Just configured my dual monitor setup tonight *pics included*- attn: Alex at DVinfo.net

Glen Elliott · August 21st, 2003, 08:18 PM

Just splurged a bit and picked myself up a couple of 17" NEC MultiSync 1765's. Was a little over a grand to do this but well worth it. I was sick of my 21" Sony Trinitron E540. I simply used a single AGP video card (Gforce 4 Ti4600) and configured it in Nvidia's Nview to set it up. Alex, you can even use a cheap Gforce MX to do the same thing (under $100)

I must say I'm really enjoying it. I was delighted the first time I opened up Photoshop...being able to move all my palets to one monitor while having a full monitor just for the image I'm editing.
Vegas was even better- I was able to span my timeline across both the monitors allowing me to better monitor the flow of my project visually. It also allowed me to un-nest a bunch of palettes and make them permanantly visible rather than tucked away.

I think it'll help my efficiency working on my NLE with so much real-estate. I no longer have to keep scrolling and/or zooming in and out of my timeline. It's also had a huge effect on my room temperature. It's about 3-4 degrees cooler in here now without that 21" room heater CRT!

http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...my%20setup.jpg

http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...y%20setup2.jpg

Andrew Petrie · August 22nd, 2003, 07:49 AM

Do they work well with games? I've held back on LCD monitors because I've never been impressed with their ability to maintain a crisp clear image when a lot is happening on-screen.

Glen Elliott · August 22nd, 2003, 08:23 AM

That was my main concern as a gamer myself. The performance rating to look for in this respect is pixel response time. Unlike CRT's which are refresh based displays the LCD's display has to light, and darken pixels accordingly to produce moving images. The latency for the pixel to light and go dark is your pixel response time, which is based on milliseconds. I've seen cheaper LCDs with pixel response times in the 50ms range which would, in turn, create alot of "ghosting". Even higher end large (18-21") LCDs usually have roughly a 25-30ms pixel repsonse time. I specifically chose the NEC 1765 because of it's fairly accurate color representation (less accurate in the dark ranges of colors) and it's blazing fast 16ms pixel responce time.

One of the first things I did to test this was load up good ol' Unreal Tournemant 2003! Let me tell you even with all my jump turns, strafing, dodging and wall hopping I didn't detect an ounce of ghosting! Litterally the same performance I got from my CRT. Now that's not to say it's non-existent. When I'm in, say, Photoshop (for example) and click and drag a palette across the screen back and forth I notice a small amount of ghosting on the black text on bright backgrounds.
Yet I didn't notice a hint of any during a fast paced game.

Before you make the decision to take the plunge with LCD displays you must weigh the benefits and their limitations:

Benefits
-Very crisp, especially when working with an NLE with tiny text in dialog boxes and palettes. Browsing the web never looked so good.
-Footprint, they take up so little space and can be moved without recieving a rectal hernia. Not only is it good for transport but it's good if you need to move it around on your desktop for cleaning and or reconfiguring the location and angle of the monitor.
-Heat, my room now is noticably cooler. They run at a much lower wattage and create very little heat. It used to get like an oven in my room when editing at night on my 21" CRT. Cooler room means happier PC hardware (CPU, ram, etc)...plus happier user as well. ;)
-No refresh, beings the display doesn't refresh it's much gentler on the eyes. I can remember many times spending several hours in front of my CRT and recieving a complimentary eye-strain enduced headache (and thats even at 85htz).
Plus (I could be wrong but...) LCDs don't produce radiation like CRTs do.

Limitations
-Expense, despite the fact the price gap between CRTs and LCDs is closing- LCDs are still much more expensive then it's CRT counterpart. I mean how many times have you seen a 17" CRT priced at $550?!
-Color, LCDs have trouble rendering colors accuratly...mainly in the darker greys. Plus it seems the darkest black is a dark grey (off-black).
-Ghosting, if you plan on gaming you have to watch the LCDs with lower (higher) pixel responce times. Anything over 20ms isn't suitable for fast paced gaming like First-Person Shooters.

Hope this helps- I did my research and felt the benefits outweighted the limitations especially beings 16ms makes it suitable for gaming as well.

Nick Medrano · August 22nd, 2003, 11:22 AM

LCDs are still not as accurate in colors and details like good 'ol Trinitron CRTs....that's the main reason why I have yet to move over to LCDs.

