My Fim look test at DVinfo.net

Ben Gurvich · December 23rd, 2003, 02:06 AM

Here is a link to a clip I tried to "filmlook".

http://www.benzenworlds.com

Firstly is it any good? or am i wasting my time.

Is filmlooking even worth it, cause it still looks like video. I guess one argument is it looks another generation less than video and adds the beginings of the magical film look, its debatable of course.

Frank Granovski · December 23rd, 2003, 02:32 AM

Which film-look were you trying to duplicate?

Mark Jefferson · December 23rd, 2003, 07:58 AM

Generally speaking, it usually isn't worth the time to go for the film lookwith a plugin. Unless you use extremely high production values (good lighting, shallow DOF, proper framing, good sound, etc) the time debt incurred with a film-like effect isn't worth it.

If your cam supports a frame movie mode, use it to get a more film-like motion characteristic. Try to light as best you can. Color-balance your video. Any Film-like plugin is going to take a HUGE amount of time to render, and like you said, it still looks like video.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about. All I did was color-balance and de-interlace. It didn't take that long, but it looks pretty good. I'm in the process of running this same video (11 min 18 sec) though Cinelook, and it has been rendering for 17 hours so far, and still has about 10 to go.

http://www.jeffersons.org/bball.wmv

I did this video for my daughters Basketball Banquet.

Just my $.02 worth.

Cheers,
Mark Jefferson

Ben Gurvich · December 23rd, 2003, 08:02 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Which film-look were you trying to duplicate? -->>>

I guess any film look. I used the tutorial for After effects from this forum.
Basically im interested to know is it worth my while doing this or does it just look like ordinary video.

Mark Jefferson · December 23rd, 2003, 08:08 AM

From what I've read (and personal experience) film-look plugins make the video dark and contrasty. The film-like look tut on this site (using AE) is pretty good, but still requires good production values. Without those high production values, it looks like video that has been processed.

Theres a lot of dicussion about how to achieve a film-look. Personally, I think the motion characteristics is what makes the biggest difference. At the very least, deinterlace your video.

Cheers,
Mark Jefferson

Richard James · December 23rd, 2003, 02:40 PM

I have seen some very impressive film look footage using a minidv cam, if you havn't seen it check out "no regrets" (shot on the canon gl2, (in frame mode, with added post effects i assume) http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/no_regrets

Shows it can be done very well... not quite sure how the director got the effects he did, i would be interested to know the complete process that it took to get that film look...

But it shows there is hope:)

Alex Dunn · December 23rd, 2003, 04:25 PM

That would be a good clip (No Regret) if it hadn't already been done in a slightly larger production called "Meet Joe Black". Nevertheless, the camera seems to have done it's job well.

Ben Gurvich · December 23rd, 2003, 10:07 PM

The answer here is usually use a canon xl1s, with frame mode, but what aboutfor us single ship kids?

Frank Granovski · December 23rd, 2003, 10:23 PM

Quote:

...canon xl1s, with frame mode, but what aboutfor us single ship kids?

A single CCD cam with progressive scan. You can find one in the used cam market. Both JVC and Canon made them.

Ben Gurvich · December 24th, 2003, 04:18 AM

Would you be able to tell me those Single Chip progressive models, PAL versions please

Frank Granovski · December 24th, 2003, 05:18 AM

I don't know the PAL model mumbers, but here is a partial list of a few N.A. NTSC models:

Canon
Elura
Optura
Optura PI

JVC
GR-DVL9000
GR-DVL9500 (GR-DVL9600 for PAL)
GR-DVL9800
GR-DV2000

I own 2 DVL9500s; I would say that overall, the Optura PI might be better in some ways - both good with low light.

There are other Canon and JVC models that also had PS, but I can't recall the models off hand.

Ben Gurvich · December 24th, 2003, 07:54 AM

Hmm i had a check on Ebay in Australia and UK, both PAL, and i cant find anything. Any Aussies know any single Chip progressive cams?

Graeme Nattress · December 24th, 2003, 10:03 AM

Looks pretty good to me, but seeing it on TV is the real test. If you're PAL, then what you need is a good, adaptive (smart) de-interlacer. Use curves to modify the contrast of the image. After that, you're into the land of "making it look nice". If you want to read more about Film looks, I sell a package for Final Cut Pro called Film Effects, and I have a great article on my web site explaining how it all works, which may help you.

Graeme

Patrick Falls · December 24th, 2003, 06:18 PM

hey Rob, i left a post somewhere stating i have a brand new 4 and a half hour battery for that exact camera. i had the camera, then i took it back. i ordered the battery from jvc a couple of weeks ago and now i no longer need it. you can e-mail me at mrpatrick357@hotmail if you are interested.

Rob Hester · December 24th, 2003, 08:11 PM

sorry, I don't have the money for that right now :S
why not try selling it on ebay?

