DV-L Fri, 1 Jun 2001 Volume 1 : Number 873
In this issue:
Re: 75 GB drives and Mobo bios limitations - Caddys?
Re: XLR Pro for VX9000
Re: miniDV cassette player/recorder
Re: miniDV cassette player/recorder
Re: Apple looking for speed?
Cross-fade formula?
RE: Apple looking for speed?
Which "unbundled" IEEE 1394 I/O board for Premiere 6.0?
=?iso-8859-1?Q?MARzPAK=81?= handheld camera support system hits on 2-pop
Re: Learning Editing
Canon ZR30 MC camera - newbie question
Canon DV mailing lists
Re: OT: MTV Standards
Re: Which "unbundled" IEEE 1394 I/O board for Premiere 6.0?
RE: Which "unbundled" IEEE 1394 I/O board for Premiere 6.0?
Re: Filter to have warmer colours
RE: Warm colors
Re: Cross-fade formula?
Re: DV-L V1 #872
Re: Learning Editing
RE: Cross-fade formula?
Re: Apple looking for speed?
RE: Using PCs and Macs on a network
Re: Cross-fade formula?
RE: Warm colors
Favourite lenses for JVC GY-DV500U?
RE: where to buy PyroDV in LA?
Re: still camera resolutions for video (was Cooke Primes
(warning: L O N G))
Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
RE: Using PCs and Macs on a network
Re: still camera resolutions for video (was Cooke Primes
(warning: L O N G))
RE: Using PCs and Macs on a network
RE: Using PCs and Macs on a network
RE: Warm colors
Anyone familiar with Sony's new TRV30 - opinions?
RE: DVCAM vs miniDV
Re: DV Raptor Codec
Re: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
Re: Quicktime (was Apple looking for speed?)
RE: Apple looking for speed?
Re: Anyone familiar with Sony's new TRV30 - opinions?
Re: Cross-fade formula?
Mini Dv Rewinder
RE: Cross-fade formula?
Re: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
Re: miniDV cassette player/recorder
Re: Quicktime (was Apple looking for speed?)
Re: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
Re: Apple looking for speed?
Re: Apple looking for speed?
Which windows combo to buy?
Premium or Excellence miniDV videotape.
RE: Apple looking for speed?
RE: Apple looking for speed?
Production Search Engine...
Re: Anyone familiar with Sony's new TRV30 - opinions?
RE: Apple looking for speed?
Re: still camera resolutions for video (was Cooke Primes(warning: L O N
G))
RE: Apple looking for speed?
Re: Anyone familiar with Sony's new TRV30 - opinions?
More About Avid Xpress DV (was RE: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R)
RE: Warm colors
Re: Apple looking for speed?
Re: Apple looking for speed?
Re: Apple looking for speed?
Re: Apple looking for speed?
RE: Warm colors
RE: Which windows combo to buy?
Re: still camera resolutions for video (was Cooke Primes(warning:
L O N G))
Re: Anyone familiar with Sony's new TRV30 - opinions?
Re: DV Raptor Codec
Re: More About Avid Xpress DV (was RE: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4
with DVD-R)
Re: Which windows combo to buy?
Re: Which windows combo to buy?
RE: Which windows combo to buy?
Re: Which windows combo to buy?
Avid Xpress DV
Re: Which windows combo to buy?
Re: Favourite lenses for JVC GY-DV500U?
DV Vs. 601
Re: DV Vs. 601
RE: DV Vs. 601
RE: Which windows combo to buy?
Re: DV Vs. 601
Re: Which windows combo to buy?
RE: DV Vs. 601
RE: Which windows combo to buy?
firewire drives
Re: Which "unbundled" IEEE 1394 I/O board for Premiere 6.0?
Re: Avid Xpress DV
eShades
Re: firewire drives
Re: computer monitor flicker
Re: DV Vs. 601(too much information)
Re: computer monitor flicker
Re: Avid Xpress DV
Re: DV Sound Book
Re: DV Vs. 601(too much information)
Re: DV Sound Book
RE: DV Vs. 601(too much information)
Re: Cross-fade formula?
RE: DVCAM vs miniDV
RE: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***
Re: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
RE: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***
adobe premiere transition problem
3d motion tracking in-camera (was Re: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***)
RE: 3d motion tracking in-camera (was Re: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURER
S LISTEN UP ***)
RE: DV Vs. 601(too much information)
RE: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***
Re: Apple looking for speed?
Motion capture (was RE: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***)
Re: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
Re: Motion capture (was RE: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***)
Re: 3d motion tracking in-camera (was Re: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS
LISTEN UP ***)
Re: Apple looking for speed?
Re: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***
Re: storm motherboard and cpu
DV Decks with XLR interface?
Re: DV Decks with XLR interface?
RE: Apple looking for speed?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 03:21:21 -0500
From: Eric Donaldson
To: dv-l@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: 75 GB drives and Mobo bios limitations - Caddys?
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010531031837.020088e0@mail.megacyberworld.com>
b.
I've been using the hard drive caddies from Computer Geeks, only $7.50 :)
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=GN210
- Eric Donaldson
At 02:59 PM 5/9/01 -0400, you wrote:
>>In a message dated 5/9/01 6:45:27 AM, wwimberly@cfl.rr.com writes:
>>
>><< At today's prices I can buy a 30 gig drive and caddy for
>>less than $150 and get a little over two hours of storage or a 75 gig drive
>>and caddy for about $300. >>
>>
>>I'm not familiar with the caddy system. It sounds like what I need as
>>all my
>>slots are filled - my computer is so jammed with drives and cards I actually
>>cracked the side of the case trying to close it.
>>
>>Who makes the caddys? Is it like a SCSI SCA type system?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>b.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:18:32 +0700
From: "VideoIndonesia"
To:
Subject: Re: XLR Pro for VX9000
Message-ID: <003701c0e9b2$aceae6a0$053e9bca@indosat.net.id>
Hi Eric
Thanks for the reply
I tested again a couple of days ago and no problem I think it needs looking into, the wiring that is cos it has been bad news in
the past and is ok now. I noticed a glitch in the connection between the minijack near the onboard mic so this time which tells me
its a wiring problem. I must say their service support was really fast in getting back to me. Sound right now is working well.
Cheers
Geoff
Subject: Re: XLR Pro for VX9000
Geoffrey,
I don't have any problems using the XLR-Pro on Sony Digital8
camcorders. Checking the obvious would include that the pots are turned up
and you have selected mic level for the inputs. The documentation says
that even if you only have one mic plugged in you should turn the unused
pot to its maximum. I've found the XLR-Pro to be a very sturdy and useful
piece of equipment. Maybe you have a defective unit.
- Eric Donaldson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:36:32 +0900
From: selander@tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander)
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: miniDV cassette player/recorder
Message-ID: <1euae39.17xdttr1megaqpM%selander@tkf.att.ne.jp>
No; since it's intended only for the Japanese market, it's strictly
NTSC.
Tim
> Tom
> Is this unit [WV DR5] PAL as well as NTSC?
> Geoff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Selander"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:46 AM
> Subject: Re: miniDV cassette player/recorder
>
>
> Allison,
>
> I work in Japan at a little radio and TV production house. Here Sony
> sells a really nice double deck -- DV and VHS. You can probably find
> information on it by searching google.com. It's called the WV-DR5.
>
> I really like this deck because, aside from being a really well-built
> machine, it takes full size DV cassettes as well as the mini, and it can
> play DVCAM. (Records only DV). Makes making DV-VHS dubs real easy!
>
> I could buy one of these locally and air mail it you for $1350. Kind of
> pricey, but it might be worth it?
>
> Let me know!
>
> Tim Selander
> Tokyo, Japan
>
> P.S. Works great with my Mac, with Final Cut, EditDV and iMovie!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:36:33 +0900
From: selander@tkf.att.ne.jp (Tim Selander)
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: miniDV cassette player/recorder
Message-ID: <1euae4o.vgpwehymevq7M%selander@tkf.att.ne.jp>
DV video takes 13 gigs per hour. That's what, roughly 20 minutes on your
DVD? To get more on, you'd need to compress the video.
Tim
> If the current DVD burners max out at 4.7 gb how many minutes of Dv video
> will fit onto one side of a disk? I suppose it depends on the number of
> effects as well, but generally..
>
> TIA
> Geoff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "VideoIndonesia"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 1:16 PM
> Subject: Re: miniDV cassette player/recorder
>
>
> Tom
> Is this unit [WV DR5] PAL as well as NTSC?
> Geoff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Selander"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:46 AM
> Subject: Re: miniDV cassette player/recorder
>
>
> Allison,
>
> I work in Japan at a little radio and TV production house. Here Sony
> sells a really nice double deck -- DV and VHS. You can probably find
> information on it by searching google.com. It's called the WV-DR5.
>
> I really like this deck because, aside from being a really well-built
> machine, it takes full size DV cassettes as well as the mini, and it can
> play DVCAM. (Records only DV). Makes making DV-VHS dubs real easy!
>
> I could buy one of these locally and air mail it you for $1350. Kind of
> pricey, but it might be worth it?
>
> Let me know!
>
> Tim Selander
> Tokyo, Japan
>
> P.S. Works great with my Mac, with Final Cut, EditDV and iMovie!
