DV-L Tue, 10 Apr 2001 Volume 1 : Number 821
In this issue:
Florries in Europe
Re: Sound Advice - from DV to CD
DV with Cassette Memory [CM]
Re: Sound Advice - from DV to CD
Re: [Gongshu Zhang]
DV with Cassette Memory [CM]
Re: Vinten 3 tripod
Re: Sound Advice - from DV to CD
Sweetening Audio
SVHS vs DVD for output
Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Re: Need a little advice. . .
Re: OT - TV related Sagan quote.
Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Re: Sweetening Audio
After Effects 5.0 Ships!
Re: MS6 or Premiere 6
Re: Need a little advice. . .
Re: SV: Vinten 3 tripod +lights
Re: Gongshu Zhang
Re: Need a little advice. . .Ultralumes
Re: After Effects 5.0 Ships!
Re: Digital Media Lab
1394, Microsoft and Coffee
Re: 1394, Microsoft and Coffee
Re: Hi-end YRB input vs. YRB to firewire bridge (apples to apples)
Re: 1394, Microsoft and Coffee
"Portable Newsroom"
RE: 1394, Microsoft and Coffee
Questions about a Newbie and Sock Puppets
North Carolina Dept of Public Confusion
OMF export
RE: Hi-end YRB input vs. YRB to firewire bridge (apples to apples)
DSR-11 Question
National Court Reporters Association guidelines
Re: 1394, Microsoft and Coffee
Re: Hi-end YRB input vs. YRB to firewire bridge (apples to apples)
Re: DSR-11 Question
RE: 1394, Microsoft and Coffee
Re: National Court Reporters Association guidelines
Re: Need a little advice. . .
Re: DSR-11 Question
Re: 1394, Microsoft, Coffee, and the nominal fee that went poof
Re: OT - Sagan quote.
Best prices
Sony mini dv & dv cam recorder
Re: OT - TV related Sagan quote.
Re: Sony mini dv & dv cam recorder
Re: DSR-11 Question
Re: DSR-11 Question
Re: Questions about a Newbie and Sock Puppets
Re: Best prices
Re: National Court Reporters Association guidelines
Re: Digital Media Lab
Re: 1394, Microsoft, Coffee, and the nominal fee that went poof
Re: 1394, Microsoft, Coffee, and the nominal fee that went poof
Test post
Re: 1394, Microsoft, Coffee, and the nominal fee that went poof
Re: 1394, Microsoft, Coffee, and the nominal fee that went poof
Re: OT - TV related Sagan quote.
Re: OT - TV related Sagan quote.
Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 03:43:12 -0400
From: "Gongshu Zhang"
To:
Message-ID:
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:05:13 +0100
From: "Perry"
To: "DV-L"
Subject: Florries in Europe
Message-ID:
I noticed at several video shows in the last year that the extensive Italian
lighting industry has caught on to hf fluorescent lamps in a big way, and
there are several manufacturers from other European countries.
Unfortunately I had a clearout only last week and threw out all the
brochures!
Perry Mitchell
Video Consultant
http://www.perrybits.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:13:49 -0700
From: "masi"
To:
Subject: Re: Sound Advice - from DV to CD
Message-ID: <000201c0c140$ec80b6e0$a9254fca@l3t4d2>
> Not knowing your specifics, I would guess you can probably just use your
> onboard audio capability and use Windows 98 "Sound Recorder" to record
> your music and narrative audio. Believe it or not, I have never used
> Windows 98 Sound Recorder, so I can't be 100% sure. Just give it a try
> and see what happens.
Thanks. Found out today that MSP6 has all the sound editing software built
into it with its "Audio Editor" and is fairly intuitive. So as far as
getting the sound from both digital and analog sources on to my DV project
(including a live recording through a mike attached to the sound card), I
can do that.
On the other hand Walt raised the point of quality of sound through the
native sound card. If I brought sound in from a digital source, wouldn't the
sound quality remain the same through out production and finally through to
it's final destination, either tape or CD? I was told that digital sound
doesn't change unless you purposely altered it during production. Yes, I
understand that sound output during production is dependent on your hardware
but that shouldn't alter the actual quality of the audio files, correct?
I used Audiograbber 1.6 to transfer a track from a music CD to WAV and MP3
and in the process lost some information (which resulted as little licks and
pops in the file). The file properties explained this as being a possible
incompatiblity in speed between my internal CD-ROM (52x IDE - ATAPI) drive
and my hardrive (30GB Ultra ATA). So I guess that's a hardware issue with
sound at the audio file input stage. How can a digital file degrade during
production?
Thanks again.
Masi
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:34:53 +0200
From: "Arie Carmon"
To:
Subject: DV with Cassette Memory [CM]
Message-ID: <001c01c0c0e0$b7735490$ad4774c0@ariec>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0C0F1.7A1E95D0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
By way of introduction I am a newbee in Video camera usage. I acquired a =
Sony DCR PC-100E and read in the manual that some feature e.g. adding =
titles, are only feasible if you use a DV cassette with cassette memory =
and that thesae are identified with the mark CM. In trying to purchase =
such cassettes I could not find a dealer who knows anything about it. =
All I get is standard DV cassettes marked ME but this does not function =
with the special capabilities attributed to CM. Can anyone enlighten me =
about the availability of these cassettes and are they priced at a =
deterrent level and thus rarely stocked? or is there another reason for =
it?
/Arie
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Arie Carmon
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
By way of introduction I am a newbee in = Video=20 camera usage. I acquired a Sony DCR PC-100E and read in the manual = that=20 some feature e.g. adding titles, are only feasible if you use a DV = cassette with cassette memory and that thesae are identified with the = mark=20 CM. In trying to purchase such cassettes I could not find a = dealer who=20 knows anything about it. All I get is standard DV cassettes marked ME = but this=20 does not function with the special capabilities attributed to = CM. Can=20 anyone enlighten me about the availability of these cassettes and are = they=20 priced at a deterrent level and thus rarely stocked? or is there another = reason=20 for it?
/Arie
----------------------------------------------------------------= -
Arie=20 Carmon
--= ---------------------------------------------------------------
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C0C0F1.7A1E95D0--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:07:16 +0200
From: "Viimar Lindau"
To:
Subject: Re: Sound Advice - from DV to CD
Message-ID: <008301c0c0e5$3d360c90$8312a8c0@tln.et.ee>
> Not knowing your specifics, I would guess you can probably just use your
> onboard audio capability and use Windows 98 "Sound Recorder" to record
> your music and narrative audio. Believe it or not, I have never used
> Windows 98 Sound Recorder, so I can't be 100% sure. Just give it a try
> and see what happens.
But what about different sample rates? I've been thinking about this a lot
and made some tests, but still I'd like to hear some proffesional opinion
regarding this topic.
CD music has sample rate 44.1 kHz but soundtrack from my Sony D8 has 48 kHz.
When I try to mix them in Premier, CD music turns to very strage. Am I
missing something important here? Can someone comment this?
Viimar
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:29:40 +0200
From: "Ton Guiking"
To:
Subject: Re: [Gongshu Zhang]
Message-ID: <025b01c0c0e8$811ed100$cba16dc2@default>
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Gongshu Zhang
Aan: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Datum: maandag 9 april 2001 9:52
I definitely second that!
Ton G.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:52:35 +0100
From: "Perry"
To: "DV-L"
Subject: DV with Cassette Memory [CM]
Message-ID:
Arie posted:
>All I get is standard DV cassettes marked ME but this does not function
with the special capabilities attributed to CM. Can anyone enlighten me
about the availability of these cassettes and are they priced at a deterrent
level and thus rarely stocked? or is there another reason for it?<
ME just stands for Metal Evaporated, and is the same for all DV tapes. If
you can see the actual cassette shell, the chip versions have metal
connectors in the four rectangular holes on the front edge of the shell. The
non chip versions are empty.
I suspect lack of demand makes the chip versions difficult to find and
expensive, but there are no other problems with them. I suggest you find a
tape specialist and buy in bulk, it's much cheaper that way anyway. The chip
can give other benefits such as storing the position of the end of the last
recording.
Perry Mitchell
Video Consultant
http://www.perrybits.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:41:24 -0400
From: "David Cherniack"
To: Howard Phillips ,
DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Vinten 3 tripod
Message-ID: <3AD175B4.22422.3C71C1A@localhost>
I found the same thing - a little big and a little heavy, but fine movement.
Almost as good as the Sachtler DV6 which I found to be the best of the bunch -
also the most expensive but only marginally more than the Vinten. The DV6 also
be converted into a dv8 for a heavier camera.
David
Date sent: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 22:40:15 -0400
Subject: Vinten 3 tripod
From: Howard Phillips
To:
Send reply to: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
> this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
>
> --B_3069614415_1073129
> Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
> Regarding the Vinten 3 tripod; I had the good fortune to be an early tester
> for this tripod, and I agree with NewsmanSGW@aol.com that it=B9s a great
> tripod and worthy of consideration, if you can afford it. Besides the rathe=
> r
> high sticker price, I also found it to be a little heavy and, once mounted =
> ,
> a little imbalanced to carry around, the weight of the Vinten head
> overwhelms most of the legs you=B9ll attach it to.
>
> An illuminating level-bubble is quite nice, the finish is outstanding as is
> the overall manufacture. Like the bigger, higher-end Vintens, this tripod i=
> s
> beautiful to work with, the pan & tilt quality is very nice. The range of
> =8Csprings=B9 make it adaptable to different camera-weights, so that could help
> justify the cost. This is very much a pro-level tripod, may be overkill if
> you=B9re budgets are tight, but you won=B9t complain once you start using it!
>
> Hp
>
> --B_3069614415_1073129
> Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
>
>
>
> Vinten 3 tripod
>
>
>
> Regarding the Vinten 3 tripod; I had the good fortune to be an early tester=
> for this tripod, and I agree with NewsmanSGW@aol.com that it’s=
> a great tripod and worthy of consideration, if you can afford it. Besides t=
> he rather high sticker price, I also found it to be a little heavy and, once=
> mounted , a little imbalanced to carry around, the weight of the Vinten hea=
> d overwhelms most of the legs you’ll attach it to.
>
> An illuminating level-bubble is quite nice, the finish is outstanding as is=
> the overall manufacture. Like the bigger, higher-end Vintens, this tripod i=
> s beautiful to work with, the pan & tilt quality is very nice. The range=
> of ‘springs’ make it adaptable to different camera-weights, so =
> that could help justify the cost. This is very much a pro-level tripod, may =
> be overkill if you’re budgets are tight, but you won’t complain =
> once you start using it!
>
> Hp
>
>
>
>
> --B_3069614415_1073129--
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as http://www.promax.com, http://www
.videoguys.com, http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe: http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
___________________________________
Extended Films
dcherniack@canada.com
http://members.home.net/dcherniack
___________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 08:48:50 -0400
From: Joe Parker
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Sound Advice - from DV to CD
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010409084235.01b220a8@mail.speakeasy.org>
>I used Audiograbber 1.6 to transfer a track from a music CD to WAV and MP3
>and in the process lost some information (which resulted as little licks and
>pops in the file). The file properties explained this as being a possible
>incompatiblity in speed between my internal CD-ROM (52x IDE - ATAPI) drive
If you can't get a clean digital copy, AudioGrabber should have the option
to copy via analog. Try other rippers too e.g. the freeware CDEX (
http://www.cdex.n3.net/ ).
