Aiming at Saturn's Rings at DVinfo.net

Chris Hurd · June 3rd, 2006, 12:43 AM

This target was not nearly as easy as shooting the moons of Jupiter. As you can see from the three included blow-ups, the reach just isn't quite there, the rings just barely resolve. Anyway here are a variety of shutter speeds... exposure was as open as it would go at this focal length. The better shots have a shutter speed of 1/30th. And this is how I'm spending Friday night, while the wife is at a horse show and the rest of the world is out partying... man I feel old! But the point is, yes that's the Rings of Saturn from an XL H1, the stock 20x HD lens and the 1.6x extender.

Charles Perkins · June 3rd, 2006, 01:28 AM

awsome .

stil though, its just a yellow dot on the pics.

Robert Knecht Schmidt · June 3rd, 2006, 01:51 AM

Thanks for posting, Chris! How exciting!

Pete Bauer · June 3rd, 2006, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

And this is how I'm spending Friday night, while the wife is at a horse show and the rest of the world is out partying... man I feel old!

But no hangover! Again, as with the Jupiter shots, I'm surprised at what the stock camera + 1.6 extender can do. I wonder how the EF adaptor and some long L glass would do? Maybe we don't need to service Hubble after all. ;-)

Meryem Ersoz · June 3rd, 2006, 08:00 AM

bring that badboy to colorado, and i can mount up the sigma 300-800mm lens, plus extenders. we'll be walking on saturn!

Chris Hurd · June 3rd, 2006, 08:02 AM

Better yet, Meryem -- win that free H1 in Littleton next week and do it yourself!

Meryem Ersoz · June 3rd, 2006, 08:09 AM

wishing and hoping! that'd be a big fish to reel in!

Chris Hurd · June 6th, 2006, 12:30 AM

This time with an odd mix, XL H1 plus 1.6x extender plus EF adapter plus 70-300mm Sigma telephoto zoom. Very difficult set-up, very touchy to focus, and when the target is only slightly out of focus, it disappears from view completely. Plus, the more the image is magnified, the more the speed of the Earth's rotation is amplified, making the target appear to move out of the field of view very quickly! A little bit better in terms of results though.

Meryem Ersoz · June 6th, 2006, 07:12 AM

what i wanna know is...how are you managing to find saturn and get your camera focused on it???

Chris Hurd · June 6th, 2006, 08:36 AM

Finding Saturn with the naked eye is easy... it's in the western sky shortly after sundown. Just locate the easily found Gemini twins, Castor and Pollux, and go up and to the left. Saturn is the bright yellow "star" nearby (now look back along the ecliptic plane toward the southeast for the brightest object in the sky other than the moon, which will be the first "star" of the evening... that's Jupiter). Look for Mars also, bright and red in the western sky not far from Saturn.

Actually getting Saturn into the H1's field of view is another trick though. I start with the stock 20x HD lens, set critical focus to infinity, go to full wide and max aperture, low shutter and +12db gain. These settings cause the stellar objects to easily appear in the EVF, artificially brightened. Once aimed at Saturn, zoom in full tele, losing several f/stops of course. Make sue the planet is centered in the middle of the field of view. Then *quickly* and *carefully* power down to standby, change to the EF lens combo set to full wide, and power back up. If you're not fast enough, your target will have drifted out of view due to the speed of the Earth's rotation. If you bump the camera, you'll have to start all over again.

Rock the focus on the EF lens and you should see Saturn snap into view. Zoom in to full tele and adjust focus again. You'll have to re-frame a few times while setting up the image controls for the shot, due to the speed of the drift. Patience and diligence (not to mention better glass) should produce shots of the planet far superior to the ones I've posted above.

Kolbola Kertiember · June 10th, 2006, 02:57 PM

Yes, it's a big thing, a HD camcorder with 3 CCD and changeable lenses and not a camera with single Bayer mosaic chip. Strange, but this is the best way to the real astronomic or high altitude airplane spotting.

The next step is a XL H1 with a reflex mirror.
Please try this at home!