No such thing as radiations from CRTs.....also, you had the refresh rate pretty darn low (85mhz). Try 120mhz and it'll work like silk to the eyes.

Other than that, looks great!

Glen Elliott · August 22nd, 2003, 11:39 AM

Nick the CRTs do produce a certian amount of radiation just as Television sets do. The only aspect I wasn't sure about is if LCDs do the same.

True enough, LCDs (at this point) cannot compete against the collor accuracy of a CRT though they are getting much better.
ie http://www.tomshardware.com/display/20030626/index.html
Sharp makes an 18" LCD that is on par with any Lacie calibrated CRT...though it's $4,300. I am into graphic (mostly web) so I really don't deal with print too much...the loss in the lower/darker spectrum is negligable.

Regarding refesh rates, I was running my CRT at 100htz (the highest my monitor would support at 1280x1024) before I realized I was actually hurting the image quality by running an unecessarily high refresh rate. Maximum PC writes, "Setting the refresh rate higher than necessary will needlessly degrade image sharpness due to video bandwidth effects (the pixel clock rate increases with the refresh rate, and this can lead to blurriness). I didn't believe it at first till I tried it and low and behold my text did sharpen up considerably.

Nick Medrano · August 22nd, 2003, 11:55 AM

Thanks Glen, maybe I should decrease mine...I got it set at 120mhz...but it looks fantastic and I haven't noticed any blurriness. I have a Trinitron and maybe it can tolerate alot more...I don't know.

Glen Elliott · August 22nd, 2003, 11:56 AM

That's what I had/have, Sony Trinitron 21" E540.
I thought mine looked fantastic as well, it's kinda that we don't notice things till they change. When/if you try and lower your refresh take close note to the text onscreen- thats where I noticed it most.

Alex Knappenberger · August 22nd, 2003, 11:57 AM

Cool, Glenn. Them monitors look sick. :D

I'm going to get a old PCI video card off someone, and see how that works. The other monitor I got is a old crappy 15 inch that I used for like 4 years...

August 21st, 2003, 08:18 PM	#1
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	*Just configured my dual monitor setup tonight pics included- attn: Alex* Just splurged a bit and picked myself up a couple of 17" NEC MultiSync 1765's. Was a little over a grand to do this but well worth it. I was sick of my 21" Sony Trinitron E540. I simply used a single AGP video card (Gforce 4 Ti4600) and configured it in Nvidia's Nview to set it up. Alex, you can even use a cheap Gforce MX to do the same thing (under $100) I must say I'm really enjoying it. I was delighted the first time I opened up Photoshop...being able to move all my palets to one monitor while having a full monitor just for the image I'm editing. Vegas was even better- I was able to span my timeline across both the monitors allowing me to better monitor the flow of my project visually. It also allowed me to un-nest a bunch of palettes and make them permanantly visible rather than tucked away. I think it'll help my efficiency working on my NLE with so much real-estate. I no longer have to keep scrolling and/or zooming in and out of my timeline. It's also had a huge effect on my room temperature. It's about 3-4 degrees cooler in here now without that 21" room heater CRT! http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...my%20setup.jpg http://www.mazdamp3.com/vbb230/_hand...y%20setup2.jpg

August 22nd, 2003, 07:49 AM	#2
Andrew Petrie Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, Ontario, Canada Posts: 484	Do they work well with games? I've held back on LCD monitors because I've never been impressed with their ability to maintain a crisp clear image when a lot is happening on-screen. __________________ Andrew \| Canon XL1s, ME66, Vinten Vision 3, GlideCam V16 (for sale!)