>CD music has sample rate 44.1 kHz but soundtrack from my Sony D8 has 48 kHz.
>When I try to mix them in Premier, CD music turns to very strage. Am I
I've never found this to be a problem. Once I used to resample all my music
to 48khz via SoundForge, but found the only real problems were with mp3's.
i.e., as long as the music was a .wav file any NLE could handle them fine
regardless of their 44khz origin. In Premiere be sure you have 'Sample
Quality' set to it's highest setting.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:17:41 -0400
From: "Quinn, Tom"
To: DV-L@DVCentral.org
Subject: Sweetening Audio
Message-ID: <7061CA37F57CD31194ED00104B9107200132C816@EXCHANGE>
Hey all -
First off - thanks to everyone who responded to my questions regarding
premiere/storm vs. Mac/fcp or premiere post. I'm hoping to make a decision
this week.
Even though I know that audio is crucial, I made the foolish mistake of
rushing the audio set up on my first feature. I know that capturing great
audio is really the only way to have great audio in the final product.
Although a good deal of our audio is decent to pretty good, several scenes
need substantial sweetening. Audio is not my forte (obviously) and I am
pretty new to the various audio filters and programs available. I will
probably be using sound forge for the audio work. Does anyone know of some
good resources (beginner through to advanced) to help me get my bearings and
to see what options I have in post? Thanks for your replies!
Tom Quinn
www.fourcornersltd.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:59:41 -0500
From: psidiver@skypoint.com (henry czuprinski)
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: SVHS vs DVD for output
Message-ID:
Looks like home burning DVD's is upon us for a price. Wondering who might
know how the current technology compares with SVHS for final output. Don't
know what the nesessary compression tradeoff is. Has anyone done a
realworld comparison. No question that DVD or the like is the future but is
it really worth it at this time in terms of image quality- for minidv
projects.
Henry Czuprinski
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:02:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Message-ID: <200104091502.KAA18577@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>Looks like home burning DVD's is upon us for a price. Wondering who might
>know how the current technology compares with SVHS for final output. Don't
>know what the nesessary compression tradeoff is. Has anyone done a
>realworld comparison. No question that DVD or the like is the future but is
>it really worth it at this time in terms of image quality- for minidv
>projects.
> Henry Czuprinski
I'm assuming that you have played commercial DVDs in your home system.
There is your answer.
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 10:04:05 -0500
From: Kirk Lohse
To:
Subject: Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Message-ID:
Henry,
DVD resolution is dead-on identical to mini-DV footage. Besides the obvious
reasons (interactive menus, chapter breaks, support for multiple camera
angles, subtitles, and 5.1 surround sound), DVD's picture quality, shelf
life, and the freedom from worry about tape related problems, definitely
make it the way to go.
Enjoy!
Kirk Lohse
digitalEYE productions
> From: psidiver@skypoint.com (henry czuprinski)
> Reply-To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:59:41 -0500
> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Subject: SVHS vs DVD for output
>
> Looks like home burning DVD's is upon us for a price. Wondering who might
> know how the current technology compares with SVHS for final output. Don't
> know what the nesessary compression tradeoff is. Has anyone done a
> realworld comparison. No question that DVD or the like is the future but is
> it really worth it at this time in terms of image quality- for minidv
> projects.
> Henry Czuprinski
>
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
> http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
> http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
> http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:11:11 +0200
From: "Ian Pellew"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Message-ID:
If, as Vidiot says, DVD-Ram is as we would see "Matrix", then DVD-Rams must be
way in advance of the latest DV's.
Mind DVD-Ram is just another storage midium, so that means we see as good as
what ever put it there!
BTW. Waht is the price of DVD-Ram these days. Still sound expensive as the DVD
itself is very Xpsive.
Regards
Ian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:19:01 -0700
From: "Mike Falconer"
To:
Subject: Re: Need a little advice. . .
Message-ID: <003e01c0c108$6839ee20$db12693f@c381851g>
I've shot for years with color corrected fluorescent tubes from
Philips...they're called Ultralumes and they provide beautiful soft warm
skin tones.
Mike Falconer
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert E Lamm"
To:
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: Need a little advice. . .
>
> Fluorescents can definitely be problematic, but they are used in
> professional production. Especially as fill lights in newsrooms. The
> reason is that they're less expensive to run and generate less heat. One
> has to choose the bulbs carefully, but fluorescents in good condition with
> ballasts that don't buzz are definitely usable for production. I think we
> carry some of these in our lighting catalog.
>
>
> -Bob Lamm
> CYNC Corp.
> Video/Multimedia Equipment Dealership
> Brookline, MA
> USA-617-277-4317
> www.cync.com
>
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, david e. kahn wrote:
>
> > Hello Again. Floucesents are a real problem as to light and noice.
Full
> > specturn lights are excellent. Try to never do you videos with
Flourcesents
> > as the main light. Tughollow
> >
> > > From: Chris Benham
> > > Reply-To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> > > Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 18:44:40 -0700
> > > To: DV-L
> > > Subject: Need a little advice. . .
> > >
> > > I am currently working on producing my first set of training videos.
> > > I'm shooting on-site at a local assisted living company's home office,
> > > and I just finished the first tape. I'm editing it in FinalCut, and
> > > I'm not entirely pleased with the look or sound of this first shoot.
> > >
> > > First problem: the room had a noisy air conditioner. It had a steady
> > > hum and some clicking and clacking that is audible in the background.
> > > I couldn't get them to turn it off, since the entire office is run off
> > > the same system, so the whole building would have gotten pretty hot by
> > > the end of an 8 hour shoot. I dropped in the hum remover filter at
> > > 60hz, which helped a little, but the audio is still a little messy.
> > > I'm not sure what else to do. I know that for the next shoot I'm
going
> > > to bring in a good quality lav mic to try to get the sound directed
> > > more at the speaker and less at the room in general. Does anyone have
> > > a good idea on what to do to clean the audio?
> > >
> > > Second problem: I'm shooting in a windowless conference room with
> > > stark white walls. I hung a picture on the wall behind the speaker
and
> > > put a tree and a chair against the wall to break things up, but the
> > > background still seems overly stark and bright. I used two Mole
> > > Baby-Babies, shooting one across as key light and bouncing one off the
> > > white wall to the left to fill it in. The room is also lit with
> > > fluorescents. What kind of recomendations do you have to fix THIS
> > > problem? I should probably gel the lights, but I'm not certain what
> > > gel to use (is it a plus green or a minus green?). I ran a proc amp
> > > filter in FCP, which helped quite a bit, but I'd rather not sit
through
> > > hours and hours of rendering. . . Any ideas on backdrops or other
> > > items to help alleviate the white wall problem? Should I just turn
off
> > > the overhead fluorescents?
> > >
> > > The other main problem I think can be fixed by renting an air
> > > compressor and a nail gun and then nailing the speaker's feet to the
> > > floor, so that they will stand in one place. . .
> > >
> > > any advice on these problems would be GREATLY appreciated. The
success
> > > of this project will play a large part in my decision to quit my day
> > > job and try this gig full time.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > |Chris Benham | benham@lclark.edu |
> > > |Consultant | |
> > > |Lewis & Clark College | Good, Fast, Cheap |
> > > |Portland, OR | Choose two. |
> > > | | |
> > > | | |
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> > > This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
> > > http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
> > > http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its
members.
> > >
> > > To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> > > All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
> > > http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> > > DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
> > >
> >
> > -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> > This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
> >
> > To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> > All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> > DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
> >
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:33:00 CST
From: "Bruce A. Johnson ORH 2-8503"
To:
Subject: Re: OT - TV related Sagan quote.
Message-ID: <1C18EB5380B@vilas.uwex.edu>
Actually, I remember it being the "tagline" for a religious program
called "Lamp Unto My Feet." According to Web sources, it ran on
CBS until 1979...undoubtably replaced by other such uplifting
shows as "Roller Derby" or "The McLaughlin Group."
Bruce A. Johnson, CIC
Wisconsin Public Television Digital Innovations Unit
ICQ# 26415869
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:47:18 -0400
From: "Jay Doggett"
To:
Subject: Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Message-ID: <8b1d01c0c10c$5b641d70$7301a8c0@nelly>
Oh yeah?
Where can I get my hands on one of the new Pioneer drives?
Now that I have my DV500 sorta functional....
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "henry czuprinski"
To:
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 10:59 AM
Subject: SVHS vs DVD for output
> Looks like home burning DVD's is upon us for a price. Wondering who might
> know how the current technology compares with SVHS for final output. Don't
> know what the nesessary compression tradeoff is. Has anyone done a
> realworld comparison. No question that DVD or the like is the future but
is
> it really worth it at this time in terms of image quality- for minidv
> projects.
> Henry Czuprinski
>
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:47:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Message-ID: <200104091547.KAA19007@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>If, as Vidiot says, DVD-Ram is as we would see "Matrix", then DVD-Rams must be
>way in advance of the latest DV's.
DO NOT GET DVD-RAM. If you cut to that, it will not be playable in desktop
DVD players.
I wasn't talking about program content, I was talking about the quality
of the image. MPEG-2, when given enough bandwidth, will beat S-VHS,
hands down.
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:49:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Message-ID: <200104091549.KAA19027@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>Where can I get my hands on one of the new Pioneer drives?
You can't, yet. Supposed to be shipping in May.
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:49:17 -0700
From: "Justus J. Schlichting"
To:
Subject: Re: Sweetening Audio
Message-ID: <200104091550.LAA03855@marconi.concentric.net>
Tom,
Check out Jay Rose's past columns on audio for DV magazine (at
http://www.dv.com/). Or, if you're feeling expansive, buy his=
book
"Producing Great Sound for Digital Video". I'm sure Amazon has=
it.
Excellent advice, especially for beginners, tailored for DV
production.
On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:17:41 -0400, dv-l@dvcentral.org wrote:
>Even though I know that audio is crucial, I made the foolish=
mistake
>of
>rushing the audio set up on my first feature. I know that=
capturing
>great
>audio is really the only way to have great audio in the final
>product.
>Although a good deal of our audio is decent to pretty good,=
several
>scenes
>need substantial sweetening. Audio is not my forte (obviously)=
and
>I am
>pretty new to the various audio filters and programs available. =
I
>will
>probably be using sound forge for the audio work. Does anyone=
know
>of some
>good resources (beginner through to advanced) to help me get my
>bearings and
>to see what options I have in post? Thanks for your replies!
>Tom Quinn
-- Justus J. Schlichting, justus-j@deltanet.com on 04/09/2001
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:55:08 -0700
From: "Robert MacCaul"
To: "DV-L"
Subject: After Effects 5.0 Ships!
Message-ID:
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0C0DB.29414C90
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi,
If you haven't already heard, After Effects 5.0 is shipping as of today!!
Adobe and Total Training are on tour in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal.
Come see After Effects 5.0 in action, presented by Brian Maffit.
