model to compete.

Carl Hicks · April 25th, 2006, 12:56 AM

Hi Ram,

The GY-HD250 has some major advantage over the XLH1. Here are a few:

HD-SDI out, WITH imbedded audio

Lenses - 2 lens choices available now, and 6 by the end of this year. At NAB, we are announcing 3 new Fujinon lenses, and one new Canon lens. Plus, we have all of hose adaptors available: 1/2" bayonet, 2/3" bayonet, 35mm prime, and 16mm price.

Image inversion - to correct for use of film lenses that invert the image.

TRUE Progressive scan, at your choice of frame rates: 24, 25, 30, 50, and 60

True, broadcast type studio package option, with a camera "sled housing", studio viewfinder, rack-mount CCU

There are more advantages, but these are some of the major ones.

Regards, Carl

Brian Luce · April 25th, 2006, 04:04 AM

will the lenses and adaptors for hd250 also work with the hd100?

Carl Hicks · April 25th, 2006, 08:26 AM

Yes, the lens mounts on the GYHD100, GYHD200, and GYHD250 are all the same.

Guy Barwood · April 25th, 2006, 09:31 AM

Quote:

and one new Canon lens

Wow, I didn't expect Canon just help out the HD100 just yet, sort of works against their own little cam in a way.

Any way to find out more about these lens options? Just curious on what they are and where the price will land.

Pete Bauer · April 25th, 2006, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

You'd think they would utilize the full 25Mb/sec.

Unfortunately, they did specifically say that it would be 19mb/sec, 12-frame GOP for the 60p. Don't know...but perhaps they are constrained by an HDV standard that says 720p=19mb/sec and 1080i=25mb/sec? Just a guess. Any HDV standards experts know about that?

I'm sure they're doing their best to optimize the codec but since 60p would be used for high-motion images, I guess when the camera hits the streets we'll have to see how the longer GOP really does with that much data.

Bob Fierce · April 25th, 2006, 09:58 AM

Carl-
We're about to replace our studio cameras and I had a couple of questions about the studio housing. Since we'll be iso'ing each camera via hard drive, can the camera be mounted in the housing with the hard drive attached to the back of the camera? The JVC drawing of the housing and HD250 shows a large 4X3 CRT viewfinder mounted on top which would throw off the center of gravity and require a beefier tripod head, can that be replaced with a 16X9 LCD? What about the CCU, does it have an HD-SDI input? Thanks.

Carl Hicks · April 25th, 2006, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

Unfortunately, they did specifically say that it would be 19mb/sec, 12-frame GOP for the 60p. Don't know...but perhaps they are constrained by an HDV standard that says 720p=19mb/sec and 1080i=25mb/sec? Just a guess. Any HDV standards experts know about that?

I'm sure they're doing their best to optimize the codec but since 60p would be used for high-motion images, I guess when the camera hits the streets we'll have to see how the longer GOP really does with that much data.

Keeping within the 19 mb/sec HDV1 standard was a planned decision.
Since the introduction of the GYHD100U, we started hearing from some prominent customers that they loved the camera, but they wanted to also have a 60P mode. And, they wanted this feature without an increase in bandwidth. Our "magical" MPEG engineers have done just that. The GYHD200 and GYHD250 cameras will employ a new MPEG encoder chip that can now encode the HD signal into a MPEG-2 Transport stream at 720P/60, in the same 19.2 mb/sec bandwidth. This is a major achievement for our factory, and we are very excited about it.

In our booth here at NAB, we have sample HDSDI footage running through this new encoder circuit, and then being decoded back to HDSDI. The orgional HDSDI and the encoded/decoded HDSDI are then connected to two side-by-side DTV1710CGU HD monitors. And the results are pretty amazing. You can't see the difference between the raw HDSDI and the encoded/decoded signal. Some HDVinfo.net members have seen this demonstration, and I believe can verify this. This new encoder chip will be used in the GY-HD200U and GY-HD250U.

