Sony Pd150 Film Look!! at DVinfo.net

Mike Krum · November 24th, 2004, 03:23 PM

I Just Got The Wonderful sony pd150 dv camera and am starting my first project soon. i need to know how to get a film look with this camera and the help of sony vegas 4.0. HELP!!!

I would like to have it made possible by setting stuff inside the camera not sony vegas 4. but if that is the only way then thats ok i just need a film look fast

Jesse Bekas · November 24th, 2004, 04:18 PM

De-interlace and change the color curve to a very slight S.

Mike Krum · November 24th, 2004, 04:28 PM

What do you mean by an s?

Will Robertson · November 24th, 2004, 04:44 PM

He means like this... http://www.lynxenterprisesonline.com...df08a894dd8f0b

You should just read that whole post.

Mike Rehmus · November 24th, 2004, 05:54 PM

A search should turn the information up. But you really need to do it in post.

Jesse Bekas · November 24th, 2004, 07:58 PM

Sorry for the quickie post, Mike. I should have gone into a more detailed explanation. I was just giving you the fastest, easiest, most generic filmlook formula (that I know of). That article should take care of things from here though.

Rob Lohman · November 25th, 2004, 03:33 AM

Mike: I have merged two of your threads, please don't start
threads all over the place on the same topic. There is a reason
we have a film look forum!

On a second note, there is a LOT more to a "filmic look" (ie, a more
professional look) than just a couple of settings on your camera
or in post (inside Vegas 4 in this case). Also each of these things
takes practice and time to master (so don't expect to learn it fast!)

Keep in mind the following:

- make sure your story is top notch
- lighting / shadow (get the lighting gear)
- framing (camera support gear)
- audio / music (audio equipment + knowledge)
- acting (no, your friends are not actors!)
- editing
- sets / props / costumes / makeup

etc. etc. what I'm trying to say is that the look you are looking
for is not a simple thing to achieve. There is a reason why there
are so many people working on a film for example.

Good luck!

Scott Ellifritt · November 25th, 2004, 05:22 AM

I have a Sony VX2100 and Adobe. I'll tweak the gamma, R/G/B, and brightness/contrast. This makes the video look less like video. I've tried some of the deinterlacing softwares and I don't see much difference to get excited about. I did check out the Panasonic DVX100A and it's filmic/less like video qualities and all I can say is, "I'm waiting for my new one to be shipped!"

Mike Krum · November 25th, 2004, 12:13 PM

scott can you post any videos you made with the dvx100a i would like to see somthing done with it

Scott Ellifritt · November 25th, 2004, 04:02 PM

As soon as it comes in I'll post some footage. In the mean time you should check out http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/YaBB.pl and click on screen grabs. There's alot of 100 and 100A footage that you can see.

Ignacio Rodriguez · December 7th, 2004, 01:58 PM

I use FCP for processing footage from a PDX10.

I have found that adding motion blur is the most important thing to do if I want a "film" look. In FCP's Motion tab, it is possible to apply Motion Blur to clips. I can control the strength and the amount of samples. The more samples, the more render time, the smoother it looks. Of course you can skip this step if have a 24p camera like the DVX100 or XL2.

The second most important thing is applying a non-linear luma effect (like Stib's Film Curves). This helps get more contrast from the midtones. It is also possible to use Stib's curves to seperately affect color channels, adding a non-linear tint to the picture. This makes for a really nice effect as seen on many music videos.

The third thing, especially if working in uncontrolled lighting and/or auto exposure, "documentary" style, is to underexpose a bit during aquisition, which also keeps the highlights from being slammed video style. If you watch the resulting unprocessed footage on a video monitor it will look somewhat dark of course, but applying non linear luma processing will get the contrast back.

Of course, blurring and deinterlacing will --well-- blur the picture a little bit, but it has the added advantage of reducing noise and chroma artifacts, which is something good if using Stib's Film Curves or something like that with DV-originated material.

So as you see it all kind of fits together, 'film' curves, motion blur, underexposure...

This what I do in the camera:

Sony PDX10 in 16x9 mode, 1/60
Turn down edge enhancement ('sharpening') to almost a minimum (custom preset).
Set chroma ('color level') to somewhat less than default (custom preset).
Adjust AE point so as to underexpose a bit (custom preset).
Try not to move the camera too much, almost never zoom.

