Quality of SD shot by an HDV Camera

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson

... you would be SHOCKED how many people that think HD universally looks better than SD. Truth is, they have only ever seen crappy SD cameras.

Fair enough, but if you're going to bring $20+K SD cameras into the comparison it's only fair to also consider $20+K HD cameras. HD may not _always_ look better than SD, but given an equal chance it should.

[Ken Hodson]

HD lens's seem to carry a large price premium over an SD lens so it is hard to factor in an equal comparison on price alone.

[Ash Greyson]

Originally Posted by Eugene Kim

Hi Ash, any opinions on how the XL2 fitted with your old LetusXL 35mm adapter would fair against say an A1 or other HDV type camera stock?

This is assuming that you uprezzed the XL2/LetusXL footage using something like InstantHD? I'm sure the A1 would have the edge in terms of strictly crispness, et. all; but I'd hope that the XL2 shot progressive then converted might be comparable enough to get by for the time being.

I'm currently debating swapping over to the A1 or just keeping my XL2 and buying the LetusXL, while I look for a used H1 to upgrade to in the next few months or what not.

I'm specifically looking to use the LetusXL/XL2/InstantHD triad for a feature-length film my friend has coming up for San Diego/San Francisco in mid-December/January. I would like to upgrade to the A1 right now, but then I'd need to get a new production monitor, motion/jib/dolly shots, et. all, etc., and I'd rather just stick with what I have for right now if this trio could get close to something like what an A1 might produce...the whole turnover thing, just got to many other things on my mind right now to want to go through that given the proximity.

Thanks for any opinions.

The Letus, as all 35mm adapters do, will soften the image a little, as the XL2 is generallly very sharp it is not that big a deal. You might look into renting an XLH, it is terrific with the Letus. I have moved up to a different set-up now and use an SDX900 with adapter for SD 35mm DOF work and an HVX with adapter for 355mm DOF work (when a Vari is out of the budget)



ash =o)

[Stephen Armour]

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman

Stephen.. why do you belive you need Blu-ray etc for HDV storage? The data rates and file sizes are excatly the same as for DV. Also you don't need a mega PC to edit HDV. A correctly configured dual core PC with 2 gig of ram, a core duo laptop or macbook will all handle HDV without issue. These are all pretty standard spec machines these days.

I guess having the "blu-ray" backup was really just "wishlist thinking" on my part, Alister. You're right, as things can be backed up on HDD's or streaming tapes. The issues are really the same. Backing up ANY DV (or HDV) projects for longer term storage is always a pain, especially if you want to include everything (except preview files of course) to correct or use again later!

As to the dual core machine, you'd be surprised at how many people on this forum DON'T HAVE dual core machines yet! My old dual XEON (3.06Ghz) editor has 2 GB of memory and two RAID's (one a 10K Cheetah 320 SCSI array, the other a fast SATA RAID). I have to use Cineform Aspect to even be able to edit HDV. The issue for decently editing HDV boils down to needing at least a fast dualcore machine, really. Anything less is pretty much a joke.

The question I was addressing was the cost-benefit for going to HDV from existing DV investment. The bottom line is, DV done in letterbox format looks pretty much the same as HDV on non-HD TV, or even "panned and scanned" output.
(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_and_scan).

In many other (non-European/North American) countries, it will be a very long time (if every?) before HD TV takes over. The cost for upgrading existing facilities is astronomical, and many people just don't care to make the jump. Since this forum addresses users in many countries, it would seem appropriate to consider their reality as well.

I stand by what I said (minus the blu-ray part).

Stephen Armour - Brazil

[Matt Davis]

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson

you would be SHOCKED how many people that think HD universally looks better than SD.

I've been shot down in flames or at least 'backed up the bus' because of my preference for editing DSR570 DVCAM with quality glass over HDV that's edited HDV and post processed to SD, but it's true - the glass is where it's at.

I'll say that I still prefer HDV/Black Stretch/Underscan over my old PD150 footage, and that I can get faux 16mm footage from HDV that's edited natively, exported to a far less lossy codec, deinterlaced and made into SD.

I'll also say that most camera folks will spot HDV->SD simply because of lens artifacts (DoF, sharpening, etc).

I love my Z1 and I love HDV for what it's done for my business, but I'm switching to XDCAM-HD, 35mbps, and good glass as soon as my business can square the numbers. Right now, a DSR-570 with a 13k Fujinon continues to 'express water' all over my Z1's footage, HDV or not. I won't debate the fact that a DSR-570 may not get Z1 footage because it's big, heavy, obvious,

It's the lens.

PS: Acutally, it's also the format - I've been shooting chromakey at HDV then scaling down the composite to SD, which gives me really clean DigiBeta style keys, and it has to be said: PD150 chromakey sucks. DSR-570 chromakey with DoP lighting isn't bad so long as you've got top-of-the-line plug ins. But HDV via KeyLight to SD is in-the-zone. Awesome.

[Stephen Armour]

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss

PS: Actually, it's also the format - I've been shooting chromakey at HDV then scaling down the composite to SD, which gives me really clean DigiBeta style keys, and it has to be said: PD150 chromakey sucks. DSR-570 chromakey with DoP lighting isn't bad so long as you've got top-of-the-line plug ins. But HDV via KeyLight to SD is in-the-zone. Awesome.

Thanks Matt, you just answered a question we've had and haven't had time to test: does HDV give better chroma (especially when using something like Ultra 2) when downscaling to SD? Though we've decided to stay for a bit with SD for the most part, I've been debating using the HDV cams for chromakey and wondered if it was worth the hassle.

What do you use for your chromakey work?

Stephen Armour
Lion Cub Productions (ABE - Brazil)