>
> > on 5/29/01 2:31 AM, Al Warren at akacyberbabe@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > > Does any one know an affordable place to shop for
> > > miniDV cassette deck that I could plug into a Mac
> > > instead of using my camera? Thank you.
> > > Allison
> > >
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 07:29:11 EDT
From: ScubaViz@aol.com
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID: <35.15e4c985.28478507@aol.com>
In a message dated 5/30/01 11:28:18 PM, dvlist@krysalisproductions.com writes:
<< After running and re-running the simulation several
dozen times, it comes up with the same result every time: 42. >>
And a fine tribute to Douglas Adams, I might add.
Don Stark
ScubaVision Productions
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:37:49 -0700
From: "masi"
To:
Subject: Cross-fade formula?
Message-ID: <01dd01c0ea33$5c417800$9a2c4fca@a6r2y3>
Hi group!
To those of you who have been doing film/video for a while, is there a
formula to placing either cross-fade transitions or just the plain old
abrupt transition. I have tried studying documentaries and movies to see if
there is a pattern to the frequency and use of these two transitions but
can't seem to see any formula. It mostly seems to work but is there a rule
of thumb?
Is it something like in the case of a documentary - does one use cross-fades
during the naration of a particular thread or subject matter and then an
abrupt change when the subject changes, or vice-versa?
I am going through my projecct to see if the transitions work and I'm not
sure what to look for.
As for music? Yikes! I think that's a whole different kettle of fish...still
waiting for me to tackle.
Thanks again for all the help
masi
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 13:13:00 +0100
From: Mark Grant
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID: <0182399E7179D211824400A0C9EA408A029C08DA@exchuk02.3dlabs.com>
> From: Tyler A. Hawes [mailto:dvlist@krysalisproductions.com]
> Why are we continuing this platform war? Has anyone ever
> known anyone to
> change their mind about what platform they prefer as a result
> of one of
> these threads?
Hardly anyone involved in any discussion on the Internet ever changes their
mind publically; however, many, many people change their minds as a result
of reading those discussions (I've had plenty of people mail me privately in
the past to say that something I've posted has changed their mind on a
subject). Even now there are probably people on the list who've been trying
to decide whether to go for a Mac or PC who've been convinced one way or
another by the recent discussions... just because they aren't publically
posting that doesn't mean it's not useful to them.
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:37:57 -0400
From: "William F. Santelmann, Jr."
To: "Digital, Video Central"
Subject: Which "unbundled" IEEE 1394 I/O board for Premiere 6.0?
Message-ID: <3B164935.F789EBB7@rcn.com>
Friends,
I am new to this list, but not to digital video editing. I am presently using
Premiere 5.1c for editing video captured with a Pinnacle DC30+ from a Hi8 video
camera. The computer is a Pentium III-450 running Windows 98SE with 192meg of
RAM and 79G of hard disk storage space. I am finally able to edit efficiently
and I'm very pleased with the results.
About two years ago, I acquired a SONY DCR TRV-510 camera which is a marvelous
device. But the only way to edit its video has been to use its Hi8 output into
the DC30+. I want to arrange an IEEE 1394 input so I can avoid the conversion to
analog and back to digital. I can upgrade to Premiere 6.0 for $149, and will as
soon as the new drivers for the DC30+ are available, so all I need is the IEEE
1394 I/O board. But which one? Is "OHCI compliant" sufficient? Or do I have to
get one that Adobe approves for Premiere 6.0? All the boards Adobe has approved
to the present include a bundle with an editing program that I don't need.
Recommendations please! And thanks in advance!!
--
Bill Santelmann
n1au@rcn.com
For Our Kids' Future -
Make Nuclear Weapons a Thing of the Past
http://www.DontBlowIt.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:42:00 -0400
From: jmerser
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?MARzPAK=81?= handheld camera support system hits on 2-pop
Message-ID:
Hey list,
Excuse the plug, but there's a nice review of the MARzPAK=81 handheld camera
support system on 2-pop.com by Donna Kuyper. Check it out if you
get a chance.
http://www.2-pop.com
jmerser
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 08:43:30 CST
From: "Bruce A. Johnson ORH 2-8503"
To:
Subject: Re: Learning Editing
Message-ID: <69FDF210338@vilas.uwex.edu>
I, and then Kevin, wrote:
>>TV has rushed down the quality ladder to look more like
>home movies.
Can you point me at the research that says this? <
Oh sweet Jesus, and I thought I worked in an ivory tower!
You bought the DVD of "I Claudius." Congratulations, that makes
you one in about a hundred million worldwide.
Kevin, watch broadcast TV. Watch MTV. Watch sitcoms. Watch
"NYPD Blue." Watch any newscast that substitutes white flashes
in the place of B-roll. Watch the newsmags that pretend to be
"documentary" but are really re-enacting scenes with effects larded
all over, and not mention the fact that they are reenactments.
> I think you are imagining a golden age that never existed.<
I don't know how old you are, Kevin, but I had the opportunity to
work in TV at the very last gleaming of that golden age. I miss it
greatly.
>According to Steve Jobs in January's conference call, 30% of
iMac DV owners have made movies with iMovie.<
Mr. Jobs would like us to believe the only way for us to make a
DVD is with a Mac 733 and iDVD. Just 'cause he says it doesn't
make it so.
Just because everyone can buy a nailgun, circular saw and lumber
at Home Depot doesn't mean everyone should be building houses.
At least not a house I'd be interested in living in.
Apple's push towards home video is about *selling boxes,* not
liberating the masses. Any higher tone in the marketing is just
salesmanship.
Bruce A. Johnson
Senior Videographer/Editor
Wisconsin Public Television Digital Production Unit
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:47:56 -0400
From: TV Middletown
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Cc: Barb LaPierre
Subject: Canon ZR30 MC camera - newbie question
Message-ID: <3B164B8B.AC6A3FD6@infinet.com>
--------------DF8AA0907EAA3692CEAF3487
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lasw week, I purchased a Canon ZR30 MC camcorder after seeing video shot
with one camera in this line and hearing positive comments from other
users. Would like to add here that I'm pretty much of a newbie to DV but
I've done lots of digital still stuff.
I shot some footage over the weekend in what can only be described as
contrast situations from He** at an outdoor concert - extreme
backlighting, etc. At times, I got a dark "edge" - almost an outline -
on some of the performers or, where I was going for an establishing
shot, where the trees met the sky. Do any of you have any suggestions as
to what might be causing this" ...how it can be avoided?
Would like to add here that I stay in "lurk" mode most of the time and
that I've learned a great deal just be reading the posts to this list.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Barb LaPierre
TV Middletown
Middletown OH
www.middletown.com/tvmiddletown
--------------DF8AA0907EAA3692CEAF3487
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lasw week, I purchased a Canon ZR30 MC camcorder after seeing video shot with one camera in this line and hearing positive comments from other users. Would like to add here that I'm pretty much of a newbie to DV but I've done lots of digital still stuff.
I shot some footage over the weekend in what can only be described as contrast situations from He** at an outdoor concert - extreme backlighting, etc. At times, I got a dark "edge" - almost an outline - on some of the performers or, where I was going for an establishing shot, where the trees met the sky. Do any of you have any suggestions as to what might be causing this" ...how it can be avoided?
Would like to add here that I stay in "lurk" mode most of the time and that I've learned a great deal just be reading the posts to this list.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Barb LaPierre
TV Middletown
Middletown OH
www.middletown.com/tvmiddletown
--------------DF8AA0907EAA3692CEAF3487--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:50:22 -0400
From: TV Middletown
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Canon DV mailing lists
Message-ID: <3B164C19.9FB776B1@infinet.com>
--------------5C426CD60650B02E222CC80D
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Do any of you know of any Canon DV mailing lists?
Thanks in advance.
Barb LaPierre
TV Middletown
Middletown OH
www.middletown.com/tvmiddletown
--------------5C426CD60650B02E222CC80D
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Do any of you know of any Canon DV mailing lists?
Thanks in advance.
Barb LaPierre
TV Middletown
Middletown OH
www.middletown.com/tvmiddletown
--------------5C426CD60650B02E222CC80D--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 06:50:02 -0700
From: rob@gregorybrowne.com
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: OT: MTV Standards
Message-ID: <3B15E99A.8229.3889EC16@localhost>
On 30 May 2001, at 12:34, Vidiot wrote:
> Getting a video on MTV requires a hit song to go with it :-)
You mean the song matters? Hard to tell.
rgb
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:59:42 -0400
From: Joe Parker
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Which "unbundled" IEEE 1394 I/O board for Premiere 6.0?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010531095616.03827810@mail.speakeasy.org>
>
>the DC30+. I want to arrange an IEEE 1394 input so I can avoid the
>conversion to
>analog and back to digital. I can upgrade to Premiere 6.0 for $149, and
>will as
>soon as the new drivers for the DC30+ are available, so all I need is the IEEE
>1394 I/O board. But which one? Is "OHCI compliant" sufficient? Or do I have to
Any cheap OHCI board will work. If you want lots of company (i.e. proven
track record) get the Pyro board from ADS.
And dump the DC30 (analog only?). Either use your camera to convert analog
or get the Panasonic analog-DV converter if you really have a whole lot of
analog material to deal with.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:00:21 -0400
From: "Davis, Ian (MLIM)"
To: "'DV-L@dvcentral.org'"
Subject: RE: Which "unbundled" IEEE 1394 I/O board for Premiere 6.0?