This is what I do in FCP4:

Set 10-bit YUV processing.
Deinterlace.
Use Stib's Film Curves 1.0 (slightly) and Stib's Simple Levels.
Use Too Much Too Soon's Black Restore.
Sometimes desaturate highlights and lowlights.
Sometimes, use Too Much Too Soon's noise reduction. *
Sometimes add saturation with the Proc Amp filter.
Use FCP4's Motion Blur slightly, 4 samples, 100.

* After using Stib's curves to get more contrast from the midtones, noise becomes more visible, so I usually apply some noise reduction algorithm to clean it up a bit. This is probably much worse if you are using a noisier camera and shooting in low light. In well-lighted conditions, the PDX10 is extremely noise free for such an inexpensive camera.

Stib's free plugs:
http://www.scriptgeek.netfirms.com/

Graeme's plugs:
http://www.nattress.com/

Too Much Too Soon (new URL):
http://www.mattias.nu/plugins/

CHV Silk & Fog:
http://www.chv-plugins.com/silkandfog_m1.html

As Rob has pointed out, there is much more than just video processing and camera settings to get a "film" look, don't forget that.

Hugh DiMauro · December 13th, 2004, 03:00 PM

Mike:

I just bought the PD 170 and all I do is deinterlace the footage when I render in Vegas 5.0. I was simply blown away by the results. I thought I was watching film. Try it. It's that simple. Of course, you can get more elaborate by tweaking the gamma and s curve. But at the very least, shoot good, well-lit and well framed video and deinterlace when you render in Vegas. You will be amazed. I was.

Jose di Cani · December 15th, 2004, 04:30 PM

deinterlacing doesn't fix anything. YOu need more than than to get the film look. It is all about gamma, curves, midtones shadows, use of black. Colour and shadows make a movie look like a movie. YOu don't have to blur anything really. only add a touch of blur in fast scenes (running of a man, chasing cars, etc etc).

Ignacio Rodriguez · December 15th, 2004, 05:54 PM

'S' in the graphical sense, a non-linear function which enhances the midtone's contrast. It might not actually have to be exactly S-shaped. Take a look at figure one on that post at linxenterproseonline or play around with the curves function in a program like Photoshop or After Effects and you will get the idea.

Jose, can you please share with us the methods you use to do this? What tools to you use to modify gamma and so forth?

November 24th, 2004, 03:23 PM	#1
Mike Krum account suspended -- contact admin. Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 17	Sony Pd150 Film Look!! I Just Got The Wonderful sony pd150 dv camera and am starting my first project soon. i need to know how to get a film look with this camera and the help of sony vegas 4.0. HELP!!! I would like to have it made possible by setting stuff inside the camera not sony vegas 4. but if that is the only way then thats ok i just need a film look fast

November 24th, 2004, 04:28 PM	#3
Mike Krum account suspended -- contact admin. Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 17	? What do you mean by an s?

November 24th, 2004, 05:54 PM	#5
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	A search should turn the information up. But you really need to do it in post. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

November 25th, 2004, 03:33 AM	#7
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Moderator notice Mike: I have merged two of your threads, please don't start threads all over the place on the same topic. There is a reason we have a film look forum! On a second note, there is a LOT more to a "filmic look" (ie, a more professional look) than just a couple of settings on your camera or in post (inside Vegas 4 in this case). Also each of these things takes practice and time to master (so don't expect to learn it fast!) Keep in mind the following: - make sure your story is top notch - lighting / shadow (get the lighting gear) - framing (camera support gear) - audio / music (audio equipment + knowledge) - acting (no, your friends are not actors!) - editing - sets / props / costumes / makeup etc. etc. what I'm trying to say is that the look you are looking for is not a simple thing to achieve. There is a reason why there are so many people working on a film for example. Good luck! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 25th, 2004, 12:13 PM	#9
Mike Krum account suspended -- contact admin. Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 17	ok scott can you post any videos you made with the dvx100a i would like to see somthing done with it

November 24th, 2004, 04:18 PM	#2
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	De-interlace and change the color curve to a very slight S.

November 24th, 2004, 04:44 PM	#4
Will Robertson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Orem, UT. Posts: 24	He means like this... http://www.lynxenterprisesonline.com...df08a894dd8f0b You should just read that whole post.

November 24th, 2004, 07:58 PM	#6
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	Sorry for the quickie post, Mike. I should have gone into a more detailed explanation. I was just giving you the fastest, easiest, most generic filmlook formula (that I know of). That article should take care of things from here though.