For more information check out this link:
http://www1.asmcorp.com/adobefield/index.asp?site=25
Thanks,
Robert
rmaccaul@adobe.com
Web Community Specialist, Dynamic Media
Adobe Systems Incorporated
www.adobe.com
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0C0DB.29414C90
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
If you haven't = already=20 heard, After Effects 5.0 is shipping as of today!!
Adobe and Total = Training=20 are on tour in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal.
Come see After = Effects 5.0=20 in action, presented by Brian Maffit.
For more = information check=20 out this link:
http://www1.asmcorp.com/adobefield/index.asp?site=3D25
Thanks,
Robert
rmaccaul@adobe.com
Web Community Specialist, Dynamic = Media
Adobe Systems Incorporated
www.adobe.com
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C0C0DB.29414C90--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 12:13:53 -0500
From: "Rodgers, David"
To: "'DV-L@dvcentral.org'"
Subject: Re: MS6 or Premiere 6
Message-ID: <45EDA71CFF25D411A2E400508B6FC52A031E06AE@orportexch1.internal.nextlink.net>
Joe
>>Native movement of all sorts is much easier in MSP6 (but 3rd party apps
abound for both). The MSP interface is generally more friendly, though if
you're already familiar with the weird Adobe interface that might not
matter.<<
Thanks. Native movement ability -- and ease thereof -- is very important to
me. Moreso than interface. I don't think my familiarity with Photoshop
provided any advantage when I first used Premiere.
While I don't use anything but Photoshop for still images, I'll probably end
up getting both Premiere 6 and MS6; as well as add-ons. Still photo imaging
and video are completely different animals, I'm finding.
Not too many years ago my biggest dilemna was deciding which type of film to
shoot for a particular assignment.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:26:44 +0400
From: "david e. kahn"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Need a little advice. . .
Message-ID:
Hello: One of the problems with fluorescent lights is that in some cases it
seems to give people headaches and also makes people tired easier. We have
also found that the sound which is really a pulse does effect people who
work on computors all day long not only making them tired yet giving them a
headache. They thus need to put a screen on their computor. I recogmended
this to a friend who workes in a classified section of a newspaper in front
of a computor all day and she says the screen is a large help although she
is still bothered by the sound. I do not know if the ultralumes that you
are talking about have the same problem. Before I would use them I would
check them out. I do remember that Philips did try and copy full spectrum
lights that come out of Demark. In the arctic because of the long darkness
the artificial lights that are used are usually full spectrum lights for the
above reasons that I have all ready mentioned. Tughollow
> From: Mike Falconer
> Reply-To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 08:19:01 -0700
> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Subject: Re: Need a little advice. . .
>
> I've shot for years with color corrected fluorescent tubes from
> Philips...they're called Ultralumes and they provide beautiful soft warm
> skin tones.
>
> Mike Falconer
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert E Lamm"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 7:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Need a little advice. . .
>
>
>>
>> Fluorescents can definitely be problematic, but they are used in
>> professional production. Especially as fill lights in newsrooms. The
>> reason is that they're less expensive to run and generate less heat. One
>> has to choose the bulbs carefully, but fluorescents in good condition with
>> ballasts that don't buzz are definitely usable for production. I think we
>> carry some of these in our lighting catalog.
>>
>>
>> -Bob Lamm
>> CYNC Corp.
>> Video/Multimedia Equipment Dealership
>> Brookline, MA
>> USA-617-277-4317
>> www.cync.com
>>
>> On Fri, 6 Apr 2001, david e. kahn wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Again. Floucesents are a real problem as to light and noice.
> Full
>>> specturn lights are excellent. Try to never do you videos with
> Flourcesents
>>> as the main light. Tughollow
>>>
>>>> From: Chris Benham
>>>> Reply-To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
>>>> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 18:44:40 -0700
>>>> To: DV-L
>>>> Subject: Need a little advice. . .
>>>>
>>>> I am currently working on producing my first set of training videos.
>>>> I'm shooting on-site at a local assisted living company's home office,
>>>> and I just finished the first tape. I'm editing it in FinalCut, and
>>>> I'm not entirely pleased with the look or sound of this first shoot.
>>>>
>>>> First problem: the room had a noisy air conditioner. It had a steady
>>>> hum and some clicking and clacking that is audible in the background.
>>>> I couldn't get them to turn it off, since the entire office is run off
>>>> the same system, so the whole building would have gotten pretty hot by
>>>> the end of an 8 hour shoot. I dropped in the hum remover filter at
>>>> 60hz, which helped a little, but the audio is still a little messy.
>>>> I'm not sure what else to do. I know that for the next shoot I'm
> going
>>>> to bring in a good quality lav mic to try to get the sound directed
>>>> more at the speaker and less at the room in general. Does anyone have
>>>> a good idea on what to do to clean the audio?
>>>>
>>>> Second problem: I'm shooting in a windowless conference room with
>>>> stark white walls. I hung a picture on the wall behind the speaker
> and
>>>> put a tree and a chair against the wall to break things up, but the
>>>> background still seems overly stark and bright. I used two Mole
>>>> Baby-Babies, shooting one across as key light and bouncing one off the
>>>> white wall to the left to fill it in. The room is also lit with
>>>> fluorescents. What kind of recomendations do you have to fix THIS
>>>> problem? I should probably gel the lights, but I'm not certain what
>>>> gel to use (is it a plus green or a minus green?). I ran a proc amp
>>>> filter in FCP, which helped quite a bit, but I'd rather not sit
> through
>>>> hours and hours of rendering. . . Any ideas on backdrops or other
>>>> items to help alleviate the white wall problem? Should I just turn
> off
>>>> the overhead fluorescents?
>>>>
>>>> The other main problem I think can be fixed by renting an air
>>>> compressor and a nail gun and then nailing the speaker's feet to the
>>>> floor, so that they will stand in one place. . .
>>>>
>>>> any advice on these problems would be GREATLY appreciated. The
> success
>>>> of this project will play a large part in my decision to quit my day
>>>> job and try this gig full time.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> |Chris Benham | benham@lclark.edu |
>>>> |Consultant | |
>>>> |Lewis & Clark College | Good, Fast, Cheap |
>>>> |Portland, OR | Choose two. |
>>>> | | |
>>>> | | |
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
>>>> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
>>>> http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
>>>> http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its
> members.
>>>>
>>>> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
>>>> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
>>>> http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
>>>> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
>>> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
> http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
> http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>>>
>>> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
>>> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
> http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
>>> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>>>
>>
>> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
>> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
> http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
> http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>>
>> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
>> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
> http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
>> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
> http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
> http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
> http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 11:45:38 -0600
From: Steve Slocomb
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: SV: Vinten 3 tripod +lights
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010409112845.00acc160@mail.montana.com>
I converted my 2 Libec fluid heads to lit models by attaching little
keychain lights that REI sells. They are $20 each (not the $10 ones) and I
used a heavy duty double stick tape, though silicone adhesive might be a
good choice. The nice thing is that the lights can be switched to stay on,
so that with one hand on the camera and the other on the head tightner nut
you can watch the bubble.
I sort of spent myself out here on the forum on the subject of florescent
lights a couple of years ago, but here goes a bit of it: I have over the
years built several Kino "knock offs", but the end result is that they are
illuminating my garage now. The reasons:
1. catch lights (reflections) in people's eyes are deadly from
flouros-giving away the lights for what they are, this is especially true
for eyeglass wearers. 2. a chimera or similar soft box unit coupled with a
little lamp (like a cheap Lowell prolight with a 250 or 125 watt globe) is
far easier to carry, much more durable , and gives a reflection that looks
like a window in their eyes/glasses. I also have a big Lowell Riffa light
standing by if I need to soft light a big area....it folds to the size of
an umbrella and is truly remarkable, but I seldom need it. I love the
little Arri 150 fesnels for back lights and wall lighting, etc. They can
also use a 200 watt globe.
I shoot maybe 50-100 interviews a year-did one last week for a new MTV
show, and I have constantly refined my lighting techniques, plus I have
gaffed a couple of feature films and even shot one ("Season of Change" with
Michael Madsen), but I am still learning.
Steve Slocomb
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 14:16:35 -0400
From: Bertel Schmitt
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Gongshu Zhang
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010409141329.01b323a0@mail.dvcentral.org>
Since he (and possible the whole Dept. of Pulic Instruction of the North
Carolina State Government) have very little to contribute to DV-L, the
account was cancelled.
BS. DV-L Content Assurance Dept.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:29:16 EDT
From: Triglyph@aol.com
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Need a little advice. . .Ultralumes
Message-ID:
In a message dated 4/9/01 8:20:09 AM, falcon1@dsl-only.net writes:
<< I've shot for years with color corrected fluorescent tubes from
Philips...they're called Ultralumes and they provide beautiful soft warm
skin tones.
>>
Do they run on an ordinary ballast or do you use a high frequency ballast?
Any flicker problems. I use Optima 32's in existing fixtures a lot and
flicker problems are rare for me. Do the Ultralumes come in daylight (5500K)
and tungsten (3200K)?
Thanks,
b.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 15:21:17 EDT
From: ADReiff@aol.com
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: After Effects 5.0 Ships!
Message-ID: <37.1355c1cf.280365ad@aol.com>
In a message dated 4/9/01 6:57:59 AM Hawaiian Standard Time,
rmaccaul@Adobe.COM writes:
<< Adobe and Total Training are on tour in Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. >>
O' , Those Happy Canadians!
Luck with the release.
ADR
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:35:55 -1000
From: Jon Burkhart
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Digital Media Lab
Message-ID: <3AD20F1B.D8493EC5@maui.net>
Robert E Lamm wrote:
> As far as the person in Hawaii is concerned, if his school is standardized
> on PC's, he should stick to them if he can. If he had said they were
> standardized on Macs, I would have suggested he stick with those too. Each
> platform has its own strengths, but they tend to cancel each other out as
> far as student benefits are concerned.
>
Thanks for your input Robert. There's a VERY small staff for both faculty support in the Media Center and computer support. The new building coming on line is going to be an awesome task to
keep running.
Aloha,
Jon Burkhart
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 12:47:02 -0700
From: Alexei Gerulaitis
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: 1394, Microsoft and Coffee
Message-ID: <013801c0c12d$da8a9c20$7201a8c0@sherlock>
Coffee (Peter Coffee of eWeek) says that Microsoft is finally waking up
to 1394 and urges OEMs to include a 1394 port on every "Windows XP
Ready" computer:
http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2704177,00.html
We at DV Central and on DV-L know and knew all along and were telling
everyone from Day One: FireWire is the king of Desktop Computing (not
just Digital Video) and Connectivity, but it takes combined efforts of
Adobe, 1394b Task Group, Bertel Schmitt and Microsoft for everyone else
to finally "get" it.
Just remember that it's you guys and gals who cheerfully stuck with us
through inexplicable suffering and torture of the early days of FireWire
and DV adoption, deserve the most credit.
Alexei. Citizens for a better and faster DV-L
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:57:57 -0500 (CDT)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: 1394, Microsoft and Coffee
Message-ID: <200104091957.OAA22248@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>Coffee (Peter Coffee of eWeek) says that Microsoft is finally waking up
>to 1394 and urges OEMs to include a 1394 port on every "Windows XP
>Ready" computer:
>Alexei. Citizens for a better and faster DV-L
All well and good when Gates and crew finally delivers an OHCI driver that
is worth a crap. The fact that their current driver does not report dropped
frames; incorrect 29.97 NTSC frame rate; no high quality DV codec; limited
JVC camcorder compatibility (JVC GR-DVF21U/31U) does not make for happy users.