Chris Hurd · June 10th, 2006, 03:23 PM

Well I think the biggest difference between this procedure, using the XL H1 video camcorder, compared to traditional astrophotography is not about 3CCD vs. single CMOS. Instead, it's the fact that the XL H1 has a maximum shutter drag of 1/4 or 1/3 second as opposed to the very long exposures which can be achieved with still photography cameras. I'm using a video camcorder on an alt-azimuth mount and taking a quick snapshot. Usually in astrophotography you've got the camera on a clock-driven equatorial mount, tracking a stellar object for long periods of time with the shutter held open to gather more light, producing images that we can't see with the naked eye. We can't do that with the XL H1 or any conventional DV or HD video camcorder. But I think it's pretty cool that we can get at least some kind of a result using a tool that was never designed for this specific purpose.

I see this is your first post -- welcome to DV Info Net,

Peter Ferling · June 10th, 2006, 07:10 PM

Chris, arn't there consumerish tracking telescopes the use PC software to track these planets? I seem to remember years back in a science mag, (Omni I think it was) had an article about one. Anyway, just imagine piggybacking a cam on one of those?

Good fun stuff. Now I'd like to see comets, or watching the launch and orbit of a space shuttle. That would be neat.

Tony Davies-Patrick · June 11th, 2006, 10:19 AM

On the subject of the solar system...During one of the nights at a lake in France last week, the air was clear and the moon bright, as it slid slowly across the night sky.

I rigged up an XL2 + 600mm ED-IF Nikkor on a sturdy tripod and obtained some awesome moon footage - my best yet. Watching the footage on 16:9 widescreen at home felt almost like I was walking on the surface, with every crater shown in stark relief as the partial moon crept slowly across the frame. The night chorus of frogs, crickets, coots and nightjar added extra atmosphere, and I can't wait to add some background music to the storyline as part of the main DVD.

Kolbola Kertiember · June 11th, 2006, 11:42 AM

Hi!
In the winter of 2000, I try to show the Saturn's ring and the Jupiter's moons to my friend with my selfmade-tunning russian tourist lens telescope.
The result of my work was an almost two times bigger magnification, but the array goes smaller, the picture goes darker and my tripod was very poor quality.
So it was very cold and my show failed. My friends could not wait for me.

So it was 6 years ago and I remember, my dream at this time was a real time connection with a wide screen notebook, and useing some high resolution thing.
So this wishlist in today is not a dream for more.
The next: XL H1 with 8/500 reflex mirror and the subject is a high altitude airplane...

June 3rd, 2006, 12:43 AM	#1
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Aiming at Saturn's Rings This target was not nearly as easy as shooting the moons of Jupiter. As you can see from the three included blow-ups, the reach just isn't quite there, the rings just barely resolve. Anyway here are a variety of shutter speeds... exposure was as open as it would go at this focal length. The better shots have a shutter speed of 1/30th. And this is how I'm spending Friday night, while the wife is at a horse show and the rest of the world is out partying... man I feel old! But the point is, yes that's the Rings of Saturn from an XL H1, the stock 20x HD lens and the 1.6x extender. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 3rd, 2006, 01:51 AM	#3
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	Thanks for posting, Chris! How exciting! __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

June 3rd, 2006, 08:02 AM	#6
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Better yet, Meryem -- win that free H1 in Littleton next week and do it yourself! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 6th, 2006, 12:30 AM	#8
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Another stab at Saturn... This time with an odd mix, XL H1 plus 1.6x extender plus EF adapter plus 70-300mm Sigma telephoto zoom. Very difficult set-up, very touchy to focus, and when the target is only slightly out of focus, it disappears from view completely. Plus, the more the image is magnified, the more the speed of the Earth's rotation is amplified, making the target appear to move out of the field of view very quickly! A little bit better in terms of results though. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 6th, 2006, 08:36 AM	#10
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Finding Saturn with the naked eye is easy... it's in the western sky shortly after sundown. Just locate the easily found Gemini twins, Castor and Pollux, and go up and to the left. Saturn is the bright yellow "star" nearby (now look back along the ecliptic plane toward the southeast for the brightest object in the sky other than the moon, which will be the first "star" of the evening... that's Jupiter). Look for Mars also, bright and red in the western sky not far from Saturn. Actually getting Saturn into the H1's field of view is another trick though. I start with the stock 20x HD lens, set critical focus to infinity, go to full wide and max aperture, low shutter and +12db gain. These settings cause the stellar objects to easily appear in the EVF, artificially brightened. Once aimed at Saturn, zoom in full tele, losing several f/stops of course. Make sue the planet is centered in the middle of the field of view. Then quickly and carefully power down to standby, change to the EF lens combo set to full wide, and power back up. If you're not fast enough, your target will have drifted out of view due to the speed of the Earth's rotation. If you bump the camera, you'll have to start all over again. Rock the focus on the EF lens and you should see Saturn snap into view. Zoom in to full tele and adjust focus again. You'll have to re-frame a few times while setting up the image controls for the shot, due to the speed of the drift. Patience and diligence (not to mention better glass) should produce shots of the planet far superior to the ones I've posted above. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 3rd, 2006, 01:28 AM	#2
Charles Perkins Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: paris, fr Posts: 102	awsome . stil though, its just a yellow dot on the pics.