Message-ID:
Bill,
I have a TRV-730 and a DC30. I upgraded to Prem 6.0. and brought a generic OHCI compliant card (actually Comp-USA branded), I upgraded to the latest DC30/30+ drivers and Prem 6.0 seemed to have no issue with this and uses the DC30 card properly.
I did get one issue with Prem 6.0 and 1394 card which was resolved by adding the Microsoft Direct-X patch for PAL DV (don't be confused by the name, this fixes bugs in NTSC also).
I now have the camera connected both via analog and digital and can output or input via either or sometimes both.
Btw, the Comp-USA 1394 card came with a bundled editing program but I ignored this.
Thanks,
Ian Davis
Middletown, NJ
-----Original Message-----
From: William F. Santelmann, Jr. [mailto:n1au@rcn.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 9:38 AM
To: Digital, Video Central
Subject: Which "unbundled" IEEE 1394 I/O board for Premiere 6.0?
Friends,
I am new to this list, but not to digital video editing. I am presently using
Premiere 5.1c for editing video captured with a Pinnacle DC30+ from a Hi8 video
camera. The computer is a Pentium III-450 running Windows 98SE with 192meg of
RAM and 79G of hard disk storage space. I am finally able to edit efficiently
and I'm very pleased with the results.
About two years ago, I acquired a SONY DCR TRV-510 camera which is a marvelous
device. But the only way to edit its video has been to use its Hi8 output into
the DC30+. I want to arrange an IEEE 1394 input so I can avoid the conversion to
analog and back to digital. I can upgrade to Premiere 6.0 for $149, and will as
soon as the new drivers for the DC30+ are available, so all I need is the IEEE
1394 I/O board. But which one? Is "OHCI compliant" sufficient? Or do I have to
get one that Adobe approves for Premiere 6.0? All the boards Adobe has approved
to the present include a bundle with an editing program that I don't need.
Recommendations please! And thanks in advance!!
--
Bill Santelmann
n1au@rcn.com
For Our Kids' Future -
Make Nuclear Weapons a Thing of the Past
http://www.DontBlowIt.org
-- (cut off when replying)-----------------
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All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe: http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 13:58:36 +0000
From: Fogar
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Filter to have warmer colours
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010531135439.03b755b0@popmail.libero.it>
But have I to make adjusting the white balance without
the brown filter or one warm filter?
Have I to add it after white balancing?
thanks Fogar
>Hello
>
>First be sure that white balance in the camera is correct.
>
>To obtain a warmer picture in DV format, your can follow up this four
>possibilityes:
>
>1-Turn up the camera set up parameters. Reduce contrast and brightnes a
>little bit.
>
>2- Adjust the white balance with a soft blue card, not with pure white.
>
>3- With artificial light, use 500 to 1200 Kelvin degree bellow the camera
>calibration.
>
>Or:
>
>4- Use brown filter (0.1 to 1.0) or one warm filter (Tiffen) . Also if
>possible the 85C filter.
>Different companys have different nomenclatures for this filter
>specifications. It=B4s also posible to
>use KODAK gelatine filter -Color compensation CCR- I sugest the CCR soft
>brown. (The correct reference
>you have to experiment with your camera.)
>
>
>Luis Eduardo Mej=EDa
>luisem@epm.net.co
>www.geocities.com/mingaprod
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Fogar
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 11:48 AM
>Subject: What filter to have warmer colours?
>
>
> > Hello,
> > I have got a miniDV camera (Sony PC5 with one CCD) and I don't like
> > its image quality. It is a cold image. What filter could I use to heat
> > and to obtain a full colour of the image?
> >
> > thanks Fogar
> >
> > -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> > This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
>http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
>http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
> >
> > To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> > All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
>http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> > DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>
>
>-- (cut off when replying)-----------------
>This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as=20
>http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,=20
>http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
>To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
>All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:=20
>http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
>DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:05:02 +0000
From: Fogar
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Warm colors
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010531140433.03bd45d0@popmail.libero.it>
But the problem using the 81B filter is I use very much
Wide Angle Lens and I think adding another lens isn't a good idea.
Wath do you tink about it?
thanks Fogar
>Hello,
>I have got a miniDV camera (Sony PC5 with one CCD) and I don't like
>its image quality. It is a cold image. What filter could I use to heat
>and to obtain a full colour of the image?
>
>
>...Try the 81B filter. It warms up tones very well without skewing all the
>colors.
>
>-joseph
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 07:17:38 -0700
From: Daniel Krause
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Cross-fade formula?
Message-ID: <200105311417.HAA22948@smtpout.mac.com>
You are talking about the Grammar of Film, my friend. It's like English
grammar - there's no pattern, everything is based on context, and if
there are rules they're so arbitrary as to be useless.
In fact, there is a rule that suggests fades denote the passage of time,
and you could call that a cliche that must be avoided. If you use
transitions the "wrong" way you are likely to be hailed as a creative
genius as an idiot. More likely you'll get both reactions, about a 50/50
split.
Do what you would like to see and when people ask, say you absolutely,
positively meant it to look that way.
On Thursday, May 31, 2001, at 05:37 PM, masi wrote:
> To those of you who have been doing film/video for a while, is there a
> formula to placing either cross-fade transitions or just the plain old
> abrupt transition. I have tried studying documentaries and movies to
> see if
> there is a pattern to the frequency and use of these two transitions but
> can't seem to see any formula. It mostly seems to work but is there a
> rule
> of thumb?
>
> Is it something like in the case of a documentary - does one use
> cross-fades
> during the naration of a particular thread or subject matter and then an
> abrupt change when the subject changes, or vice-versa?
>
> I am going through my projecct to see if the transitions work and I'm
> not
> sure what to look for.
>
> As for music? Yikes! I think that's a whole different kettle of
> fish...still
> waiting for me to tackle.
>
> Thanks again for all the help
>
> masi
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
> http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
> http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
> http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
========================================
"A photo caption with a Nov. 30 article misidentified the clown
entertaining children at Thomas S. Stone Elementary School in Prince
George's County. He was Smiley D. Clown."
- WASHINGTON POST
See a website! www.danielkrause.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:32:28 CST
From: "Bruce A. Johnson ORH 2-8503"
To:
Subject: Re: DV-L V1 #872
Message-ID: <6A0B039372F@vilas.uwex.edu>
Wes wrote:
>My belief is that excellence arises just as well from a democracy
as from an aristocracy.<
Amen. But it's the crassest form of commercialism to tell all who
try, "This device will make you Francis Ford Coppola." Or
Einstein. Or Amelia Earhart. Or Charlie Chaplin. Or anyone else
Apple has featured in their grammatically-incorrect "Think Different"
campaign. To say otherwise is disingenuous in the extreme.
Bruce A. Johnson
Senior Videographer/Editor
Wisconsin Public Television Digital Production Unit
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:36:58 -0500
From: Danny Grizzle
To:
Subject: Re: Learning Editing
Message-ID:
on 5/31/01 9:43 AM, Bruce A. Johnson ORH 2-8503 at johnsonb@wpt.org wrote:
> Apple's push towards home video is about *selling boxes,* not
> liberating the masses. Any higher tone in the marketing is just
> salesmanship.
Count me among the collateral damage then. Not this go round with Apple, but
as a result of Bell & Howell selling my parents a Keystone 8mm movie camera.
(Fixed focus, with a lens like one of today's disposable cameras. Push the
lever down, 16fps movies. Push the lever up, single frame animation!)
Later on, both myself and another past SMPTE section chair (as we discovered
later) both got our first taste of technology hacking around with a weird
Kodak consumer flying-spot Super 8mm-to-video "projector". Film in, video
out - all the size of a carousel slide projector!
We're all making something to sell, and we're all hoping it will lead to
something better. Nothing especially conniving about Apple pushing tools for
video production. And no telling what may come out of it. 30 years from now,
no doubt the Speilbergs of tomorrow will be talking about how they started
with an old iMac DV.
Danny Grizzle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:07:16 -0400
From: "Stephen van Vuuren"
To:
Subject: RE: Cross-fade formula?
Message-ID: <000401c0e9e3$61abf040$4423a8c0@dell420>
If it works for you use it. But it does help to understand the "rules"
before you smash with your DV NLE hammer...
Any good basic book on film grammar, film production or such will help you
out.
stephen
www.xiveren.com
"It can only be attributable to human error"
-HAL
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:02:14 -0500
From: "Chris Adams"
To:
Subject: Re: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID: <001701c0e9eb$0fc18120$8858a718@mshome.net>
Well, Gosh! I guess my two years of producing a Television show of a length
of 28:30 on a G4 Macintosh with Final Cut Pro is all a Farce. My experience
is totally juxtaposed to the statements below. Matter of fact we put a
Pentium 450 to a Mac G3 350 and the Mac G3 was at least 40% faster in
rendering speed with Adobe Premiere.
I'm not trying to start a flame war. My experience is totally different. I
would rather have a Macintosh running FCP than a full blown Wintel system.
I wouldn't take the below as gospel, just one person's opinion.
Chris Adams
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Starck"
To: "DV-L"
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: Apple looking for speed?
> Dave Haynie is a computer engineer whose considerable experience includes
the development
> of Apple compatible systems. If one is genuinely interested in the
relative merits of
> different systems they would do well to try to understand what he is
saying rather than
> engaging in knee jerk defenses of anything seen as being in any way
critical of Apple.