Info for above problems from:
http://digitalorigin.com/support/news/premiere6.html
Needless to say, I am sticking with Premiere 5.1c and the DO firewire card.
When Gates gets his head out of his butt and gets his people to fix this
so-called driver, I'll think about using an OHCI card.
So much for innovation. :-(
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 12:59:04 -0700
From: Rhys Ludlow
To: DV-L@DVCentral.org
Subject: Re: Hi-end YRB input vs. YRB to firewire bridge (apples to apples)
Message-ID: <3AD21488.CDC30922@ludlowmedia.com>
Hi all,
My goal is maintaining the best quality through the compression process
- No Compromises!!
Has anyone done some actual testing to compare these:
Beta-SP YRB into Media-100 Vincent or Targa 2000 Then compressed to MPEG
and/or streaming formats.
vs.
The same source going through a YRB to firewire converter and into
firewire input on the computer.
Same output formats.
For simplicity's sake we are considering selling our Targa-2000 &
Media100 QXC and going the Firewire conversion route. I know that the
better your original material the better your compressed movie. Files
from the Analog cards can take up a huge amount of disk space
(300kb/frame) compared to the Firewire inputted files. It seems to me
that all this extra data would produce better compressed files. Some of
my colleagues have a different opinion.
It sure would be easier to standardize around the Firewire method but it
seems to good to be true.
Again my goal is BEST QUALITY. I already know the answer to the
price/performance argument.
Thanks.
Rhys Ludlow
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 14:02:24 -0600
From: "Francois Camoin"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: 1394, Microsoft and Coffee
Message-ID: <3AD21551.9644504E@qwest.net>
Alexei Gerulaitis wrote:
> Just remember that it's you guys and gals who cheerfully stuck with us
> through inexplicable suffering and torture of the early days of FireWire
> and DV adoption, deserve the most credit.
>
> Alexei. Citizens for a better and faster DV-L
>
The man speaks nothing but the truth. Good to hear the voice of wisdom
now and then. Thanks, Alexei.
Francois
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:11:27 -0400
From: Keith
To: DV Mailing List
Subject: "Portable Newsroom"
Message-ID:
Thought some of you might find this interesting:
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0104/09.newsroom.shtml
Keith
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:17:07 -0700
From: Alexei Gerulaitis
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: 1394, Microsoft and Coffee
Message-ID: <014701c0c132$10d08340$7201a8c0@sherlock>
MB:
You deserve the credit, too... :-)
Note however that neither the article nor yours truly said anything
about digital video or OHCI drivers.
What we have been saying all along and what now Microsoft is saying, is
that it's time to replace the mad jungle of data and power cables in
(and outside of) your PC with a few 6-pin cables supporting up to 63
hot-swappable intelligent devices on a 3.2Mbs bus.
Best,
Alexei, http://dv411.com
: From: Vidiot [mailto:brown@mrvideo.vidiot.com]
:
: All well and good when Gates and crew finally delivers an
: OHCI driver that
: is worth a crap. The fact that their current driver does not
: report dropped
: frames; incorrect 29.97 NTSC frame rate; no high quality DV
: codec; limited
: JVC camcorder compatibility (JVC GR-DVF21U/31U) does not make
: for happy users.
:
: Info for above problems from:
:
: http://digitalorigin.com/support/news/premiere6.html
:
: Needless to say, I am sticking with Premiere 5.1c and the DO
: firewire card.
: When Gates gets his head out of his butt and gets his people
: to fix this
: so-called driver, I'll think about using an OHCI card.
:
: So much for innovation. :-(
:
: MB
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:40:21 -0400
From: David Sticher
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Questions about a Newbie and Sock Puppets
Message-ID: <3AD21E35.ED681DD8@nyu.edu>
Hi all -
As the subject header suggests, I'm a total newbie when it comes to DV technology, although I'm eager to learn. I'm sorry if my questions totally smack of ignorance, but the only way I'm
going to lessen the ignorance potential is by asking some pretty silly questions...
The deal is, I'm a freshman film student who's going to suffer from massive boredom over this coming summer break. I'm planning a shoot this summer as a countermeasure. Since most of the
actors I know are in NYC and not in the rolling hills of Upstate, I was planning on making a rough mix down here of an audio drama on ProTools and then, back home, shooting sock puppets
speaking the lines, acting the actions, etc. Editing together the audio and the visuals, the end result will resemble something composed of equal parts "Blue Jam," _After Hours_, and "Sifl
and Olly." I've got friends who are actors who'd like to record the lines, a friend who's a composer who'd like to score it, and a friend who's a photographer who'd like to DP. This
*should* work.
(cue sinister thunder)
At least, that's the plan.
The main idea, of course, is to just get some shooting experience down and to make something I'm happy with over the summer. Granted, sock puppet dramas are a little silly, gimmicky, and
low in demand, but it's as good a way to get experience as any other and there are certain benefits, if anyone wants to hear it (which I doubt). No matter; getting this to work is my
problem, and it will no doubt be a learning experience that will render me forever hateful of sock puppetry. That's neither here nor there. What I'd like to ask *you* folks concerns the
set, the camcorder, and the lighting...
THE CAMCORDER - I've got two questions here, but I'm not sure which goes first. Which camera would be ideal within my means, and should I rent or buy it? Obviously, I'd *like* to own an
XL1 or equivalent, but then again I'd also like to own one of those $10,000 babies, and neither's happening anytime soon. I could, however, afford to rent something along the lines of an
XL1, or to buy something along the lines of a Canon Elura 2. The advantages of actually *owning* a solid camcorder are extremely tempting, such as being able to shoot at will, getting as
much hands-on experience as possible, and so forth, and so far as I know the Elura 2 is a very solid machine and would make a good replacement for the shoulder-mounted, as-old-as-I-am,
records-directly-onto-VHS beast that my family owns currently. Doing as many projects as I'd like from now on would be great.
However, the issue of picture quality hangs heavily. I'd like to be able to transfer my work and have it be presentable on the big screen. I won't buy anything unless I'm going to be using
it (or still able to use it) for years down the road. It doesn't need to be perfect or totally professional, because I'm sure as hell neither, but it needs to be significantly better than
simple home video. Is the Elura 2 just a tiny, glorified home video camera? Would a tiny, glorified home video camera be good enough for my purposes? I know people who value it as a
back-up in documentary work (another field I'd like to pursue), so it's clearly not terrible, but would it work as the main camera on a set? Should I just somehow scam myself an XL1 for a
week or two and wait a year or two until I can afford something better?
THE SET - This ties in with the question above. I've planned for my set to be a 4"x5" modular dollhouse (ie the walls can be removed and replaced at will) made of insulating foamboard and
Plasticene (to give the impression of a Play-Doh world). Will this be too cramped a set-up for an Elura or something bigger? Will the lights wreak havoc on the Plasticene? Should I just
give up and use paint and contact paper on the walls? Has anyone here had experience working with puppets?
THE LIGHTING - For my photography assignments, and this is more or less the same with my friend, a lot of improvisation came into play when it came to finding lights and using them. This
has worked very well in the past. Lighting this set for video will entail more purpose and direction. I'll be in touch with my friendly local photography store, you can be sure, with
regard to renting light kits. Unfortunately, I had been planning on moody lighting for my project (keeping in mind the "Blue Jam" and _After Hours_ influences); I'm not talking _McCabe &
Mrs. Miller_ lighting here, but just enough moodiness to break it out of the brightly and flatly lit worlds of sitcoms. I know the Elura has problems with low light; will this totally kill
any possibility of this kind of lighting, or do I just have to watch my toes, carefully check my results, and keep it from dipping into the danger zone?
Again, I'm sorry for the long post and the total newbitude, but I really am new to shooting digitally. I'm an analog baby.
All help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
- Dave
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:19:14 -0400
From: Bertel Schmitt
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: North Carolina Dept of Public Confusion
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010409161704.03cd0db0@mail.dvcentral.org>
They are badly confused down south ......
BS
>X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.5
>Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 15:54:44 -0400
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>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 22:33:49 +0200
From: "SMC"
To:
Subject: OMF export
Message-ID: <03b801c0c134$63a39920$917ec6d4@cybercable.fr>
Here's a quick question for y'all:
Which NLE software for windows supports OMF export? (Apart from AvidXpress
DV).
Thanks,
Steven-Marc Couchouron
www.DVforever.com
Le Guide de la Video Numerique
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 15:26:21 -0500
From: "Scott Sanders"
To:
Subject: RE: Hi-end YRB input vs. YRB to firewire bridge (apples to apples)
Message-ID:
Could any responses to this PLEASE be posted to the list rather then
private. I am considering the same question. Either a Media100LX vs. a
DA-Max option. Also with something like the DA-Max is there really a
difference with going SDI as opposed to just using component. Will you
really notice a difference with the compressed DV data?
Thanks,
Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Rhys Ludlow [mailto:rhys@ludlowmedia.com]
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:59 PM
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Hi-end YRB input vs. YRB to firewire bridge (apples to
apples)
Hi all,
My goal is maintaining the best quality through the compression process
- No Compromises!!
Has anyone done some actual testing to compare these:
Beta-SP YRB into Media-100 Vincent or Targa 2000 Then compressed to MPEG
and/or streaming formats.
vs.
The same source going through a YRB to firewire converter and into
firewire input on the computer.
Same output formats.
For simplicity's sake we are considering selling our Targa-2000 &
Media100 QXC and going the Firewire conversion route. I know that the
better your original material the better your compressed movie. Files
from the Analog cards can take up a huge amount of disk space
(300kb/frame) compared to the Firewire inputted files. It seems to me
that all this extra data would produce better compressed files. Some of
my colleagues have a different opinion.
It sure would be easier to standardize around the Firewire method but it
seems to good to be true.
Again my goal is BEST QUALITY. I already know the answer to the
price/performance argument.
Thanks.
Rhys Ludlow
-- (cut off when replying)-----------------
This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 14:00:15 -0700
From: Jim Anderson
To: "DV-L@dvcentral.org"
Subject: DSR-11 Question
Message-ID: <3AD222D8.E64F8282@home.com>
Greetings from the Roost!
Trying to work out some equipment logistics for shooting legal
depositions.
National Court Reporters Association guidelines (not easy to get hold
of) stipulate that "The video portion of the deposition shall be encoded
with a digital clock that shows continuously hours, minutes, and
seconds..."
The guidelines also call for at least two hours recording time per tape.
I had planned to use my XL1, but to go out firewire and actually record
the master onto a DSR-11 or DSR-20 (the 11 is cheaper) so that I could
use the larger DV cassettes, but I don't know if I can get either of
these units to display thusly. My XL1 will display date and time in the
lower left corner, but not with seconds. Could a DSR11 do it? What about
a DSR-20?
Yes, I know they'll all display time code, but that's not in a date/time
format, and it displays in the top right corner - NG.
Anybody have a solution? Anybody shooting depos with DV? How you do dat?