This new encoder will also be used in a stand-alone Encoder/Decoder, called the SA-DV50U. This box will have HDSDI, Analog HD, and HDV input, and it will output HDSDI, Analog HD, and HDV

Carl Hicks · April 25th, 2006, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Fierce

Carl-
We're about to replace our studio cameras and I had a couple of questions about the studio housing. Since we'll be iso'ing each camera via hard drive, can the camera be mounted in the housing with the hard drive attached to the back of the camera? The JVC drawing of the housing and HD250 shows a large 4X3 CRT viewfinder mounted on top which would throw off the center of gravity and require a beefier tripod head, can that be replaced with a 16X9 LCD? What about the CCU, does it have an HD-SDI input? Thanks.

Bob,

The final design of the housing has not been set yet. I will remind our factory engineers to remember the DRHD100 in their housing design.

The Viewfinder may be a LCD unit. I would be surprised if it's a CRT unit.

The CCU that will be used at this time is existing Standard Def. RM-P210U. This unit has SD outputs only. So, a separate BNC coax cable will need to be connected to the camera head for HD or SD SDI. So, to each camera site you would run a 26 pin CCU cable, and a coax cable if SDI or HDSDI are needed.

Future products or accessories may incorporate the SDI/HDSDI signal into a single cable solution, but not right away.

Regards, Carl

April 24th, 2006, 04:53 PM	#1
Ram Ganesh Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 175	v/s Canon XLH1 Now that it does HD-SDI... what is the difference between HD200/250 and XL-H1? 720p vs 1080i both do 24p (24f) both HDV both have HD-SDI both interchangeble lenses 6GOP/12GOP vs 15 GOP $8K vs $9K what else is the difference?

April 24th, 2006, 05:08 PM	#2
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	At NAB today, a JVC rep said that for 60p, they will be using a 12 frame GOP to fit the data in the same 19Mb/sec. Not sure about other modes. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

April 24th, 2006, 05:36 PM	#5
Tip McPartland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crestline, California Posts: 351	Dedicated deck? Has anyone heard what the "dedicated deck" story is for 60p? Has one been announced -- or at least hinted at? Tip

April 25th, 2006, 12:56 AM	#8
Carl Hicks JVC America Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 516	GYHD250 vs XLH1 Hi Ram, The GY-HD250 has some major advantage over the XLH1. Here are a few: HD-SDI out, WITH imbedded audio Lenses - 2 lens choices available now, and 6 by the end of this year. At NAB, we are announcing 3 new Fujinon lenses, and one new Canon lens. Plus, we have all of hose adaptors available: 1/2" bayonet, 2/3" bayonet, 35mm prime, and 16mm price. Image inversion - to correct for use of film lenses that invert the image. TRUE Progressive scan, at your choice of frame rates: 24, 25, 30, 50, and 60 True, broadcast type studio package option, with a camera "sled housing", studio viewfinder, rack-mount CCU There are more advantages, but these are some of the major ones. Regards, Carl

April 25th, 2006, 08:26 AM	#10
Carl Hicks JVC America Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 516	Lens Mounts Yes, the lens mounts on the GYHD100, GYHD200, and GYHD250 are all the same.

April 24th, 2006, 06:53 PM	#7
Jeff Morrissette Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: venice, ca Posts: 83	It has a 60p light on it. So yes I belive it should. The only catch is no SDI and (i could misunderstand this) but I think the component can only do SD video. As excited as I am about my jvc imvestment I'm kinda disappointed about the canon. I"ve always loved the canon's back to the A-1 digital and to have no future announcement of 60p, no deck and a high price tag. I'm really disappointed....I've been looking for an excuse to switch or invest in a h1 for interlace shoots but I am so happy with jvc 720p I don't see buying one in the future. I really like the design and feel of the h1/xl-1 but if the guts inside don't have what I need it's of no real use but a toy. I hope they come out with a 720p model to compete.

April 25th, 2006, 04:04 AM	#9
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	will the lenses and adaptors for hd250 also work with the hd100?

April 25th, 2006, 09:58 AM	#13
Bob Fierce New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 19	Carl- We're about to replace our studio cameras and I had a couple of questions about the studio housing. Since we'll be iso'ing each camera via hard drive, can the camera be mounted in the housing with the hard drive attached to the back of the camera? The JVC drawing of the housing and HD250 shows a large 4X3 CRT viewfinder mounted on top which would throw off the center of gravity and require a beefier tripod head, can that be replaced with a 16X9 LCD? What about the CCU, does it have an HD-SDI input? Thanks.