>
> Dave's comments with regard to the failure of the Power PC CPU to keep
pace with
> development of Intel and AMD processors due to the relatively small market
resulting from
> Apple's closed system approach in an important point with regard to video
capability.
>
> Several years ago Wintel set out to make their systems video capable.
Intel built the
> necessary routines into their co-processor extensions and MS built a new
media interface
> into their OS as well as a matching player and advanced codecs. These
have since gone
> through about 3 generations of improvements and Wintel machines now handle
video very
> well.
>
> Unfortunately Apple has not kept up in this area. I know this may be
heresy to Mac users
> but
> the reality is that processors and operating systems have reached a stage
of
> sophistication that massive resources are required in their development
and neither
> Motorola nor Apple have a fraction of the resources for this purpose that
Intel and MS do.
>
> At this point Macs don't seem to handle full size video playback very
well. They are
> slower than Windows machines at most rendering tasks and they just don't
seem to be able
> to handle MPEG4 decompression fast enough for smooth video playback.
>
> MPEG4 offers decidedly better video compression than other codecs and
appears set to
> become the next standard for computer and web based video. Major players
such as MS,
> Philips and Sony are backing it and even Sorensen seems have to
acknowledged it is a
> better way to go and are developing their own version.
>
> Using MPEG4 you can put about 40 - 50 minutes or more of DVD quality video
on a CD. It
> will play back smoothly on most any Windows Machine of about 500MHz or
faster. This
> includes all current machines and a good portion of those sold over the
past couple of
> years. Even 500MHz G4 Macs though, don't seem to be able to play it
without dropping
> frames.
>
> As the publisher of a new CD based magazine which includes substantial
video content I am
> acutely aware of the rave responses from pleased Windows users and the
disappointment and
> irritation of Apple users. For some reason the latter seem strangely
reluctant to consider
> the possibility of any deficiency in their system and instead wish to
blame anything and
> everything else. If only their dissatisfaction were directed at the real
source of the
> problem it might do some good.
>
> Walter Starck
> Golden Dolphin Video CD Magazine
> www.goldendolphin.com
>
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:23:22 -0400
From: "Steve Mullen"
To:
Subject: RE: Using PCs and Macs on a network
Message-ID: <002201c0e9ee$02d25180$5b646c42@nyc.rr.com>
At the end of the day the Mac does what I
need it to do with out me having to know anything about how it does it.
I
think it and my Mac makes it happen. It just works enough said.
Scott
---------
Scott, and any one else who has used both PCs and Macs. The Titanium PB
looks very interesting compared to the Sony 505 VAIO as I consider
replacing my old VAIO laptop.
Assume one has an PB and an AirPort -- and the AP station is connected
to Ethernet HUB -- to which is connected a cable modem as well as other
PCs running W98 and W2000.
Will the PB browse and do email just like a PC does? (I'm sure the
answer is yes -- although I don't think the Mac has Outlook.)
Will I be able to access the contents of the PC's disks from the Mac --
just like I do now from my PC laptop?
Will I be able to access the contents of the Mac's disks from the PC?
I know that Office 2001 and Office 2000 will exchange files without
conversions, But what about proprietary Mac AV software such as iMovie
and FCP.
Can AVI and WAV files be opened without conversion by proprietary Mac AV
software such as iMovie and FCP. (I assume Premiere will input AVI and
WAV.)
Will the proprietary Mac AV software such as iMovie and FCP output AVI
and WAV files. (I assume Premiere will output AVI and WAV.)
In short, will I be able to freely move AV between both platforms?
If not, it looks like I stay with Sony.
Best Regards,
Steve Mullen
Digital Video Consulting NYC
www.mindspring.com/~d-v-c
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:29:34 -0700
From: Richard Lin
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Cross-fade formula?
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010531091750.02faeec0@mail.3forces.com>
What you call an "abrupt transition" really isn't always so. I assume
you're referring to a CUT.
Take two noncontinuous scenes, say a person running from one side of the
screen, to another scene of
the same person running the opposite direction---Right to Left, then Left
to Right.
You've got a JUMP CUT. Yep, it's abrupt.
Take another scene, where you see a WIDE (overall) shot of a group of
people standing. Now CUT to
a MEDIUM shot (Include 2 or 3 people in the group at shoulder level) in
the group, and it'll feel more
natural. It won't be abrupt. Of course if it CUTs into a DIFFERENT group
of people, then it would
be abrupt.
What you're asking is really --" How to I learn to edit?"
My advice:
Watch TV and Movies VERY CAREFULLY. Watch them with a "different
eye". Not the same way a normal person
watches a movie to experience it, but in a way where you notice HOW each
scene makes you feel a particular way.
Is it the music? What kind of music? Is the scene tense? What are the
people doing? Notice scene transitions.
How did they get from one location to another? How did they convey the
passage of time? Did they show a clock?
Did they do a long dissolve? Notice and listen to when you hear a voice
and what you see on the screen. It's pretty
common to hear the dialogue for the next scene in the very end of the scene
you are viewing--this is known as
an L-CUT or SPLIT EDIT.
Then practice this on your own. Try different styles of editing. An
exercise that is fun to do is to take two different rental movies,
choose two scenes, tell a new story between them. One person might say "I
Love You", and another movie might say "Yeah, but
driving is so much more fun." Another variation is to do the same thing
without audio. Choose an upbeat techno tune,
and do a dynamic edit. Cut every few frames to the beat of the
music. InterCUT the movies, and you'll see an interesting
thing happen.
Have fun!!
Richard Lin
editTRAIN.com
At 05:37 PM 5/31/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi group!
>
>To those of you who have been doing film/video for a while, is there a
>formula to placing either cross-fade transitions or just the plain old
>abrupt transition. I have tried studying documentaries and movies to see if
>there is a pattern to the frequency and use of these two transitions but
>can't seem to see any formula. It mostly seems to work but is there a rule
>of thumb?
>
>Is it something like in the case of a documentary - does one use cross-fades
>during the naration of a particular thread or subject matter and then an
>abrupt change when the subject changes, or vice-versa?
>
>I am going through my projecct to see if the transitions work and I'm not
>sure what to look for.
>
>As for music? Yikes! I think that's a whole different kettle of fish...still
>waiting for me to tackle.
>
>Thanks again for all the help
>
>masi
>
>-- (cut off when replying)-----------------
>This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
>http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
>http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
>To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
>All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
>http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
>DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:21:19 -0400
From: Saman Faraz
To:
Subject: RE: Warm colors
Message-ID:
my preferred method is to use colored gels over the lens when white
balancing and then remove then shoot through an unfiltered lens. It gives a
lot more control over the degree of warmth/coolness - by selecting subtly
different gels to white balance through.
So, in your case,
1) point the camera at a white card to do a manual white balance
2) hold a BLUE gel over the lens (the darker the blue, the warmer
the image will be - I'd go with a 1/8th blue and experiment from
there)
3) do the white balance
4) shoot as you normally would
In order to give the image a blue (cooler) tint, then use an orange gel
instead of a blue gel for the white balance step. Try it, it opens up lots
of options and is faster, but less flexible, than doing it in post.
Saman
> Hello,
> I have got a miniDV camera (Sony PC5 with one CCD) and I don't like
> its image quality. It is a cold image. What filter could I use to heat
> and to obtain a full colour of the image?
>
>
> ...Try the 81B filter. It warms up tones very well without skewing all the
> colors.
>
> -joseph
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:39:15 -0700
From: Sandy MacDonald
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Favourite lenses for JVC GY-DV500U?
Message-ID: <3B1673B3.FE41EEEA@home.com>
I'm about to upgrade from my original packaged Fuji lense. Thought it
would be worthwhile to ask what kind of value the great wide world had
got from other lenses. Also... how has your experience been with using
various primes... I'm looking at a 1K to 2K investment which will
impact significantly on my video quality.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 09:37:50 -0700
From: "Robert MacCaul"
To:
Subject: RE: where to buy PyroDV in LA?
Message-ID:
You can check out Fry's, Best Buy, Circuit City, Comp USA. They all carry
those cards. I would call ahead first and check to see it they have it in
stock.
Hope this helps.
Robert
rmaccaul@adobe.com
Web Community Specialist, Digital Video
Adobe Systems Incorporated
www.adobe.com
-----Original Message-----
From: MojoSPFX@aol.com [mailto:MojoSPFX@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:43 PM
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: where to buy PyroDV in LA?
Does anyone know what stores in LA carry the Pyro DV card?
Please send me a note to mojospfx@aol.com
Thanks!
Mojo
-- (cut off when replying)-----------------
This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:37:23 -0400
From: Saman Faraz
To:
Subject: Re: still camera resolutions for video (was Cooke Primes
(warning: L O N G))
Message-ID:
my impression was that one of the big bottlenecks with very high res chips
is the data transfer path to the permanent store (e.g. tape). Those very
high res still cameras can only pump off a shot every few seconds, primarily
because they need to transfer the data to the memory card, or micro-drive,
or what ever it is they use.
Video cameras have a real-time constraint of 30 or so frames a second - that
makes for one major bandwidth data bus and storage device. A 6 megapixel
frame, at 3 bytes a pixel (I'm not sure if this is the right number), would
make an 18 MB transfer in 1/30 a second, or 560 mbytes/second!
