So...with experience, what is the best workflow with FCP ? at DVinfo.net

Antoine Fabi · June 24th, 2006, 12:50 PM

Hi,

some of you have good experience with the XLH1.
What is the best capture/editing workflow with Final Cut Pro ?

thanks

Barlow Elton · June 24th, 2006, 02:59 PM

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....40&postcount=7

Ed Moore · June 25th, 2006, 07:13 AM

...assuming you need to shoot 24F. Otherwise just use the HDV capture and device control presets in FCP, which is much much easier. If you use the HDV50/60i settings you retain timecode and can recapture at a later date - I'm not sure whether the DVHSCap/Streamclip method allows this.

I haven't tried this next method, but as far as I can see the ultimate workflow would be to use a Blackmagic or Kona card with HD-SDI input and capture from that into FCP using the PhotoJPEG codec. This avoids all the HDV-in-post unpleasantness entirely, and gets you into the PhotoJPEG codec which I am reliably informed via the posts of Barlow Elton up there is not only very good quality but downconverts beautifully into a 4:2:2 SD image - great for DVD compression.

Yours still-learningly,

Ed

Antoine Fabi · June 25th, 2006, 01:56 PM

thanks to both of you.

Barlow Elton · June 25th, 2006, 05:38 PM

Unless you're capturing the uncompressed SDI--live camera head--output, there really is no reason to capture through SDI. The firewire/DVHSCap route gives you an easy 24p workflow. With SDI output you have to capture the analog audio out AND use a pulldown removal method for true 24p editing. For a mixed 1080i timeline (24F and 1080i material) SDI is a quicker route, but you still have to worry about proper audio capture.

For HDV compressed material there is no advantage to SDI capture. The quality is the same.

Ed Moore · June 29th, 2006, 04:25 PM

I'm presuming all that just isn't necessary for the 25F mode on my PAL H1, as I have no problems capturing straight into FCP with footage shot in that mode.

What I don't quite get, and perhaps you could point me in the right direction, is the 'best' (in terms of optimum image quality) method of ending up with a timeline in the PhotoJPEG codec - I can only seem to capture in the HDV50i codec - I can immediately put this into a PhotoJPEG codec and FCP automatically adjusts the settings in the Motion tab of the viewer window to change the PAR, etc, but then I have to render the whole thing through before I get real time playback.

Is there a trick to getting FCP to transcode the incoming-over-firewire HDV format into PhotoJPEG as it captures?

Warm regards,

Ed

Steve Rosen · June 29th, 2006, 05:00 PM

Antoine: Many here have worked out the best work-around-flow for 24f w/ FCP which, to be honest, has limited utility unless you're planning a transfer to film - although I do like the "filmic" way it looks, without a deck or full software support it just isn't practical or advisable, especially if your working with a lot of footage - in my case it's over 80 tapes for my current documentary...

There still seems to be some question about the best route with 1080i... I, for one, am capturing via firewire from a Sony deck, using a BlackMagic card for viewing on an external monitor, and editing in FCP exactly as I would with DV.. To my eye, the edited material looks pretty much identical to the source when played on a 42" plasma screen.. I have applied color correction and tested many other plug-in filters, and the codec seems to handle it all just fine - no glaring artifacts...

I, too, would be interested in what might be considered the "ideal" for handling 1080i HDV in the FCP environment though...

Barlow Elton · June 30th, 2006, 02:27 AM

Ed,

If you have a fast G5, you can just edit in a 1080/50i HDV timeline for 25F since they're both 25fps. When you're satisfied with the final edit, you can switch the timeline to a better codec like Sheer or PhotoJPEG or even 10bit Uncompressed (for short work) and render out the final product as a 25p HD QT. Just change the sequence settings to your desired codec and render away. I recommend a full-raster square pixel format like PhotoJPEG or Sheer. If your project is relatively simple edits, you can just output your HDV sequence back to tape with little to no loss.

It's the combo of extensive cc/filtering and the very lossy HDV codec that I don't like.

Johan Forssblad · December 30th, 2007, 07:25 AM

Hi,
When shooting PAL 25F with the XL H1:
What is the difference if I select a FCP timeline HDV 1080i50 or 1080p25 to ingest 25F recorded material?

Is there any pros and cons to observe?

I wish you all a peaceful and happy new year!

Joachim Hoge · January 1st, 2008, 11:00 AM

I´m not sure, I always used 1080p25, because that setting was the first I manage to work for me.
It would make a difference if you are going for a 35mm print, otherwise I don´t think you will see a big difference on the small screen.