"Show me the money!"
bb
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:04:03 -0500
From: Jeff Economy
To: DV-L
Subject: National Court Reporters Association guidelines
Message-ID:
>National Court Reporters Association guidelines (not easy to get hold
>of) stipulate that "The video portion of the deposition shall be encoded
>with a digital clock that shows continuously hours, minutes, and
>seconds..."
>The guidelines also call for at least two hours recording time per tape.
I was recently asked to videotape a deposition; any chance of letting me
in on the secret of where to get these elusive guidelines?
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 17:05:10 -0400
From: Dave Haynie
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: 1394, Microsoft and Coffee
Message-ID: <20010409165905.A791.DHAYNIE@jersey.net>
On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:17:07 -0700, Alexei Gerulaitis jammed all night, and by sunrise was heard saying:
> What we have been saying all along and what now Microsoft is saying, is
> that it's time to replace the mad jungle of data and power cables in
> (and outside of) your PC with a few 6-pin cables supporting up to 63
> hot-swappable intelligent devices on a 3.2Mbs bus.
Well, I think you want Firewire, eh? That's currently 400Mb/s, and the
1394b group is pushing up to 800Mb/s and adding some standards for long
cabling. All very good things. Where does 3.2Mb/s come from? Even USB
goes up to 12Mb/s...
For once (and it's about time), Microsoft is being the good guy here,
pushing for Firewire to become a standard in every PC (and hopefully,
the real 6-pin spec, not the 4-pin, so simple devices can be powered via
the cable). Intel, on the other hand, got a bug up the butt about
Firewire, probably back when Apple was asking $1/port in royalties, and
pushed for lesser replacements, like USB 2.0. Without Intel firmly in
the Firewire camp, you'll need a few other big guns pushing hard to make
it a standard.
But that's just the PC. We all like it, because it's already the DVcam
standard. It's very likely to become the overall standard for many kinds
of smart digital devices, in a fairly short time. Ultimately, I don't
think PCs will have the choice. But over then next few years, it'll
still be seen as an option by some PC companies.
--
Dave Haynie dhaynie@metaboxusa.com http://www.metaboxusa.com
Chief Technology Officer, Metabox Corporation
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:18:31 -0400
From: Robert E Lamm
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Hi-end YRB input vs. YRB to firewire bridge (apples to apples)
Message-ID:
The TARGA 2000 uses a high-res RGB array to store a Red, Green and Blue
values for every pixel. This offers very good image quality (particularly
for internally-generated graphics like animations) but some synthetic YUV
sources (like color bars and multiburst test signals) will get distorted
because RGB color space cannot duplicate some of the weird YUV colors in
these signals, like saturated blacks and whites (!).
I personally think that if it's worth shooting in Betacam, it's worth
capturing in a high-data-rate format that will preserve the quality. And
you'll notice this difference if you do lots of exacting effects work. But
if you're going to compress for low data rates like web streaming, I think
you'll lose the difference in the compression. I suspect that the quality
of the web-streaming file will depend more on the settings used to create
it than the specific hardware used to capture the original footage: All
the options you're considering, including DV, are more than sufficient.
-Bob Lamm
CYNC Corp.
Video/Multimedia Equipment Dealership
Brookline, MA
USA-617-277-4317
www.cync.com
On Mon, 9 Apr 2001, Rhys Ludlow wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> My goal is maintaining the best quality through the compression process
> - No Compromises!!
>
> Has anyone done some actual testing to compare these:
>
> Beta-SP YRB into Media-100 Vincent or Targa 2000 Then compressed to MPEG
> and/or streaming formats.
>
> vs.
>
> The same source going through a YRB to firewire converter and into
> firewire input on the computer.
> Same output formats.
>
> For simplicity's sake we are considering selling our Targa-2000 &
> Media100 QXC and going the Firewire conversion route. I know that the
> better your original material the better your compressed movie. Files
> from the Analog cards can take up a huge amount of disk space
> (300kb/frame) compared to the Firewire inputted files. It seems to me
> that all this extra data would produce better compressed files. Some of
> my colleagues have a different opinion.
>
> It sure would be easier to standardize around the Firewire method but it
> seems to good to be true.
>
> Again my goal is BEST QUALITY. I already know the answer to the
> price/performance argument.
>
> Thanks.
> Rhys Ludlow
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com, http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe: http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:45:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: DSR-11 Question
Message-ID: <200104092145.QAA24073@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>I had planned to use my XL1, but to go out firewire and actually record
>the master onto a DSR-11 or DSR-20 (the 11 is cheaper) so that I could
>use the larger DV cassettes, but I don't know if I can get either of
>these units to display thusly. My XL1 will display date and time in the
>lower left corner, but not with seconds. Could a DSR11 do it? What about
>a DSR-20?
The DSR-20, via the monitor output jack, will display SMPTE timecode.
You can also turn on the time and date, but it will not display seconds.
You can determine the seconds based upon when each minute rolls over
and the currently displayed SMPTE code.
You can put the timecode into relative mode, but I do not remember if it
displays seconds in that mode. I am currently not at home to check.
>Yes, I know they'll all display time code, but that's not in a date/time
>format, and it displays in the top right corner - NG.
The timecode can display in the lower-right, with date info on the left.
Don't know what the DSR-11 does.
Does this help?
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 14:48:17 -0700
From: Alexei Gerulaitis
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: 1394, Microsoft and Coffee
Message-ID: <015d01c0c13e$c9ab6540$7201a8c0@sherlock>
While 3.2Mbs was an error, 3.2Gbs (S3200) is a legitimate speed that
1394b is working on. No need to get snippy.
1.6Gbs is supported in current 1394b proposal, 3.2Gbs will be supported
eventually over Glass Fiber (MMF) and the standard STP (short haul)
cable.
Just do some reading, it's all public, readily available, all you need
to do is click.
http://www.zayante.com/p1394b/misc/cws990518-dvb-ihdn-p1394b.pdf
Best,
Alexei, http://dv411.com
: From: Dave Haynie [mailto:dhaynie@jersey.net]
:
: Well, I think you want Firewire, eh? That's currently 400Mb/s, and the
: 1394b group is pushing up to 800Mb/s and adding some
: standards for long
: cabling. All very good things. Where does 3.2Mb/s come from? Even USB
: goes up to 12Mb/s...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 14:50:24 -0700
From: Jim Anderson
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: National Court Reporters Association guidelines
Message-ID: <3AD22E96.96959C3D@home.com>
Jeff Economy wrote:
> >National Court Reporters Association guidelines (not easy to get hold
> >of) stipulate that "The video portion of the deposition shall be encoded
> >with a digital clock that shows continuously hours, minutes, and
> >seconds..."
> >The guidelines also call for at least two hours recording time per tape.
>
> I was recently asked to videotape a deposition; any chance of letting me
> in on the secret of where to get these elusive guidelines?
Start here:
www.ncraonline.org
The guidelines aren't online, though, and I don't think they'll mail them to you. you have to take their training and certification program ($$$), or find someone who has (and who really
likes you!).
I've been chasing them down for some time.
There are apparently Federal guidelines which should be more available, but I don't know where. DOJ? The NCRA guidelines conform to the Fed's (as I understand it) but are a little more
detailed.
At the moment, I'm not at liberty to share my copy. Sorry!
bb
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:54:03 -0400
From: Robert E Lamm
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Need a little advice. . .
Message-ID:
We sell lighting equipment, so I heartily endorse all use of gels,
specialized lights, etc. that allow the user to achieve a perfect picture.
But personally, I like fewer lights. If you look at some of the most
arresting photography, be it in the photography books or in movies like
'Citizen Kane', it's often surprisingly barely lit: The important elements
are picked out and the rest is allowed to recede into darkeness. The
pictures, or I should say: the important things in the pictures, just
stand out.
Now a Film Noir look might not be appropriate for a corporate video, but
neither are these completely flat videos that remind me of police
line-ups...
-Bob Lamm
CYNC Corp.
Video/Multimedia Equipment Dealership
Brookline, MA
USA-617-277-4317
www.cync.com
On Sun, 8 Apr 2001 Triglyph@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/8/01 9:32:55 AM, jenhorn@jenhorn.com writes:
>
> << Who makes Kino-Flos? The only lights I'm familiar with are Lowels
> (you can get a sense of my budget).
>
> I've been following this very interesting thread...great advice on
> this common situation. I noticed no one has mentioned the lens
> filters that supposedly help with the look that fluorescent lights
> give. I have one that they threw in with my VX1000 (along with UV
> filter and PL filter), but I've never needed to try it. Do they work
> at all? >>
>
> I sent an earlier reply about Kino's and where to find them. The camera
> filters you are referring to are Singh Ray filters which comes as FL-B and
> FL-D for tungsten balance and daylight balance. Lee also makes some
> flourescent camera filters. Like you, I have owned some for maybe 10 years
> and have never actually used them (I prefer other means of balancing the
> color of the lights: more precise) but I did a test once and they do work. I
> don't remember the filter factor.
>
> In my lighting book I did a series of tests in conjuction with Rosco Labs
> (manufacturer of lighting gels) and there are accurate color illustrations of
> the results of various combinations of using uncorrected flourescent vs. HMI
> and tungsten and then corrections with gels to bring it back to perfectly
> balanced color. We even tried one that the Rosco guy had never even
> attempted: warm white flourescents corrected to tungsten by adding MinusGreen
> and 1/4 CTO. Worked like a charm. The different combinations of sources and
> corrections gels and deciding what strategy to use can get a little
> complicated sometimes so I made a "decision chart" covering various
> approaches depending on what the situation you are dealing with.
>
> There is also an illustration of Optima 32's balanced with tungsten: this was
> before Kino Flos were used in NY. Optima 32's are more expensive than
> regular flourescents but still a lot cheaper than Kino's.
>
> Rolls of gels are expensive (over a hundred dollars a roll) but sheets are
> only a couple of dollars each. A few sheets of MinusGreen and PlusGreen
> (both full and half) are an absolute MUST for a basic lighting kit; even the
> "fits in the trunk of the car" lighting kit. (You can always tape sheets
> togethere with JLar tape which is like big Scotch tape and heat resistant).
> Don't forget wooden clothes pins: everybody forgets them and you can't light
> without them. They must be wood. I've worked with many Japanese crews: they
> use metal clothes pins, and if you grab one without your gloves it all
> becomes clear.
>
> Please forgive the shameless plug, but just so I don't have to answer lots of
> emails about "where can I find it." It's called "Motion Picture and Video
> Lighting" Blain Brown, Focal Press. 1992. "Professional Cinematography for
> Film and Video" covers color control and video control even more thoroughly
> but it won't be out until the spring. The lighting book is at Amazon.com or
> any bookstore with a good film and video section. Also at the Focal Press
> website.
>
> For those who don't own a color meter (and at over a thousand dollars apiece,
> that's most people), there are lists of every type of flourescent bulb made
> by every manufacturer and the combination of gel needed to correct it proper
> color balance. I have these but I decided not to include them in the book as
> most people don't use them, but it there is a need I can include them or try
> to look up where I found the information on the net. If you don't have an
> accurate color monitor, Polaroid previews with Type 669 or another
> professional color polaroid stock can work.