Someone else can say whether that 3 bytes per pixel is low or high, but even
if it's 1 byte a pixel.. then we're looking at 180 mbytes/second transfer
rates to streaming tape!!
Sounds like a bottleneck to me..
Saman
> I think the economics and R&D of the still photography market is about to
> drive the next generation of HD video. We're seeing the emergence of cameras
> in the 4 megapixel prosumer range (Olympus E-10) and 6 megapixel pro models
> (Kodak).
>
> All the broadcast camera manufacturers like Sony and Panasonic are still
> approaching camera design from the traditional video mindset. No one has
> ventured outside the "standard" imager sizes, although all video formats are
> small by professional standards in the film world.
>> The one thing that would render all this HiDef standards wars irrelevant
> from the production side is an affordable SuperDefinition camera producing
> images at a multiple of any proposed distribution format. After all, you can
> downsample to nearly anything so long as you start from very high
> resolution. The thing that won't work is "sidegrading" -- resampling an
> image to essentially similar resolutions and formats.
>
> We're getting a little far ranging for a DV list...
>
> Danny Grizzle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:45:29 EDT
From: Direct35mm@aol.com
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
Message-ID:
--part1_fd.71d92ef.2847cf29_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I was about to purchase a new Mac G4 with the DVD-R but held off and am
considering the new Sony Vaio which at $2400 is $1100 less and I've always
been happy with the way Sony's DV-Gate software captures DV footage
effortlessly.
What I'm wondering is - is Final Cut Pro that impressive (over let's say
Premiere or other Windows software) that I should spend the extra $$ to edit
with a Mac?
--part1_fd.71d92ef.2847cf29_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I was about to purchase a new Mac G4 with the DVD-R but held off and am
considering the new Sony Vaio which at $2400 is $1100 less and I've always
been happy with the way Sony's DV-Gate software captures DV footage
effortlessly.
What I'm wondering is - is Final Cut Pro that impressive (over let's say
Premiere or other Windows software) that I should spend the extra $$ to edit
with a Mac?
--part1_fd.71d92ef.2847cf29_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:29:08 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rgen?= Ullberg
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Using PCs and Macs on a network
Message-ID:
>Steve,
You can use software like Dave from Thursby Software on the Titanium
to see and exchange files with the PCs on the network and there are
simular software you can use on PCs as well to see files on Macs, but
I cannot recall any of those, sorry.
J=F6rgen
>
>
>Assume one has an PB and an AirPort -- and the AP station is connected
>to Ethernet HUB -- to which is connected a cable modem as well as other
>PCs running W98 and W2000.
>
>Will the PB browse and do email just like a PC does? (I'm sure the
>answer is yes -- although I don't think the Mac has Outlook.)
>
>Will I be able to access the contents of the PC's disks from the Mac --
>just like I do now from my PC laptop?
>
>Will I be able to access the contents of the Mac's disks from the PC?
>
>I know that Office 2001 and Office 2000 will exchange files without
>conversions, But what about proprietary Mac AV software such as iMovie
>and FCP.
>
>Can AVI and WAV files be opened without conversion by proprietary Mac AV
>software such as iMovie and FCP. (I assume Premiere will input AVI and
>WAV.)
>
>Will the proprietary Mac AV software such as iMovie and FCP output AVI
>and WAV files. (I assume Premiere will output AVI and WAV.)
>
>In short, will I be able to freely move AV between both platforms?
>
>If not, it looks like I stay with Sony.
>
>
>Best Regards,
>Steve Mullen
>Digital Video Consulting NYC
>www.mindspring.com/~d-v-c
>
>
>-- (cut off when replying)-----------------
>This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
>http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
>http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its
>members.
>
>To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
>All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
>http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
>DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
--
J=F6rgen Ullberg
Krokv=E4gen 59
134 67 INGAR=D6
SWEDEN
Phone: (home) + 46 8 57142354
(day) + 46 8 164001
E-mail: m60ju21b@students.su.se
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:34:15 -0500
From: Danny Grizzle
To:
Subject: Re: still camera resolutions for video (was Cooke Primes
(warning: L O N G))
Message-ID:
on 5/31/01 11:37 AM, Saman Faraz at saman@firstsunfilms.com wrote:
> Someone else can say whether that 3 bytes per pixel is low or high, but even
> if it's 1 byte a pixel.. then we're looking at 180 mbytes/second transfer
> rates to streaming tape!!
> Sounds like a bottleneck to me..
Exactly. But this is what really needs to happen, the next holy grail of
video. HiDef is an intermediate step.
Industry lore surrounding future proofing production has always centered on
film origination. But the real factor at play was not film vs. video, but
rather high resolution origination feeding lower resolution distribution.
The same is true for video; that's why I would dismiss all currently
proposed HDTV production systems as short-term solutions. Production and
distribution cannot be symmetrical - production resolution must be a
multiple of the HDTV distribution/broadcast standard.
SuperDefinition video is on the horizon now, but there will have to be
technical breakthroughs to make it a reality.
What might be interesting is for somebody like SMPTE to work on a real
definition before the marketing hype kicks in. I'm still stunned that Apple
advertised the 120MHz PowerMac 8500 (c. 1995) with composite analog A/V
inputs as "broadcast quality". It would do QuickTime video about the size of
a postage stamp at 10 frames per second...
Danny Grizzle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:46:33 -0700
From: Richard Lin
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Using PCs and Macs on a network
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010531104449.037609e0@mail.3forces.com>
By far one of the best solutions for working with Macs and PC's on the same=
=20
network is to get an NT or Win2K Server box.
They can be had for about $1500 or so. Once on the network, your Mac's AND=
=20
PC's can coexist, share files, etc.
We do this all the time.
I used to go the route of DAVE from Thursby when you don't have a file=20
server and it works, but having a file server--just
for storing common files, applications, etc.. works wonderfully.
Richard Lin
editTRAIN.com
At 07:29 PM 5/31/01 +0200, you wrote:
>>Steve,
>
>
>You can use software like Dave from Thursby Software on the Titanium to=20
>see and exchange files with the PCs on the network and there are simular=20
>software you can use on PCs as well to see files on Macs, but I cannot=20
>recall any of those, sorry.
>
>J=F6rgen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:49:09 -0700
From: Kevin Marks
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Using PCs and Macs on a network
Message-ID:
At 12:23 pm -0400 31/5/01, Steve Mullen wrote:
>Scott, and any one else who has used both PCs and Macs. The Titanium PB
>looks very interesting compared to the Sony 505 VAIO as I consider
>replacing my old VAIO laptop.
>
>Assume one has an PB and an AirPort -- and the AP station is connected
>to Ethernet HUB -- to which is connected a cable modem as well as other
>PCs running W98 and W2000.
>
>Will the PB browse and do email just like a PC does? (I'm sure the
>answer is yes -- although I don't think the Mac has Outlook.)
Yes. It ships with Outlook Express, and there is an version of
Outlook available too, plus many other good mail clients (I use
Eudora)
>Will I be able to access the contents of the PC's disks from the Mac --
>just like I do now from my PC laptop?
Yes, though this may require some config work. NT can certainly share
files in a Mac-visible way.
>
>Will I be able to access the contents of the Mac's disks from the PC?
Yes, though this may require some config work. ftp & http both work
fine of course, its the platform- local protocoals hat need tweaking.
>I know that Office 2001 and Office 2000 will exchange files without
>conversions, But what about proprietary Mac AV software such as iMovie
>and FCP.
>
>Can AVI and WAV files be opened without conversion by proprietary Mac AV
>software such as iMovie and FCP. (I assume Premiere will input AVI and
>WAV.)
FCP yes, iMovie no - iMovie is DV only, and you need to render to DV
in QT Pro first.
>Will the proprietary Mac AV software such as iMovie and FCP output AVI
>and WAV files. (I assume Premiere will output AVI and WAV.)
Sure. QT Imports an exports AVI, and FCP uses it. Premiere will read
QT movies of course, and QT is a richer interchange format then AVI
or WAV
>In short, will I be able to freely move AV between both platforms?
Yes, QuickTime is your conduit here.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:50:52 +0000
From: Fogar
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Warm colors
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010531174910.0429c7d0@popmail.libero.it>
I'm sorry, why have I to do a manual white balance?
I think I could do a automatic white balance.
Is it so?
thanks Fogar
>my preferred method is to use colored gels over the lens when white
>balancing and then remove then shoot through an unfiltered lens. It gives a
>lot more control over the degree of warmth/coolness - by selecting subtly
>different gels to white balance through.
>
>So, in your case,
>
> 1) point the camera at a white card to do a manual white balance
> 2) hold a BLUE gel over the lens (the darker the blue, the warmer
> the image will be - I'd go with a 1/8th blue and experiment from
> there)
> 3) do the white balance
> 4) shoot as you normally would
>
>In order to give the image a blue (cooler) tint, then use an orange gel
>instead of a blue gel for the white balance step. Try it, it opens up lots
>of options and is faster, but less flexible, than doing it in post.
>
>Saman
> > Hello,
> > I have got a miniDV camera (Sony PC5 with one CCD) and I don't like
> > its image quality. It is a cold image. What filter could I use to heat
> > and to obtain a full colour of the image?
> >
> >
> > ...Try the 81B filter. It warms up tones very well without skewing all the
> > colors.