June 24th, 2006, 12:50 PM	#1
Antoine Fabi Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: sherbrooke (Quebec) Canada Posts: 108	So...with experience, what is the best workflow with FCP ? Hi, some of you have good experience with the XLH1. What is the best capture/editing workflow with Final Cut Pro ? thanks

June 25th, 2006, 07:13 AM	#3
Ed Moore Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 35	...assuming you need to shoot 24F. Otherwise just use the HDV capture and device control presets in FCP, which is much much easier. If you use the HDV50/60i settings you retain timecode and can recapture at a later date - I'm not sure whether the DVHSCap/Streamclip method allows this. I haven't tried this next method, but as far as I can see the ultimate workflow would be to use a Blackmagic or Kona card with HD-SDI input and capture from that into FCP using the PhotoJPEG codec. This avoids all the HDV-in-post unpleasantness entirely, and gets you into the PhotoJPEG codec which I am reliably informed via the posts of Barlow Elton up there is not only very good quality but downconverts beautifully into a 4:2:2 SD image - great for DVD compression. Yours still-learningly, Ed __________________ - Ed Moore DP

June 29th, 2006, 04:25 PM	#6
Ed Moore Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 35	I'm presuming all that just isn't necessary for the 25F mode on my PAL H1, as I have no problems capturing straight into FCP with footage shot in that mode. What I don't quite get, and perhaps you could point me in the right direction, is the 'best' (in terms of optimum image quality) method of ending up with a timeline in the PhotoJPEG codec - I can only seem to capture in the HDV50i codec - I can immediately put this into a PhotoJPEG codec and FCP automatically adjusts the settings in the Motion tab of the viewer window to change the PAR, etc, but then I have to render the whole thing through before I get real time playback. Is there a trick to getting FCP to transcode the incoming-over-firewire HDV format into PhotoJPEG as it captures? Warm regards, Ed __________________ - Ed Moore DP

December 30th, 2007, 07:25 AM	#9
Johan Forssblad Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vittsjö, SKÅNE, SWEDEN Posts: 266	25F with 50i or 25p timeline? Hi, When shooting PAL 25F with the XL H1: What is the difference if I select a FCP timeline HDV 1080i50 or 1080p25 to ingest 25F recorded material? Is there any pros and cons to observe? I wish you all a peaceful and happy new year!

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June 24th, 2006, 02:59 PM	#2
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....40&postcount=7

June 25th, 2006, 01:56 PM	#4
Antoine Fabi Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: sherbrooke (Quebec) Canada Posts: 108	thanks to both of you.

June 25th, 2006, 05:38 PM	#5
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Unless you're capturing the uncompressed SDI--live camera head--output, there really is no reason to capture through SDI. The firewire/DVHSCap route gives you an easy 24p workflow. With SDI output you have to capture the analog audio out AND use a pulldown removal method for true 24p editing. For a mixed 1080i timeline (24F and 1080i material) SDI is a quicker route, but you still have to worry about proper audio capture. For HDV compressed material there is no advantage to SDI capture. The quality is the same.

June 29th, 2006, 05:00 PM	#7
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	Antoine: Many here have worked out the best work-around-flow for 24f w/ FCP which, to be honest, has limited utility unless you're planning a transfer to film - although I do like the "filmic" way it looks, without a deck or full software support it just isn't practical or advisable, especially if your working with a lot of footage - in my case it's over 80 tapes for my current documentary... There still seems to be some question about the best route with 1080i... I, for one, am capturing via firewire from a Sony deck, using a BlackMagic card for viewing on an external monitor, and editing in FCP exactly as I would with DV.. To my eye, the edited material looks pretty much identical to the source when played on a 42" plasma screen.. I have applied color correction and tested many other plug-in filters, and the codec seems to handle it all just fine - no glaring artifacts... I, too, would be interested in what might be considered the "ideal" for handling 1080i HDV in the FCP environment though...

June 30th, 2006, 02:27 AM	#8
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	Ed, If you have a fast G5, you can just edit in a 1080/50i HDV timeline for 25F since they're both 25fps. When you're satisfied with the final edit, you can switch the timeline to a better codec like Sheer or PhotoJPEG or even 10bit Uncompressed (for short work) and render out the final product as a 25p HD QT. Just change the sequence settings to your desired codec and render away. I recommend a full-raster square pixel format like PhotoJPEG or Sheer. If your project is relatively simple edits, you can just output your HDV sequence back to tape with little to no loss. It's the combo of extensive cc/filtering and the very lossy HDV codec that I don't like.

January 1st, 2008, 11:00 AM	#10
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	I´m not sure, I always used 1080p25, because that setting was the first I manage to work for me. It would make a difference if you are going for a 35mm print, otherwise I don´t think you will see a big difference on the small screen.