>
>
> good luck,
> Blain
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com, http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe: http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 14:56:56 -0700
From: Jim Anderson
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: DSR-11 Question
Message-ID: <3AD2301D.71F32A51@home.com>
Vidiot wrote:
> >I had planned to use my XL1, but to go out firewire and actually record
> >the master onto a DSR-11 or DSR-20 (the 11 is cheaper) so that I could
> >use the larger DV cassettes, but I don't know if I can get either of
> >these units to display thusly. My XL1 will display date and time in the
> >lower left corner, but not with seconds. Could a DSR11 do it? What about
> >a DSR-20?
>
> The DSR-20, via the monitor output jack, will display SMPTE timecode.
> You can also turn on the time and date, but it will not display seconds.
> You can determine the seconds based upon when each minute rolls over
> and the currently displayed SMPTE code.
>
> You can put the timecode into relative mode, but I do not remember if it
> displays seconds in that mode. I am currently not at home to check.
>
> >Yes, I know they'll all display time code, but that's not in a date/time
> >format, and it displays in the top right corner - NG.
>
> The timecode can display in the lower-right, with date info on the left.
>
> Don't know what the DSR-11 does.
>
> Does this help?
>
> MB
Well, it's something. Thanks!
bb
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 18:13:43 -0400
From: Bertel Schmitt
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: 1394, Microsoft, Coffee, and the nominal fee that went poof
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010409171819.03769220@mail.dvcentral.org>
At 05:05 PM 4/9/01 -0400, Dave, with his usual eagle eyes on the monitor,
wrote:
> Where does 3.2Mb/s come from? Even USB goes up to 12Mb/s...
Well, of course, this was a typo, possibly guided by disbelief that 1394
will actually go up to 3.2 Gb/s - some day. Details at
http://www.zayante.com/p1394b/drafts/p1394b1-11.pdf , deep down in section
4.2 - of course, nobody has tested this yet, and therefore, the proposed
standard contains some CYA language.
>For once (and it's about time), Microsoft is being the good guy here,
>pushing for Firewire to become a standard in every PC (and hopefully,
>the real 6-pin spec, not the 4-pin, so simple devices can be powered via
>the cable). Intel, on the other hand, got a bug up the butt about
>Firewire, probably back when Apple was asking $1/port in royalties, and
>pushed for lesser replacements, like USB 2.0.
Yep, that was a BIG mistake on Apple's part, it amounted to attempted
highway robbery, and it was a blatant violation of the requirements for
IEEE standardization. It's amazing that they got away with it. IEEE trivia:
To get standardized, the intellectual property covered by the standard
either has to be put into the public domain, or has to be made available on
a non-discriminatory basis at a nominal fee. Apple, who at that point had
divested itself of most of the 1394 technology (the early Adaptec silicon
that worked so well was based on the technology Adaptec had bought from
Apple) chose the second option.
That nominal fee was $7,500. The early adopters, such as TI or Sony, got a
lifetime license for $7,500 and everything was peachy. Great future for
1394. Firewire (oops, no, Apple had kept the TM for that) in every pot and
on every motherboard. But suddenly, as 1394 was poised to take off, Apple
reneged on their commitment, wanted $1 per port (i.e. $3 for a chip that
was worth $5 back then and probably goes for significantly less now.) That
caused a lot of insecurity in the industry. By the time a compromise was
reached at $0.25 per port, the grand plans for 1394 were shelved, and angry
Intel went ahead with USB 2.0
>But that's just the PC. We all like it, because it's already the DVcam
>standard. It's very likely to become the overall standard for many kinds
>of smart digital devices, in a fairly short time. Ultimately, I don't
>think PCs will have the choice. But over then next few years, it'll
>still be seen as an option by some PC companies.
It was supposed to be the standard for many devices, from IDE drives to the
connections behind your audio system. And the $3 which turned into $0.75
threw it back for at least 10 years. If someone wants to debate the above:
I still have a copy of the letter captioned "Apple limited License May 1995
Rev. 8.0" which even gave the Licensee the choice to pay $7,500 outright,
or, if they wanted to save $500, they had the option to donate $2000 to the
"Intitute (Apple's typo) Undergraduate Scholarship Fund, IEEE Foundation
Inc." and hand over $5K to Apple.
Far from a platform war, Ladies & Gentlemen, just a bit of history. Or, as
they say, just my 25 cents.
BS. DV-L Histrionican
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:39:32 +1000
From: "Eric S."
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: OT - Sagan quote.
Message-ID:
>> "It's better to light a candle then to curse the darkness."
>> --Carl Sagan
>
>A bit of trivia perhaps. Sagan probably lifted this quote. In a
>TV context, it (or very similar statement) was used in the intro
>to a Sunday morning TV series in the 1950s titled, if memory
>serves, "The Christophers." Not sure where it originates.
I believe it was an early advertising jingle put out in 1263 by Erny=
Entwhistle of the Birmingham Candle-Makers League. The town crier was paid=
a half quadruple to sing this out each hour on the hour through the night=
until on the third night his head was rent assunder by a large axe, thus by=
and large begining the Dark Ages.
Attitudes to unsolicited advertising have not changed in 800 years; certain=
multi-national phone companies should take note.
eric from oz =20
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:08:06 -0700
From: Carla Sherman
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Best prices
Message-ID: <4432061732.20010409160806@riverganga.org>
Hi, I am new on the list and I am learning a lot. I am working on a
project to set up a subtitling and close captioning system for our
foundation.
Can anyone please recommend a store where I can get the best prices
for the following products?
Sony DVCAM DSR-20
SonyPVM 1440 QM video monitor
Sony DV CAM 90 minute tapes
--
Thanks a lot,
Carla Sherman
River Ganga Foundation
-----------------------------------------------
Visit our websites:
http://www.riverganga.org
http://www.silentheart.net
Or even better, meet Gangaji: http://www.gangaji.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:28:52 -0700
From: Carla Sherman
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Sony mini dv & dv cam recorder
Message-ID: <6633308394.20010409162852@riverganga.org>
Can anyone please tell me what the model number is for the new Sony
mini-DV/DVCAM recorder is? I am having a little trouble finding on
the Internet.
--
Best regards,
Carla Sherman
River Ganga Foundation
-----------------------------------------------
Visit our websites:
http://www.riverganga.org
http://www.silentheart.net
Or even better, meet Gangaji: http://www.gangaji.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:33:42 -0700
From: Kevin Marks
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: OT - TV related Sagan quote.
Message-ID:
At 6:13 pm -0400 8/4/01, Triglyph@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 4/8/01 8:57:50 AM, mhood@adent.com writes:
>
><< My only point was: It should be "than" instead of "then." The typo
>totally screws the meaning of the quote. Now that I'm appearing to be quite
>the anal retentive, I'll add that it's pretty much no big deal ;-) >>
>
><< "It's better to light a candle then to curse the darkness.">>
>
>Actually I like it better this way: if you light a candle and THEN curse the
>darkness you are covering all bases and getting it off your chest. Deepak
>Chropra would approve.
Here in California you light a candle and curse PG&E...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 16:40:25 -0700
From: Charles F. McConathy
To:
Subject: Re: Sony mini dv & dv cam recorder
Message-ID: <1010409164034.78708f5.3f774447.ASIP6.3.1.1877676@mail.promax.com>
Carla Sherman Wrote:
DSR-11 - you can see a picture on our web page.
>
>
>Can anyone please tell me what the model number is for the new Sony
>mini-DV/DVCAM recorder is? I am having a little trouble finding on
>the Internet.
>
>--
>Best regards,
>
>Carla Sherman
>River Ganga Foundation
>
>-----------------------------------------------
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:01:29 -0500 (CDT)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: DSR-11 Question
Message-ID: <200104100001.TAA25644@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>Well, it's something. Thanks!
>bb
OK, the display, for a pure DSR-20 recording, has time, source, SMPTE
along the bottom line. Time is hours:min AM/PM. The source will normally
be LINE if you feed a camera into it via the line input. Above and to
the left is the date. Above the date will be camera info if the tape
was recorded in a camera. It is blank for a DSR-20 recording.
While the seconds won't match the exact minute rollover, it does contain
extra info by having a frame count. Besides, the time will not be exact
anyway, as the clock does drift. Also, you know how long the recording is,
since the SMPTE counter always start at zero on a fresh tape.
But, if you find the spot on the tape where the time changes minutes, as
near the beginning as possible, you can use relative counter mode and
reset it to zero. It does display seconds. The frame count is dropped.
That gets you much closer to what you want.
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:03:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: DSR-11 Question
Message-ID: <200104100003.TAA25706@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>Well, it's something. Thanks!
>bb
I lied in my previous answer. The camera info is not displayed at the same
time as the time/date. That is a separate set of data outputs, that are
all dashes with a DSR-20 recording.
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 20:28:10 +0400
From: "david e. kahn"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Questions about a Newbie and Sock Puppets
Message-ID:
Hello: Does not your school have equipment that you can borrow? Most
universities do. You could get in touch with a local cable station and work
out a video camera from a individual who has a program and ask that
individual to work with you on this film. Coming in soon is the new
inexpensive cd video camera like the new Sanyo that is in many of the
magazines just out. Just to buy a video camera before trying different ways
is just throwing money away. You will need other equipment and thus my
reason for this suggestion. Tughollow
> From: David Sticher
> Reply-To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:40:21 -0400
> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Subject: Questions about a Newbie and Sock Puppets
>
> Hi all -
>
> As the subject header suggests, I'm a total newbie when it comes to DV
> technology, although I'm eager to learn. I'm sorry if my questions totally
> smack of ignorance, but the only way I'm
> going to lessen the ignorance potential is by asking some pretty silly
> questions...
>
> The deal is, I'm a freshman film student who's going to suffer from massive
> boredom over this coming summer break. I'm planning a shoot this summer as a
> countermeasure. Since most of the
> actors I know are in NYC and not in the rolling hills of Upstate, I was
> planning on making a rough mix down here of an audio drama on ProTools and
> then, back home, shooting sock puppets
> speaking the lines, acting the actions, etc. Editing together the audio and
> the visuals, the end result will resemble something composed of equal parts
> "Blue Jam," _After Hours_, and "Sifl
> and Olly." I've got friends who are actors who'd like to record the lines, a
> friend who's a composer who'd like to score it, and a friend who's a
> photographer who'd like to DP. This
> *should* work.
>
> (cue sinister thunder)
>
> At least, that's the plan.
>
> The main idea, of course, is to just get some shooting experience down and to
> make something I'm happy with over the summer. Granted, sock puppet dramas are
> a little silly, gimmicky, and
> low in demand, but it's as good a way to get experience as any other and there
> are certain benefits, if anyone wants to hear it (which I doubt). No matter;
> getting this to work is my
> problem, and it will no doubt be a learning experience that will render me
> forever hateful of sock puppetry. That's neither here nor there. What I'd like
> to ask *you* folks concerns the
> set, the camcorder, and the lighting...