> >
> > -joseph
>
>-- (cut off when replying)-----------------
>This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
>http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
>http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
>To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
>All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
>http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
>DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:59:07 -0700
From: Jeff Newton
To: DV-L@DVCentral.org
Subject: Anyone familiar with Sony's new TRV30 - opinions?
Message-ID: <3B16866B.F271C1B7@pmc-sierra.com>
After much deliberation I think I'm going to purchase the new
TRV30 which will be available in June (at least in Canada). The
cost saving over the 900 is significant and TRV30 spec sheet
looks impressive enough to meet my needs. I'm a DV newbie but I
always like growing my abilities into my purchases so I hope the
TRV30 will enable me to do that.
I am curious about the video resolution performance differences
between the 3CCD cameras and the new TRV30. The TRV900, for
example, has 3 380k CCDs versus the TRV30 with 1 1500k CCD. How
much is actually used for video versus still resolution, though?
The TRV30 specs indicate 530 lines of resolution which sounds
pretty close to the 540 lines John Beales FAQ mentions for the
TRV900 so I wonder if the quality differences would be that
noticable. Having never owned a digital video camera I figured I
would ask the list. I suspect the 30 and 900 will eerform
identically in optimum conditions and the 900 will win out in low
light or not so ideal conditions.
I have to make a decision on the extended warranty. My camera
supplier doesn't push the warranty and claims anything covered
that is going to go wrong usually does so in the first year. Is
this true for things like tape-crinkle issues? Do buttons or
motors wear out on these devices?
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!
--
Jeff Newton
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:04:56 -0700
From: Adam Wilt
To: DV-L
Subject: RE: DVCAM vs miniDV
Message-ID: <3B1687C8.20C06FF7@flash.net>
> I had already looked at this pdf. There is only mention of the 15 micron
> track size, I found no published specs describing head size anywhere.
I have had multiple Sony engineers tell me that the current DVCAM head *is* 15
microns, and Perry has the photomicrographs to prove it.
> With DV the track size in SP is 10 microns and in LP it is 6.7 microns.
> This leads me to believe that the same head produces a different tack
> size due to the speed of the tape, because in LP a dv tape travels slower.
That's correct: there's a 33% overlap of one track with the next in LP mode
(as I believe the is recording DV Sp with a DVCAM head). However, as has been
mentioned before, azimuth differences between the two heads prevents
significant crosstalk between the signals, and playback recovery is excellent.
> If the theory that hacking a DV camera into DVCAM records a skinny 66%
> track there should be a very significant increase in data errors and
> drop outs. This has not been the case in my tests.
As long as the CNR (carrier to noise ratio) is well above the level where ones
are mistaken for zeros and vice versa you will not see any appreciable change
-- the so-called "cliff effect" of the sudden onset of errors in digital
recording. If anything the DV-width track on a DVCAM pitch would perform as
well as or slightly better than DV-width heads recording DV (same track width
gives same susceptibility to minor dropout "hits"; wider track pitch slightly
increases tolerances for tracking). All the DV formats have CNRs well above
the level where the cliff effect sets in so a very considerable drop in signal
level is required before errors creep in to any noticeable degree.
Cheers,
Adam Wilt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:05:26 -0700
From: Adam Wilt
To: DV-L
Subject: Re: DV Raptor Codec
Message-ID: <3B1687E6.D99B6461@flash.net>
> So I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who's been
> working with this codec. Any assessment of it would be
> appreciated; the more specific the better.
The Canopus software codec is one of the two best codecs I've found on the PC
platform, tied with Matrox. In 5-generation tests it holds more detail, more
accurately, with less artifacting, than any other codec I've seen other than
Matrox (software, PC) and QT 4.1.3/5.X (Mac only).
There are some minor differences between it and Matrox and QT, but it's been a
few months since I did the tests and I don't have the test results handy at
the moment. And as my tests were done with Premiere in RGB mode (Canopus runs
in YUV mode in RaptorEdit; don't know what Avid is going) some of the minor
differences might be due to YUV/RGB conversions.
Cheers,
Adam Wilt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:05:42 -0400
From: "David Cherniack"
To: Direct35mm@aol.com,
DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
Message-ID: <3B162586.2280.47A62EC@localhost>
By far and away the most impressive dv editing software on a laptop is Avid
Express DV. Byfarandaway. It runs only on Wintel machines. I'm not a religious
zealot about platforms, and I'm no fan of Avid Inc., but FCP, from what I could
see at NAB, is not in the same league.
From: Direct35mm@aol.com
Date sent: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:45:29 EDT
Subject: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Send reply to: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> I was about to purchase a new Mac G4 with the DVD-R but held off and am
> considering the new Sony Vaio which at $2400 is $1100 less and I've always
> been happy with the way Sony's DV-Gate software captures DV footage
> effortlessly.
>
> What I'm wondering is - is Final Cut Pro that impressive (over let's say
> Premiere or other Windows software) that I should spend the extra $$ to edit
> with a Mac?
>
___________________________________
Extended Films
dcherniack@canada.com
http://members.home.net/dcherniack
___________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:13:48 -0700
From: Adam Wilt
To: DV-L
Subject: Re: Quicktime (was Apple looking for speed?)
Message-ID: <3B1689DC.B8440E0D@flash.net>
> Um... Kevin, what OSes other than Apple's and WinTel does Apple
> provide or license a QT decored or encoder for?
It's a published standard anyone can licence and write to. At Omneon we are
using QT as the fundamental file format for our video servers, with DV, D-7,
DV50, MPEG-2, HDCAM, and uncompressed media, and it's running on our
multiprocessor StrongARM / i960 embedded systems. In our case we're using
hardware codecs and just had to write QT wrappers around them, but our files
are readable and displayable by PC and Mac versions of QT as long as they have
codecs for the media contained therein (easy with DV, not so common yet with
HDCAM!).
Cheers,
Adam Wilt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:13:39 -0700
From: "Lone Orchard Productions"
To:
Subject: RE: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID:
Scott Sanders Compared two systems.
================
Please do not compare an integrated Apple system to a PC system that you
pieced together yourself. For a good comparison, buy a turnkey system from
www.dvline.com and compare it to the Apple.
No conflicts and, within 30 minutes, I guarantee you will be editing.
two more cents.
Derek
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:17:29 -0700
From: "George Loch"
To:
Subject: Re: Anyone familiar with Sony's new TRV30 - opinions?
Message-ID: <000901c0ea06$55c74540$10b6bad0@csolutions.net>
Here is a hands on review of a trv20 which is very simular to the 30:
http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/trv20.html
George Loch
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Newton
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:59 AM
Subject: Anyone familiar with Sony's new TRV30 - opinions?
>
> After much deliberation I think I'm going to purchase the new
> TRV30 which will be available in June (at least in Canada). The
> cost saving over the 900 is significant and TRV30 spec sheet
> looks impressive enough to meet my needs. I'm a DV newbie but I
> always like growing my abilities into my purchases so I hope the
> TRV30 will enable me to do that.
>
> I am curious about the video resolution performance differences
> between the 3CCD cameras and the new TRV30. The TRV900, for
> example, has 3 380k CCDs versus the TRV30 with 1 1500k CCD. How
> much is actually used for video versus still resolution, though?
> The TRV30 specs indicate 530 lines of resolution which sounds
> pretty close to the 540 lines John Beales FAQ mentions for the
> TRV900 so I wonder if the quality differences would be that
> noticable. Having never owned a digital video camera I figured I
> would ask the list. I suspect the 30 and 900 will eerform
> identically in optimum conditions and the 900 will win out in low
> light or not so ideal conditions.
>
> I have to make a decision on the extended warranty. My camera
> supplier doesn't push the warranty and claims anything covered
> that is going to go wrong usually does so in the first year. Is
> this true for things like tape-crinkle issues? Do buttons or
> motors wear out on these devices?
>
> Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!
>
> --
> Jeff Newton
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:17:38 -0700
From: "Justus J. Schlichting"
To:
Subject: Re: Cross-fade formula?
Message-ID: <200105311819.OAA29582@mcfeely.concentric.net>
Although "if it works for you, use it" is pretty good advice,=
along
with some variant of "rules are made to broken", you may want to=
know
what the rules ARE before you break them. Or, if not what the=
rules
are, then what others before you have chosen to do, as THEY break=
the
rules. One classic text on film editing is "The Technique of=
Film
Editing" (Karel Reisz and Gavin Millar). For a completely=
different
approach, you might try "In The Blink of an Eye" by Walter Murch.=
Both are readily available.
-- Justus J. Schlichting, justus-j@deltanet.com on 05/31/2001
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:16:58 -0400
From: "Juda Steinfeld - B&H Photo Video Inc."
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Mini Dv Rewinder
Message-ID: <200105311823.OAA07745@bhphotovideo.com>
We finally have the Mini Dv Rewinder from Sima SRW-62 in stock for $49.95
Regards.
Juda Steinfeld B&H Photo Video & Pro Audio
420 Ninth Ave. New York NY 10001
(212)239-7500(pho)#2294 (212)239-7501(fax)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com
e-mail: judas@bhphotovideo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:32:31 -0400
From: "Christopher Van Nest"
To:
Subject: RE: Cross-fade formula?
Message-ID:
Good advice and I'll second both taping and practicing.