June 3rd, 2006, 08:00 AM	#5
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	bring that badboy to colorado, and i can mount up the sigma 300-800mm lens, plus extenders. we'll be walking on saturn!

June 3rd, 2006, 08:09 AM	#7
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	wishing and hoping! that'd be a big fish to reel in!

June 6th, 2006, 07:12 AM	#9
Meryem Ersoz Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 3,015	what i wanna know is...how are you managing to find saturn and get your camera focused on it???

June 10th, 2006, 02:57 PM	#11
Kolbola Kertiember Tourist Join Date: May 2006 Location: Budapest Posts: 2	Yes, it's a big thing, a HD camcorder with 3 CCD and changeable lenses and not a camera with single Bayer mosaic chip. Strange, but this is the best way to the real astronomic or high altitude airplane spotting. The next step is a XL H1 with a reflex mirror. Please try this at home!

June 10th, 2006, 03:23 PM	#12
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Well I think the biggest difference between this procedure, using the XL H1 video camcorder, compared to traditional astrophotography is not about 3CCD vs. single CMOS. Instead, it's the fact that the XL H1 has a maximum shutter drag of 1/4 or 1/3 second as opposed to the very long exposures which can be achieved with still photography cameras. I'm using a video camcorder on an alt-azimuth mount and taking a quick snapshot. Usually in astrophotography you've got the camera on a clock-driven equatorial mount, tracking a stellar object for long periods of time with the shutter held open to gather more light, producing images that we can't see with the naked eye. We can't do that with the XL H1 or any conventional DV or HD video camcorder. But I think it's pretty cool that we can get at least some kind of a result using a tool that was never designed for this specific purpose. I see this is your first post -- welcome to DV Info Net, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 10th, 2006, 07:10 PM	#13
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	Chris, arn't there consumerish tracking telescopes the use PC software to track these planets? I seem to remember years back in a science mag, (Omni I think it was) had an article about one. Anyway, just imagine piggybacking a cam on one of those? Good fun stuff. Now I'd like to see comets, or watching the launch and orbit of a space shuttle. That would be neat. __________________ Pete Ferling http://ferling.net It's never a mistake if you learn something new from it. -------------------------------------------

June 11th, 2006, 10:19 AM	#14
Tony Davies-Patrick Trustee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Worldwide Posts: 1,589	On the subject of the solar system...During one of the nights at a lake in France last week, the air was clear and the moon bright, as it slid slowly across the night sky. I rigged up an XL2 + 600mm ED-IF Nikkor on a sturdy tripod and obtained some awesome moon footage - my best yet. Watching the footage on 16:9 widescreen at home felt almost like I was walking on the surface, with every crater shown in stark relief as the partial moon crept slowly across the frame. The night chorus of frogs, crickets, coots and nightjar added extra atmosphere, and I can't wait to add some background music to the storyline as part of the main DVD. __________________ www.WILDCARP.com www.NIKON.me.uk

June 11th, 2006, 11:42 AM	#15
Kolbola Kertiember Tourist Join Date: May 2006 Location: Budapest Posts: 2	Hi! In the winter of 2000, I try to show the Saturn's ring and the Jupiter's moons to my friend with my selfmade-tunning russian tourist lens telescope. The result of my work was an almost two times bigger magnification, but the array goes smaller, the picture goes darker and my tripod was very poor quality. So it was very cold and my show failed. My friends could not wait for me. So it was 6 years ago and I remember, my dream at this time was a real time connection with a wide screen notebook, and useing some high resolution thing. So this wishlist in today is not a dream for more. The next: XL H1 with 8/500 reflex mirror and the subject is a high altitude airplane...