>
> THE CAMCORDER - I've got two questions here, but I'm not sure which goes
> first. Which camera would be ideal within my means, and should I rent or buy
> it? Obviously, I'd *like* to own an
> XL1 or equivalent, but then again I'd also like to own one of those $10,000
> babies, and neither's happening anytime soon. I could, however, afford to rent
> something along the lines of an
> XL1, or to buy something along the lines of a Canon Elura 2. The advantages of
> actually *owning* a solid camcorder are extremely tempting, such as being able
> to shoot at will, getting as
> much hands-on experience as possible, and so forth, and so far as I know the
> Elura 2 is a very solid machine and would make a good replacement for the
> shoulder-mounted, as-old-as-I-am,
> records-directly-onto-VHS beast that my family owns currently. Doing as many
> projects as I'd like from now on would be great.
>
> However, the issue of picture quality hangs heavily. I'd like to be able to
> transfer my work and have it be presentable on the big screen. I won't buy
> anything unless I'm going to be using
> it (or still able to use it) for years down the road. It doesn't need to be
> perfect or totally professional, because I'm sure as hell neither, but it
> needs to be significantly better than
> simple home video. Is the Elura 2 just a tiny, glorified home video camera?
> Would a tiny, glorified home video camera be good enough for my purposes? I
> know people who value it as a
> back-up in documentary work (another field I'd like to pursue), so it's
> clearly not terrible, but would it work as the main camera on a set? Should I
> just somehow scam myself an XL1 for a
> week or two and wait a year or two until I can afford something better?
>
> THE SET - This ties in with the question above. I've planned for my set to be
> a 4"x5" modular dollhouse (ie the walls can be removed and replaced at will)
> made of insulating foamboard and
> Plasticene (to give the impression of a Play-Doh world). Will this be too
> cramped a set-up for an Elura or something bigger? Will the lights wreak havoc
> on the Plasticene? Should I just
> give up and use paint and contact paper on the walls? Has anyone here had
> experience working with puppets?
>
> THE LIGHTING - For my photography assignments, and this is more or less the
> same with my friend, a lot of improvisation came into play when it came to
> finding lights and using them. This
> has worked very well in the past. Lighting this set for video will entail more
> purpose and direction. I'll be in touch with my friendly local photography
> store, you can be sure, with
> regard to renting light kits. Unfortunately, I had been planning on moody
> lighting for my project (keeping in mind the "Blue Jam" and _After Hours_
> influences); I'm not talking _McCabe &
> Mrs. Miller_ lighting here, but just enough moodiness to break it out of the
> brightly and flatly lit worlds of sitcoms. I know the Elura has problems with
> low light; will this totally kill
> any possibility of this kind of lighting, or do I just have to watch my toes,
> carefully check my results, and keep it from dipping into the danger zone?
>
> Again, I'm sorry for the long post and the total newbitude, but I really am
> new to shooting digitally. I'm an analog baby.
>
> All help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
>
> - Dave
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
> http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
> http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
> http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 20:58:39 +0400
From: "david e. kahn"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Best prices
Message-ID:
Hello: I would contact tape resorses for the tape and check them against
anyone else. Also you might pick up a monitor through TV technology the
magazine in their add section. Also that publication will give you places
to call. Here on the list are two excellent people and prices being equal I
would give them the business. Just my opinion. Tughollow
> From: Carla Sherman
> Organization: River Ganga Foundation
> Reply-To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:08:06 -0700
> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Subject: Best prices
>
>
> Hi, I am new on the list and I am learning a lot. I am working on a
> project to set up a subtitling and close captioning system for our
> foundation.
> Can anyone please recommend a store where I can get the best prices
> for the following products?
>
> Sony DVCAM DSR-20
>
> SonyPVM 1440 QM video monitor
>
> Sony DV CAM 90 minute tapes
>
>
> --
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Carla Sherman
> River Ganga Foundation
>
> -----------------------------------------------
>
> Visit our websites:
> http://www.riverganga.org
> http://www.silentheart.net
> Or even better, meet Gangaji: http://www.gangaji.org
>
>
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
> http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
> http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
> http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:46:41 -0500
From: Jeff Economy
To: DV-L
Subject: Re: National Court Reporters Association guidelines
Message-ID:
>There are apparently Federal guidelines which should be more
>available, but I don't know where. DOJ? The NCRA guidelines conform
>to the Fed's (as I understand it) but are a little more
>detailed.
I've seen a few deposition tapes, and they're all pretty much the
same no-brainer lock-down setup, so the fact that the NCRA charges
hundreds of dollars to take their course always appeared to me to be
some kind of scam. If anybody else here can help aim me in the right
direction re: the Fed's own rules, I'd be very grateful for the
pointer (and apologies if this is getting off-topic; feel free to
email me privately with follow-ups).
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 18:07:21 -0700
From: Kevin Marks
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Digital Media Lab
Message-ID:
At 9:44 pm -0400 8/4/01, Robert E Lamm wrote:
>At the risk of inflaming this incipient Mac vs. PC war...
I don't want to inflame this either, but there are a lot of common
misconceptions here that I'd like to clear up.
>Because the Mac targeted the graphics market first, Graphics places tend
>to have jumped more on this platform more. And they're just as eager to
>stick to it as the PC places want to stick to theirs. I was at a PBS
>station recently that is standardized on the Mac and I observed them
>running a PC application thru an emulator on their Mac network. (It was
>very slow and clumsy, but it met the Macs-only requirement.)
The PC emulators on Macs are pretty good these days, and will run at
reasonable speed, if the app isn't too graphics intensive. They make
sense when you have one or two legacy apps that are PC only. I
certainly wouldn't recommend running Virtual PC for your main
application, but it is plenty usable for dedicated apps. I know of a
Windows NT networking course that uses Macs running Virtual PC for
teaching, as that way they can restore an exact configuration in
seconds.
>Wintel dominates at corporate/industrial facilities and the market in
>general. And some corporate/industrial apps (accounting, finance, CAD) are
>only available on that platform.
This is true, but becoming less common, as most of the corporate apps
move to client/server and web-based models.
>We sell both and my observation is that the platforms have grown towards
>each other to the point where the differences are relatively superficial.
>But I do understand the desire of IT people to keep their maintenance load
>as small as possible: Most have their hands full with upgrades, service
>packs, installing new applications, showing users how to work them, etc.
>on their existing platform without having to add the complication of
>learning and maintaining a second type of machine.
There are many studies that show that the dual-platform support costs
aren't as bad as claimed - Macs generally take less support than PCs,
and when users are given a choice of platforms they pick the one hey
understand better, so don't ask so many questions.
> And economics is
>against dual platforms too: You often have to rebuy software for the
>second platform, etc.,
surely you are buying a copy for each machine anyway?
> and I've often observed the person with the oddball
>platform with TWO computers: One with the corporate applications and the
>other one for the special stuff. This kind of redundancy gets expensive.
It can; this is where the VirtualPC solution can help. Lots o
http://www.macwindows.com/tutorial.html
>As far as the person in Hawaii is concerned, if his school is standardized
>on PC's, he should stick to them if he can. If he had said they were
>standardized on Macs, I would have suggested he stick with those too. Each
>platform has its own strengths, but they tend to cancel each other out as
>far as student benefits are concerned.
I would argue that the seamless integration of DV video into the
hardware and software on the Mac make it a natural choice for a media
lab, and will lead to significantly lower support costs - 30% of iMac
DV buyers have edited with iMovie.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 21:55:21 -0400
From: Dave Haynie
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: 1394, Microsoft, Coffee, and the nominal fee that went poof
Message-ID: <20010409214141.A79A.DHAYNIE@jersey.net>
On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 18:13:43 -0400, Bertel Schmitt jammed all night, and by sunrise was heard saying:
> At 05:05 PM 4/9/01 -0400, Dave, with his usual eagle eyes on the monitor,
> wrote:
> > Where does 3.2Mb/s come from? Even USB goes up to 12Mb/s...
> Well, of course, this was a typo, possibly guided by disbelief that 1394
> will actually go up to 3.2 Gb/s - some day.
It didn't click. After all, they've been talking about 800Mb/s, 1200Mb/s,
and 1600Mb/s for about four years now, practically since Apple
introduced the first systems with the 100Mb/s PHY chips in 'em.
Originaly, gigabit Firewire wasn't even intending to be compatible. Then
they were planning to overhaul the whole spec, in 1394b, to remove all
of the Apple patents, etc. No, I don't expect 3200Mb/s anytime soon. But
someday, sure.
> >the cable). Intel, on the other hand, got a bug up the butt about
> >Firewire, probably back when Apple was asking $1/port in royalties, and
> >pushed for lesser replacements, like USB 2.0.
> Yep, that was a BIG mistake on Apple's part, it amounted to attempted
> highway robbery,
Well, put in prespective -- in the early days of DVD, the MPEG-LA was
getting something like $25-$30 per unit for their IP. It's still pretty
freekin' expensive.
The problem wasn't so much the $1 being asked, but the fact it was Apple
asking. And the fact they wanted to make it a serious standard. As
Intel's proven over and over again, the best way to make something
standard is simply to give it away, as with USB, PCI, AGP, etc. Folks
were bent out of shape that Apple didn't want to play by Intel's rules.
At today's $0.25 a port, it doesn't seem to be a big deal anymore.
> That nominal fee was $7,500. The early adopters, such as TI or Sony, got a
> lifetime license for $7,500 and everything was peachy. Great future for
> 1394. Firewire (oops, no, Apple had kept the TM for that) in every pot and
> on every motherboard.
Yup. And Apple was their annoying self, once again, with the whole
trademark issue. So you have to say "Firewire, I mean iLink, I mean mLan,
I mean IEEE1394...". Gimme a break.
> >But that's just the PC. We all like it, because it's already the DVcam
> >standard. It's very likely to become the overall standard for many kinds
> >of smart digital devices, in a fairly short time. Ultimately, I don't
> >think PCs will have the choice. But over then next few years, it'll
> >still be seen as an option by some PC companies.
> It was supposed to be the standard for many devices, from IDE drives to the
> connections behind your audio system.
Er, not to nitpick -- well ok, to nitpick, when you have a drive that
hooks to 1394, it's not an IDE (or properly, ATA) drive, it's a
1394/Firewire/etc. drive. Sure, you may build them with ATA drives (we
do, as most suppliers do), because they're cheap and ATA is faster than
1394 today, anyway. But you just as easily have a fully integrated
controller on the drive, at least once the economies of scale allow for
this.
> I still have a copy of the letter captioned "Apple limited License May 1995
> Rev. 8.0" which even gave the Licensee the choice to pay $7,500 outright,
> or, if they wanted to save $500, they had the option to donate $2000 to the
> "Intitute (Apple's typo) Undergraduate Scholarship Fund, IEEE Foundation
> Inc." and hand over $5K to Apple.
Sure -- everyone pretty much knows that Sony jumped early, which is why
they put it in practically everything they make.
The sad part is that 1394 does what you need for device to device
interconnect. USB doesn't, and USB 2.0 won't -- it's suitable for PC to
device connections, but for anything else, it's a kludge at best. It's
really not going to set Firewire back 10 years, especially in these days
of "other than Intel" PCs on the desktop and, in general, device
computing on the rise.
But I do wonder about Apple's continued lunacy when it comes to anything
standard. They sometimes produce good technology, but bury it with bad
policy. Apple as the only Mac supplier, for example, makes it real hard
for me to ever recommend a Mac, even though they have done things right
on the tech side as often as Windows (not that I'm giving especially
high marks to either side...).