A coach of mine called it "Taping an Ape" (don't know if it's her original
term) and recommended we just tape and transcribe whatever shows and
performers we aspired to be like. In another class, we had a 60-minutes
editor/producer (Stephen Sheppard) do it with us for their internal edit
drafts to learn how they tell a story, including rundowns, structure,
transitions, and narration, and it helped a lot. It was actually quite
amazing to see how "professional" editors, like those for 60-minutes,
struggle with the same issues of story telling that most of us do. One word
of caution-- it's often easy to lapse into "passive" watching, where you're
just a normal viewer, so it might help to have a pad and paper with you and
force yourself to be active by transcribing either dialogue or just
structure (whatever you're after).
Then, of course, practice, practice, practice. There's really nothing like
being responsible for putting a production together, even a short one, and
then showing it yourself a day or two later and seeing what you like and
don't. Also helps to have friends, family, or co-workers check it out WITH
you-- sitting in a room with other people watching it really makes you
conscious of the bad points, even if no one explicitly says anything.
BTW, both of these classes were at NYU.
Good luck,
Christopher
____________________________
Host/Producer FREESPORT-TV
http://www.freesport-tv.com/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Lin [mailto:Richard@3forces.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:30 PM
> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Subject: Re: Cross-fade formula?
>
>
> What you call an "abrupt transition" really isn't always so. I assume
> you're referring to a CUT.
> Take two noncontinuous scenes, say a person running from one side of the
> screen, to another scene of
> the same person running the opposite direction---Right to Left, then Left
> to Right.
>
> You've got a JUMP CUT. Yep, it's abrupt.
>
> Take another scene, where you see a WIDE (overall) shot of a group of
> people standing. Now CUT to
> a MEDIUM shot (Include 2 or 3 people in the group at shoulder level) in
> the group, and it'll feel more
> natural. It won't be abrupt. Of course if it CUTs into a
> DIFFERENT group
> of people, then it would
> be abrupt.
>
> What you're asking is really --" How to I learn to edit?"
> My advice:
> Watch TV and Movies VERY CAREFULLY. Watch them with a "different
> eye". Not the same way a normal person
> watches a movie to experience it, but in a way where you notice HOW each
> scene makes you feel a particular way.
> Is it the music? What kind of music? Is the scene tense? What are the
> people doing? Notice scene transitions.
> How did they get from one location to another? How did they convey the
> passage of time? Did they show a clock?
> Did they do a long dissolve? Notice and listen to when you hear a voice
> and what you see on the screen. It's pretty
> common to hear the dialogue for the next scene in the very end of
> the scene
> you are viewing--this is known as
> an L-CUT or SPLIT EDIT.
>
> Then practice this on your own. Try different styles of editing. An
> exercise that is fun to do is to take two different rental movies,
> choose two scenes, tell a new story between them. One person
> might say "I
> Love You", and another movie might say "Yeah, but
> driving is so much more fun." Another variation is to do the same thing
> without audio. Choose an upbeat techno tune,
> and do a dynamic edit. Cut every few frames to the beat of the
> music. InterCUT the movies, and you'll see an interesting
> thing happen.
>
> Have fun!!
>
> Richard Lin
> editTRAIN.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 05:37 PM 5/31/01 -0700, you wrote:
> >Hi group!
> >
> >To those of you who have been doing film/video for a while, is there a
> >formula to placing either cross-fade transitions or just the plain old
> >abrupt transition. I have tried studying documentaries and
> movies to see if
> >there is a pattern to the frequency and use of these two transitions but
> >can't seem to see any formula. It mostly seems to work but is
> there a rule
> >of thumb?
> >
> >Is it something like in the case of a documentary - does one use
> cross-fades
> >during the naration of a particular thread or subject matter and then an
> >abrupt change when the subject changes, or vice-versa?
> >
> >I am going through my projecct to see if the transitions work and I'm not
> >sure what to look for.
> >
> >As for music? Yikes! I think that's a whole different kettle of
> fish...still
> >waiting for me to tackle.
> >
> >Thanks again for all the help
> >
> >masi
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:34:36 -0700
From: "Clesson Duke"
To:
Subject: Re: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
Message-ID: <00fe01c0ea00$5b3c6c40$0201a8c0@dev01>
Did you look at any of the FAST Multimedia systems? They have one that runs
on a laptop.
-
Clesson Duke
San Diego, CA USA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:38:20 EDT
From: NewsmanSGW@aol.com
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: miniDV cassette player/recorder
Message-ID:
Search e-Bay for a Sony GV-D900. The GV-D300 is the same but without the LCD
viewing screen. Many times you can find these items available new in a
sealed box for substantially less than elsewhere.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 13:45:56 -0500
From: "Scott Sanders"
To:
Subject: Re: Quicktime (was Apple looking for speed?)
Message-ID: <001401c0ea01$ede3cc90$b30310ac@chissanders>
Ohhh this posting begs the question. There wouldn't happen to be in the
works a HDCAM or any type of HD codec that could be compressed to and then
put out to tape kind of like DV but HDDV?
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Wilt"
To: "DV-L"
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: Quicktime (was Apple looking for speed?)
> > Um... Kevin, what OSes other than Apple's and WinTel does Apple
> > provide or license a QT decored or encoder for?
>
> It's a published standard anyone can licence and write to. At Omneon we
are
> using QT as the fundamental file format for our video servers, with DV,
D-7,
> DV50, MPEG-2, HDCAM, and uncompressed media, and it's running on our
> multiprocessor StrongARM / i960 embedded systems. In our case we're using
> hardware codecs and just had to write QT wrappers around them, but our
files
> are readable and displayable by PC and Mac versions of QT as long as they
have
> codecs for the media contained therein (easy with DV, not so common yet
with
> HDCAM!).
>
> Cheers,
> Adam Wilt
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 11:48:19 -0700
From: "Mark Williams"
To:
Subject: Re: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
Message-ID: <003501c0ea02$4415fde0$19b01e18@socal.rr.com>
what do people on the list think of the Sony Vaio Laptop for doing dv video
work...its got the Firewire, I got the Cannon XL1 with Firewire....seems
like it would be a good set-up...My brother-in-law is getting rid of his
Sony Vaio Laptop and I am thinking of buying it....
any comments
Mark Williams
Pacific Coast Digital
----- Original Message -----
From: David Cherniack
To: ;
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:05 AM
Subject: Re: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
> By far and away the most impressive dv editing software on a laptop is
Avid
> Express DV. Byfarandaway. It runs only on Wintel machines. I'm not a
religious
> zealot about platforms, and I'm no fan of Avid Inc., but FCP, from what I
could
> see at NAB, is not in the same league.
>
> From: Direct35mm@aol.com
> Date sent: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:45:29 EDT
> Subject: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Send reply to: DV-L@dvcentral.org
>
> > I was about to purchase a new Mac G4 with the DVD-R but held off and am
> > considering the new Sony Vaio which at $2400 is $1100 less and I've
always
> > been happy with the way Sony's DV-Gate software captures DV footage
> > effortlessly.
> >
> > What I'm wondering is - is Final Cut Pro that impressive (over let's say
> > Premiere or other Windows software) that I should spend the extra $$ to
edit
> > with a Mac?
> >
>
>
> ___________________________________
> Extended Films
> dcherniack@canada.com
> http://members.home.net/dcherniack
> ___________________________________
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:00:00 -0500
From: "Scott Sanders"
To:
Subject: Re: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID: <001b01c0ea03$e4c39bc0$b30310ac@chissanders>
Absoutly agree with your point! And in fact you just made mine. I probably
could have worded it differently as opposed to a PC vs Mac. Probably should
have been turnkey vs. open. Most of the arguments that I was at least
paying attention to were the open versus closed system arguments. Yea a
turnkey PC system I would hope would work as well as a turnkey Mac system.
But when people are talking about systems being open and doing DV and
quicktime on linux (such as "well what other OS's is QT licensed on?") and
more along the lines of "open" slap'em together PCs that they can through
anything together on as opposed to a turnkey system either Mac or PC is my
point. I happened to go turnkey Mac because I don't like the whole XP
commin way of things. But a PC turnkey probably would have worked just as
well. Ohh and buy the way thanks for the ad but I prefer to deal with
www.promax.com for I've found they have superb customer support and
priceing. As well as great Mac support:)
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lone Orchard Productions"
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 1:13 PM
Subject: RE: Apple looking for speed?
> Scott Sanders Compared two systems.
> ================
>
> Please do not compare an integrated Apple system to a PC system that you
> pieced together yourself. For a good comparison, buy a turnkey system from
> www.dvline.com and compare it to the Apple.
>
> No conflicts and, within 30 minutes, I guarantee you will be editing.
>
> two more cents.
>
> Derek
>
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:04:26 -0700
From: "Clesson Duke"
To:
Subject: Re: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID: <011601c0ea04$838c1b60$0201a8c0@dev01>
Your 'benchmark' of DV-Line turnkey system appears to be nothing more than
DV-Line's pieced together system. Most PC turnkey systems are exactly
that... systems pieced together from known working parts. You can agree or
disagree that it may be an asset to be able to accomplish that... or to be
able to buy an HP, Compaq, Dell, IBM, and a host of other name brands to do
the same thing.
True... with Apple you have your choice of Apple, Apple or Apple.
Does cut down the confusion, doesn't it?
Does it cut down competitive prices or options?
Only an Apple owner will say.
Should I compare my Hewlett-Packard Quad processor (733 MHz Xeon cpu) with
4GB RAM against a G4? Would that be fair?