August 22nd, 2003, 08:23 AM	#3
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	That was my main concern as a gamer myself. The performance rating to look for in this respect is pixel response time. Unlike CRT's which are refresh based displays the LCD's display has to light, and darken pixels accordingly to produce moving images. The latency for the pixel to light and go dark is your pixel response time, which is based on milliseconds. I've seen cheaper LCDs with pixel response times in the 50ms range which would, in turn, create alot of "ghosting". Even higher end large (18-21") LCDs usually have roughly a 25-30ms pixel repsonse time. I specifically chose the NEC 1765 because of it's fairly accurate color representation (less accurate in the dark ranges of colors) and it's blazing fast 16ms pixel responce time. One of the first things I did to test this was load up good ol' Unreal Tournemant 2003! Let me tell you even with all my jump turns, strafing, dodging and wall hopping I didn't detect an ounce of ghosting! Litterally the same performance I got from my CRT. Now that's not to say it's non-existent. When I'm in, say, Photoshop (for example) and click and drag a palette across the screen back and forth I notice a small amount of ghosting on the black text on bright backgrounds. Yet I didn't notice a hint of any during a fast paced game. Before you make the decision to take the plunge with LCD displays you must weigh the benefits and their limitations: Benefits -Very crisp, especially when working with an NLE with tiny text in dialog boxes and palettes. Browsing the web never looked so good. -Footprint, they take up so little space and can be moved without recieving a rectal hernia. Not only is it good for transport but it's good if you need to move it around on your desktop for cleaning and or reconfiguring the location and angle of the monitor. -Heat, my room now is noticably cooler. They run at a much lower wattage and create very little heat. It used to get like an oven in my room when editing at night on my 21" CRT. Cooler room means happier PC hardware (CPU, ram, etc)...plus happier user as well. ;) -No refresh, beings the display doesn't refresh it's much gentler on the eyes. I can remember many times spending several hours in front of my CRT and recieving a complimentary eye-strain enduced headache (and thats even at 85htz). Plus (I could be wrong but...) LCDs don't produce radiation like CRTs do. Limitations -Expense, despite the fact the price gap between CRTs and LCDs is closing- LCDs are still much more expensive then it's CRT counterpart. I mean how many times have you seen a 17" CRT priced at $550?! -Color, LCDs have trouble rendering colors accuratly...mainly in the darker greys. Plus it seems the darkest black is a dark grey (off-black). -Ghosting, if you plan on gaming you have to watch the LCDs with lower (higher) pixel responce times. Anything over 20ms isn't suitable for fast paced gaming like First-Person Shooters. Hope this helps- I did my research and felt the benefits outweighted the limitations especially beings 16ms makes it suitable for gaming as well.

August 22nd, 2003, 11:22 AM	#4
Nick Medrano Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 331	LCDs are still not as accurate in colors and details like good 'ol Trinitron CRTs....that's the main reason why I have yet to move over to LCDs. No such thing as radiations from CRTs.....also, you had the refresh rate pretty darn low (85mhz). Try 120mhz and it'll work like silk to the eyes. Other than that, looks great!

August 22nd, 2003, 11:39 AM	#5
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	Nick the CRTs do produce a certian amount of radiation just as Television sets do. The only aspect I wasn't sure about is if LCDs do the same. True enough, LCDs (at this point) cannot compete against the collor accuracy of a CRT though they are getting much better. ie http://www.tomshardware.com/display/20030626/index.html Sharp makes an 18" LCD that is on par with any Lacie calibrated CRT...though it's $4,300. I am into graphic (mostly web) so I really don't deal with print too much...the loss in the lower/darker spectrum is negligable. Regarding refesh rates, I was running my CRT at 100htz (the highest my monitor would support at 1280x1024) before I realized I was actually hurting the image quality by running an unecessarily high refresh rate. Maximum PC writes, "Setting the refresh rate higher than necessary will needlessly degrade image sharpness due to video bandwidth effects (the pixel clock rate increases with the refresh rate, and this can lead to blurriness). I didn't believe it at first till I tried it and low and behold my text did sharpen up considerably.

August 22nd, 2003, 11:55 AM	#6
Nick Medrano Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 331	Thanks Glen, maybe I should decrease mine...I got it set at 120mhz...but it looks fantastic and I haven't noticed any blurriness. I have a Trinitron and maybe it can tolerate alot more...I don't know.

August 22nd, 2003, 11:56 AM	#7
Glen Elliott Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 2,898	That's what I had/have, Sony Trinitron 21" E540. I thought mine looked fantastic as well, it's kinda that we don't notice things till they change. When/if you try and lower your refresh take close note to the text onscreen- thats where I noticed it most.

August 22nd, 2003, 11:57 AM	#8
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Cool, Glenn. Them monitors look sick. :D I'm going to get a old PCI video card off someone, and see how that works. The other monitor I got is a old crappy 15 inch that I used for like 4 years...