--
Dave Haynie dhaynie@metaboxusa.com http://www.metaboxusa.com
Chief Technology Officer, Metabox Corporation
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 22:31:27 -0400
From: Robert E Lamm
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: 1394, Microsoft, Coffee, and the nominal fee that went poof
Message-ID:
> But I do wonder about Apple's continued lunacy when it comes to anything
> standard. They sometimes produce good technology, but bury it with bad
> policy. Apple as the only Mac supplier, for example, makes it real hard
> for me to ever recommend a Mac, even though they have done things right
> on the tech side as often as Windows (not that I'm giving especially
> high marks to either side...).
Frankly, I think Apple's totalitarian attitude towards its product is what
makes it special. Because they control the platform from OS to
application, they're able to make the more seamless, intelligently
integrated product that Mac users like.
Personally, I think the more chaotic situtation on the Wintel side with
lots of players who compete with each other to improve various bits of the
platform fosters more creativity and progress. But there's no question
that it's a lot more confusing over there, especially for non-computer
types.
-Bob Lamm
CYNC Corp.
Video/Multimedia Equipment Dealership
Brookline, MA
USA-617-277-4317
www.cync.com
>
> --
> Dave Haynie dhaynie@metaboxusa.com http://www.metaboxusa.com
> Chief Technology Officer, Metabox Corporation
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com, http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe: http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 22:37:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tom T. Pauncz"
To: "DV-L@dvcentral.org"
Subject: Test post
Please ignore .. trying to sort out some email client problem
Tks
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 23:10:47 -0400
From: Bertel Schmitt
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: 1394, Microsoft, Coffee, and the nominal fee that went poof
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010409224435.04001ec0@mail.dvcentral.org>
At 09:55 PM 4/9/2001 -0400, Dave wrote:
>It didn't click. After all, they've been talking about 800Mb/s, 1200Mb/s,
>and 1600Mb/s for about four years now, practically since Apple
>introduced the first systems with the 100Mb/s PHY chips in 'em.
>Originaly, gigabit Firewire wasn't even intending to be compatible. Then
>they were planning to overhaul the whole spec, in 1394b, to remove all
>of the Apple patents, etc. No, I don't expect 3200Mb/s anytime soon. But
>someday, sure.
I know. 1394b has taken forever. Partly due to the "Apple-free" concept,
pertly because the 1394 TA is a bit cumbersome and there were serious
culture clashes between the consumer electronics crowd and the computer crowd.
>The problem wasn't so much the $1 being asked, but the fact it was Apple
>asking. And the fact they wanted to make it a serious standard.
Apple asked for money years after 1394 had been adopted by the IEEE as a
standard. They weren't even behind the standard, they had pretty much given
up on 1394.
They made the IP available to all comers, as per IEEE requirements. That
was 1995. Jobs came back in 1997, looked for revenue, saw 1394 in tons of
camcorders and demanded money that they had signed away. If they wouldn't
have signed it away, there would be no IEEE 1394. IEEE Rules.
>As
>Intel's proven over and over again, the best way to make something
>standard is simply to give it away, as with USB, PCI, AGP, etc. Folks
>were bent out of shape that Apple didn't want to play by Intel's rules.
>At today's $0.25 a port, it doesn't seem to be a big deal anymore.
The part did cost $5 in 1995. I don't know how much it is these days,
probably less than a $. And $0.25 per port is a big deal. It doubles the price.
>Er, not to nitpick -- well ok, to nitpick, when you have a drive that
>hooks to 1394, it's not an IDE (or properly, ATA) drive, it's a
>1394/Firewire/etc. drive.
I know. Sorry. Technically true. But hard to understand.
>Sure, you may build them with ATA drives (we
>do, as most suppliers do), because they're cheap and ATA is faster than
>1394 today, anyway.
The driving force behind 1394 as the interconnect for low cost drives (see
how I'm dancing about the subject now?) was, would you believe it, the cost
of the flat cable. 6 wires are cheaper than a flat cable. Now we have a
flat cable and a 6wire ....
BS
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 23:34:55 -0400
From: Dave Haynie
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: 1394, Microsoft, Coffee, and the nominal fee that went poof
Message-ID: <20010409232603.A79D.DHAYNIE@jersey.net>
On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 23:10:47 -0400, Bertel Schmitt jammed all night, and by sunrise was heard saying:
> At 09:55 PM 4/9/2001 -0400, Dave wrote:
> >As
> >Intel's proven over and over again, the best way to make something
> >standard is simply to give it away, as with USB, PCI, AGP, etc. Folks
> >were bent out of shape that Apple didn't want to play by Intel's rules.
> >At today's $0.25 a port, it doesn't seem to be a big deal anymore.
> The part did cost $5 in 1995. I don't know how much it is these days,
> probably less than a $. And $0.25 per port is a big deal. It doubles the price.
Well, yes and no. The PHY chip cost $5 in 1995, but it was the cheaper
part of a 2-chip solution. TI had the first chips in popular use (in a
PC, anyway, not likely in cameras), and they intentionally decoupled the
physical and logical sections... and of course, they're not paying the
Apple fees, like Sony, they got in early. But this is why you find
TI-based cards with anything from 1 to 6 ports. But the main reason they
did this was because, early on, the PHY chips only ran 100Mb/s, while
the logical chip could handle full speed.
It's likely today you find an all-in-one chip, such as the one from NEC,
that offers 2 or 3 ports in a one-chip solution. Adding $0.50 to a $5.00
or so part is worst than not adding such, but it's not going to kill the
standard.
> >Sure, you may build them with ATA drives (we
> >do, as most suppliers do), because they're cheap and ATA is faster than
> >1394 today, anyway.
> The driving force behind 1394 as the interconnect for low cost drives (see
> how I'm dancing about the subject now?) was, would you believe it, the cost
> of the flat cable.
Of course. The 80-pin ATA-5 cables everyone uses these days aren't cheap,
and you need the additional cable for power.
This is why the next update to ATA is the new SerialATA spec. It uses a
Firewire-like (only a cheaper, +3V TTL-based signalling means) serial
bus, point-to-point only, and will reportedly remain compatible with ATA,
software-wise (which, alas, seems to limit some of the things they could
fix, but we'll see, there are ways to do both). The cable is a
single-piece for power and signal, much cheaper than the ATA cable of
today. And it's likely to make the HD electronics cheaper, too. The
first version is something like 1200Mb/s, and it's in-the-case only,
like parallel ATA.
These are supposed to be rolling out Real Soon Now. My guess is that
Intel, having faced a few chipset-set-backs and slower-than-expected
growth, has pushed the schedule back. But I haven't checked on it in
awhile...
--
Dave Haynie dhaynie@metaboxusa.com http://www.metaboxusa.com
Chief Technology Officer, Metabox Corporation
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:05:21 -0400
From: John Jackman
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: OT - TV related Sagan quote.
Message-ID: <3AD28680.720625@compuserve.com>
DPalomaki wrote:
>> "It's better to light a candle then to curse the darkness."
>> --Carl Sagan
>A bit of trivia perhaps. Sagan probably lifted this quote. In a
>TV context, it (or very similar statement) was used in the intro
>to a Sunday morning TV series in the 1950s titled, if memory
>serves, "The Christophers." Not sure where it originates.
The phrase has made the rounds. It is the motto of The Christopher
Society, and was quoted by Adlai Stephenson at the death of Eleanor
Roosevelt:
`She would rather light a candle than curse the darkness, and her glow
has warmed the world.'
It seems to originate from a Chinese proverb. `Better to light a candle
than curse the darkness'
also quoted by Peter Benenson, the founder of Amnesty International, at
a Human Rights Day ceremony on 10 December 1961 and provided Amnesty
International with its symbol of a burning candle (encircled by barbed
wire).
John Jackman
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 00:58:05 -0700
From: andrew kohl
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: OT - TV related Sagan quote.
Message-ID: <3AD2BD0D.BB2CA896@golden.net>
Here's a clue guys...they all bought the same phrasebook...just like
Carl..
andrew
John Jackman wrote:
>
> DPalomaki wrote:
>
> >> "It's better to light a candle then to curse the darkness."
> >> --Carl Sagan
>
> >A bit of trivia perhaps. Sagan probably lifted this quote. In a
> >TV context, it (or very similar statement) was used in the intro
> >to a Sunday morning TV series in the 1950s titled, if memory
> >serves, "The Christophers." Not sure where it originates.
>
> The phrase has made the rounds. It is the motto of The Christopher
> Society, and was quoted by Adlai Stephenson at the death of Eleanor
> Roosevelt:
>
> `She would rather light a candle than curse the darkness, and her glow
> has warmed the world.'
>
> It seems to originate from a Chinese proverb. `Better to light a candle
> than curse the darkness'
>
> also quoted by Peter Benenson, the founder of Amnesty International, at
> a Human Rights Day ceremony on 10 December 1961 and provided Amnesty
> International with its symbol of a burning candle (encircled by barbed
> wire).
>
> John Jackman
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com, http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 02:21:50 -0400
From: "Dany Coryet"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Message-ID:
>DO NOT GET DVD-RAM. If you cut to that, it will not be playable in desktop
>DVD players.
>
>MB
I have a DVD RAM (toshiba WD-1111)
What ever I write to a TYPE 2 Media Cartridge (NOT TYPE 1)
I can remove from the Cartridge, and play the disc in any DVD equipped G4
Set top players will not play it as VIDIOT says tho'
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 01:35:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Vidiot
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Message-ID: <200104100635.BAA31932@mrvideo.vidiot.com>
>>DO NOT GET DVD-RAM. If you cut to that, it will not be playable in desktop
>>DVD players.
>>
>>MB
>
>I have a DVD RAM (toshiba WD-1111)
>What ever I write to a TYPE 2 Media Cartridge (NOT TYPE 1)
>I can remove from the Cartridge, and play the disc in any DVD equipped G4
>
>Set top players will not play it as VIDIOT says tho'
Comparing apples and oranges. S-VHS tapes don't play in your G4 either.
The original question was basically asking for consumer playable options
that are non-computer, with S-VHS and DVD being two of those types.
Of course, many people don't have S-VHS either :-)
With DVD players being available in more and more homes, cutting DVDs
is most definately a great way to distribute video, which so happens
to be playable in many computer systems as well.
I just wanted to make sure that the original poster didn't add DVD-RAM
to the mix, as the discs have a very limited number of devices that will
play them.
MB
--
e-mail: vidiot@vidiot.com
Bart: Hey, why is it destroying other toys? Lisa: They must have
programmed it to eliminate the competition. Bart: You mean like
Microsoft? Lisa: Exactly. [The Simpsons - 12/18/99]
Visit - URL:http://www.vidiot.com/ (Your link to Star Trek and UPN)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 08:55:41 +0200
From: "Ian Pellew"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: SVHS vs DVD for output
Message-ID:
Spot on Vidiot;
DVD-Ram is yet to come of ago. Ideal for Database backup ( why I have one ) but
for video, wait a while for a standard DVD Writer.
Regards
Ian
------------------------------
End of DV-L V1 #821
*******************
-- (cut off when replying)-----------------
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To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
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