December 23rd, 2003, 02:06 AM	#1
Ben Gurvich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 329	My Fim look test Here is a link to a clip I tried to "filmlook". http://www.benzenworlds.com Firstly is it any good? or am i wasting my time. Is filmlooking even worth it, cause it still looks like video. I guess one argument is it looks another generation less than video and adds the beginings of the magical film look, its debatable of course.

December 24th, 2003, 10:03 AM	#13
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	Looks pretty good to me, but seeing it on TV is the real test. If you're PAL, then what you need is a good, adaptive (smart) de-interlacer. Use curves to modify the contrast of the image. After that, you're into the land of "making it look nice". If you want to read more about Film looks, I sell a package for Final Cut Pro called Film Effects, and I have a great article on my web site explaining how it all works, which may help you. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

December 24th, 2003, 06:18 PM	#14
Patrick Falls Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Augusta georgia 15min. from Aiken S.Carolina and 2 hours from Atlanta Posts: 105	jvc dv3000u hey Rob, i left a post somewhere stating i have a brand new 4 and a half hour battery for that exact camera. i had the camera, then i took it back. i ordered the battery from jvc a couple of weeks ago and now i no longer need it. you can e-mail me at mrpatrick357@hotmail if you are interested.

December 24th, 2003, 08:11 PM	#15
Rob Hester Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 113	sorry, I don't have the money for that right now :S why not try selling it on ebay? __________________ JVC DV3000U - 30P (non-interlaced) capture on a budget - tests@http://robvideo.netfirms.com

December 23rd, 2003, 02:32 AM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Which film-look were you trying to duplicate?

December 23rd, 2003, 07:58 AM	#3
Mark Jefferson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Collinsville, Illinois Posts: 86	Generally speaking, it usually isn't worth the time to go for the film lookwith a plugin. Unless you use extremely high production values (good lighting, shallow DOF, proper framing, good sound, etc) the time debt incurred with a film-like effect isn't worth it. If your cam supports a frame movie mode, use it to get a more film-like motion characteristic. Try to light as best you can. Color-balance your video. Any Film-like plugin is going to take a HUGE amount of time to render, and like you said, it still looks like video. Here is an example of what I'm talking about. All I did was color-balance and de-interlace. It didn't take that long, but it looks pretty good. I'm in the process of running this same video (11 min 18 sec) though Cinelook, and it has been rendering for 17 hours so far, and still has about 10 to go. http://www.jeffersons.org/bball.wmv I did this video for my daughters Basketball Banquet. Just my $.02 worth. Cheers, Mark Jefferson

December 23rd, 2003, 08:02 AM	#4
Ben Gurvich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 329	<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Which film-look were you trying to duplicate? -->>> I guess any film look. I used the tutorial for After effects from this forum. Basically im interested to know is it worth my while doing this or does it just look like ordinary video.

December 23rd, 2003, 08:08 AM	#5
Mark Jefferson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Collinsville, Illinois Posts: 86	From what I've read (and personal experience) film-look plugins make the video dark and contrasty. The film-like look tut on this site (using AE) is pretty good, but still requires good production values. Without those high production values, it looks like video that has been processed. Theres a lot of dicussion about how to achieve a film-look. Personally, I think the motion characteristics is what makes the biggest difference. At the very least, deinterlace your video. Cheers, Mark Jefferson

December 23rd, 2003, 02:40 PM	#6
Richard James Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: England, london. Posts: 31	I have seen some very impressive film look footage using a minidv cam, if you havn't seen it check out "no regrets" (shot on the canon gl2, (in frame mode, with added post effects i assume) http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/no_regrets Shows it can be done very well... not quite sure how the director got the effects he did, i would be interested to know the complete process that it took to get that film look... But it shows there is hope:)

December 23rd, 2003, 04:25 PM	#7
Alex Dunn Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 202	That would be a good clip (No Regret) if it hadn't already been done in a slightly larger production called "Meet Joe Black". Nevertheless, the camera seems to have done it's job well.

December 23rd, 2003, 10:07 PM	#8
Ben Gurvich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 329	The answer here is usually use a canon xl1s, with frame mode, but what aboutfor us single ship kids?

December 24th, 2003, 04:18 AM	#10
Ben Gurvich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 329	Would you be able to tell me those Single Chip progressive models, PAL versions please

December 24th, 2003, 05:18 AM	#11
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	I don't know the PAL model mumbers, but here is a partial list of a few N.A. NTSC models: Canon Elura Optura Optura PI JVC GR-DVL9000 GR-DVL9500 (GR-DVL9600 for PAL) GR-DVL9800 GR-DV2000 I own 2 DVL9500s; I would say that overall, the Optura PI might be better in some ways - both good with low light. There are other Canon and JVC models that also had PS, but I can't recall the models off hand.

December 24th, 2003, 07:54 AM	#12
Ben Gurvich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 329	Hmm i had a check on Ebay in Australia and UK, both PAL, and i cant find anything. Any Aussies know any single Chip progressive cams?