November 25th, 2004, 05:22 AM	#8
Scott Ellifritt Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MS Gulf Coast Posts: 146	I have a Sony VX2100 and Adobe. I'll tweak the gamma, R/G/B, and brightness/contrast. This makes the video look less like video. I've tried some of the deinterlacing softwares and I don't see much difference to get excited about. I did check out the Panasonic DVX100A and it's filmic/less like video qualities and all I can say is, "I'm waiting for my new one to be shipped!"

November 25th, 2004, 04:02 PM	#10
Scott Ellifritt Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: MS Gulf Coast Posts: 146	As soon as it comes in I'll post some footage. In the mean time you should check out http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/YaBB.pl and click on screen grabs. There's alot of 100 and 100A footage that you can see.

December 7th, 2004, 01:58 PM	#11
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	"Film Look" tips I use FCP for processing footage from a PDX10. I have found that adding motion blur is the most important thing to do if I want a "film" look. In FCP's Motion tab, it is possible to apply Motion Blur to clips. I can control the strength and the amount of samples. The more samples, the more render time, the smoother it looks. Of course you can skip this step if have a 24p camera like the DVX100 or XL2. The second most important thing is applying a non-linear luma effect (like Stib's Film Curves). This helps get more contrast from the midtones. It is also possible to use Stib's curves to seperately affect color channels, adding a non-linear tint to the picture. This makes for a really nice effect as seen on many music videos. The third thing, especially if working in uncontrolled lighting and/or auto exposure, "documentary" style, is to underexpose a bit during aquisition, which also keeps the highlights from being slammed video style. If you watch the resulting unprocessed footage on a video monitor it will look somewhat dark of course, but applying non linear luma processing will get the contrast back. Of course, blurring and deinterlacing will --well-- blur the picture a little bit, but it has the added advantage of reducing noise and chroma artifacts, which is something good if using Stib's Film Curves or something like that with DV-originated material. So as you see it all kind of fits together, 'film' curves, motion blur, underexposure... This what I do in the camera: Sony PDX10 in 16x9 mode, 1/60 Turn down edge enhancement ('sharpening') to almost a minimum (custom preset). Set chroma ('color level') to somewhat less than default (custom preset). Adjust AE point so as to underexpose a bit (custom preset). Try not to move the camera too much, almost never zoom. This is what I do in FCP4: Set 10-bit YUV processing. Deinterlace. Use Stib's Film Curves 1.0 (slightly) and Stib's Simple Levels. Use Too Much Too Soon's Black Restore. Sometimes desaturate highlights and lowlights. Sometimes, use Too Much Too Soon's noise reduction. * Sometimes add saturation with the Proc Amp filter. Use FCP4's Motion Blur slightly, 4 samples, 100. * After using Stib's curves to get more contrast from the midtones, noise becomes more visible, so I usually apply some noise reduction algorithm to clean it up a bit. This is probably much worse if you are using a noisier camera and shooting in low light. In well-lighted conditions, the PDX10 is extremely noise free for such an inexpensive camera. Stib's free plugs: http://www.scriptgeek.netfirms.com/ Graeme's plugs: http://www.nattress.com/ Too Much Too Soon (new URL): http://www.mattias.nu/plugins/ CHV Silk & Fog: http://www.chv-plugins.com/silkandfog_m1.html As Rob has pointed out, there is much more than just video processing and camera settings to get a "film" look, don't forget that. __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

December 13th, 2004, 03:00 PM	#12
Hugh DiMauro Trustee Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,205	Film Look with PD 150 Mike: I just bought the PD 170 and all I do is deinterlace the footage when I render in Vegas 5.0. I was simply blown away by the results. I thought I was watching film. Try it. It's that simple. Of course, you can get more elaborate by tweaking the gamma and s curve. But at the very least, shoot good, well-lit and well framed video and deinterlace when you render in Vegas. You will be amazed. I was. __________________ Interesting, if true. And interesting anyway.

December 15th, 2004, 04:30 PM	#13
Jose di Cani Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Holland, Europe Posts: 214	deinterlacing doesn't fix anything. YOu need more than than to get the film look. It is all about gamma, curves, midtones shadows, use of black. Colour and shadows make a movie look like a movie. YOu don't have to blur anything really. only add a touch of blur in fast scenes (running of a man, chasing cars, etc etc).

December 15th, 2004, 05:54 PM	#14
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	'S' in the graphical sense, a non-linear function which enhances the midtone's contrast. It might not actually have to be exactly S-shaped. Take a look at figure one on that post at linxenterproseonline or play around with the curves function in a program like Photoshop or After Effects and you will get the idea. Jose, can you please share with us the methods you use to do this? What tools to you use to modify gamma and so forth? __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.