Edit systems are what the editor likes and is used to. Nothing, short of
that system not being made anymore (save Amiga) will cause the editor to
change platforms. Everything else is hyperbole and platform wars.
The end product should be a quality edit job with artistic and creative
content both visually and most importantly with great audio. A good video
looks bad if lousy audio is present. A bad video looks good if the audio is
fantastic. It makes no matter how or on what it was edited... T-Bar, Amiga,
Apple or PC.
-
Clesson Duke
San Diego, CA USA
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:24:14 -0400
From: jmerser
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Which windows combo to buy?
Message-ID:
Hey all,
I have a friend who wants to get into inexpensive video editing.
Mostly home movie
stuff, however he's in Germany and needs a PAL solution. What do you
guys recommend?
jmerser
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:51:47 +0000
From: Fogar
To:
Subject: Premium or Excellence miniDV videotape.
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010531175102.0429fdb8@popmail.libero.it>
Hi,
I'd like know what difefrences there are between
Premium and Excellence miniDV videotapes.
They have a different cost.
thanks Fogar
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:29:13 -0700
From: "Fred Greissing"
To:
Subject: RE: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID:
Anton Antokhin wrote:
>I don't know who Premiere people talked to, but obviously no one who >does
video editing for a living.
Pretty nasty comment to make Anton.
I know a lot of people who make a living using Premiere and judging by both
Premiere and FCP I'm sure that they both spoke to a lot of people and
listened to them too. Adobe also listened to designers and multimedia
communicators a bit more than FCP. Oh Apple also told the FCP team not to
listen to Windows users. Premiere's integration with Photoshop, Illustrator,
AFTER EFFECTS (notice the capital letters) and GoLive make's it a much more
powerful tool for editing, designing and visual effects. If I am cutting a
traditional film I would be happy with both Premiere and FCP. Anything else
the path would be Premiere > After Effects > Premiere > Tape.
There is one big difference however. Premiere is owned by an independent
company, FCP was bought up for marketing reasons by Apple and locked it up
on the Apple platform. It's a pity that FCP did not remain with Macromedia.
To get an idea of the potential of Windows for editing and composting you
just have to look at Soft Image SD (now AVID something or other), Shake and
a little lower down to the Canopus Storm.
Any way I think that a very important point to make is that we all spend a
lot of time in front of our machines and thus become quite addicted and
formed around our preferred application. This makes us all the last person
to JUDGE the applications we don't use extensively. I have often spoken to
FCP fans that are busy giving Premiere bad rap. I only have to ask them a
few questions to find out that they know very little about Premiere and FCP.
The next big thing to keep an eye on is Windows XP 64 bit OS and the Itanium
CPU from Intel. 64 bit After Effects anyone?
The current big thing Xeon 1.7 Ghz CPUs
Wouldn't you love to edit on a Quad Xeon 1.7 Ghz machine. Premiere will make
use of all four CPUs when rendering. Think of FCP on a 6.8 Ghz machine.
Fred
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:29:13 -0700
From: "Fred Greissing"
To:
Subject: RE: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID:
Hi Scott
>Having bought the
>Canopus DV Raptor system (totally awesome system if you can get a >system
>to work with it) and trying 5 different Athalon mother boards all
>from
>different manufactures to no avail I decided to try the Mac
>approach.
You could also look at it this way. First you tried the do it your self way
and then went with a turn key vendor. You should have considered a turn key
vendor like www.dvline.com or www.videoguys.com
Also going the Athlon rout was kind of asking for it. Need a reliable
workstation for probably the most demanding desktop task, video editing, and
you went for a discount CPU.????
Canopus also has the cleanest DV codec on the market.
Fred
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 20:24:37 +0100
From: "Simon Beer"
To:
Subject: Production Search Engine...
Message-ID: <001901c0ea07$55a32600$1b3a6ac2@Simon>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0EA0F.B69E2380
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ladies & Gentlemen,
In an attempt to collate a concise listing of production related web =
sites we=20
at www.video-camera.com have now gone online with our categorised and=20
searchable engine.
Getting listed is totally free and comes with no strings attached. The =
more=20
companies and individuals that sumbit their sites the greater a resource =
we can=20
create.
Pop by and share your site with the world at www.video-camera.com
Thanks for your time.
Simon.
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0EA0F.B69E2380
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ladies & Gentlemen,
In an = attempt to=20 collate a concise listing of production related web sites we
at www.video-camera.com have now = gone online=20 with our categorised and
searchable engine.
Getting listed is = totally=20 free and comes with no strings attached. The more
companies = and=20 individuals that sumbit their sites the greater a resource we can=20
create.
Pop by and share your site with the world at www.video-camera.com
Than= ks for=20 your time.
Simon.
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C0EA0F.B69E2380--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:45:55 -0700
From: "Dick Lague"
To:
Subject: Re: Anyone familiar with Sony's new TRV30 - opinions?
Message-ID: <001d01c0ea0a$4f14a720$0400a8c0@charterpipeline.com>
I know the prices in Canada are probably quite high on DV cameras, however
there is no comparing a 3CCD camera to a 1 CCD camera. I went through the
same thing and bought a TRV9 several years ago. There was little choice in
3 CCD cameras at the time. I could have bought an XL-1, but that would
have been a big mistake.
If you can afford it buy the TRV900. If you want the best quality for the $
[IMHO] right now, get a new Sonly VX-2000. They are $2200 to 2700 here in
the US.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Newton
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 10:59 AM
Subject: Anyone familiar with Sony's new TRV30 - opinions?
>
> After much deliberation I think I'm going to purchase the new
> TRV30 which will be available in June (at least in Canada). The
> cost saving over the 900 is significant and TRV30 spec sheet
> looks impressive enough to meet my needs. I'm a DV newbie but I
> always like growing my abilities into my purchases so I hope the
> TRV30 will enable me to do that.
>
> I am curious about the video resolution performance differences
> between the 3CCD cameras and the new TRV30. The TRV900, for
> example, has 3 380k CCDs versus the TRV30 with 1 1500k CCD. How
> much is actually used for video versus still resolution, though?
> The TRV30 specs indicate 530 lines of resolution which sounds
> pretty close to the 540 lines John Beales FAQ mentions for the
> TRV900 so I wonder if the quality differences would be that
> noticable. Having never owned a digital video camera I figured I
> would ask the list. I suspect the 30 and 900 will eerform
> identically in optimum conditions and the 900 will win out in low
> light or not so ideal conditions.
>
> I have to make a decision on the extended warranty. My camera
> supplier doesn't push the warranty and claims anything covered
> that is going to go wrong usually does so in the first year. Is
> this true for things like tape-crinkle issues? Do buttons or
> motors wear out on these devices?
>
> Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!
>
> --
> Jeff Newton
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:55:52 -0700
From: "Fred Greissing"
To:
Subject: RE: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID:
If you are not a very hardened "assembler" what ever system you buy go to a
good "value added reseller". For editing on a MAC check out www.promax.com
and others. When they are well configured both Wintel and MAC systems do a
great job.
Fred
-----Original Message-----
From: Lone Orchard Productions [mailto:derek@loneorchard.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:14 AM
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Apple looking for speed?
Scott Sanders Compared two systems.
================
Please do not compare an integrated Apple system to a PC system that you
pieced together yourself. For a good comparison, buy a turnkey system from
www.dvline.com and compare it to the Apple.
No conflicts and, within 30 minutes, I guarantee you will be editing.
two more cents.
Derek
-- (cut off when replying)-----------------
This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:54:16 -0700
From: Michael Bender
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: still camera resolutions for video (was Cooke Primes(warning: L O N
G))
Message-ID: <3B16A168.E5B0E2C2@eng.sun.com>
Danny Grizzle wrote:
> Industry lore surrounding future proofing production has always centered on
> film origination. But the real factor at play was not film vs. video, but
> rather high resolution origination feeding lower resolution distribution.
>
> The same is true for video; that's why I would dismiss all currently
> proposed HDTV production systems as short-term solutions. Production and
> distribution cannot be symmetrical - production resolution must be a
> multiple of the HDTV distribution/broadcast standard.
Would you think this to be true even if the production and distribution
formats were all uncompressed so that (theoretically) there would be
no loss anywhere in the chain?
mike
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Bender E-Mail: Michael.Bender@eng.sun.com
Sun Microsystems, Inc. Tel: 650-614-6941
901 San Antonio Road
Palo Alto, CA 94303-4900
Mailstop: MPK06-201
Never give up! Never surrender!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 13:08:11 -0700
From: "Lone Orchard Productions"
To:
Subject: RE: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID:
>>>Your 'benchmark' of DV-Line turnkey system appears to be nothing more
than
DV-Line's pieced together system.
Sorry for the confusion, I was just using DVLine as an example of a system
that I know works out of the box. Yes there are many turnkey providers. Sure
they are nothing more than pieced together systems, but the provider takes
the guesswork out of the process and tests everything thoroughly.
My main point was to explain that you cannot compare Apple to oranges.
I don't have enough experience with Macs to comments on the values of Mac
vs. PC.
>>>The end product should be a quality edit job with artistic and creative
content both visually and most importantly with great audio. A good video
looks bad if lousy audio is present. A bad video looks good if the audio is
fantastic. It makes no matter how or on what it was edited... T-Bar, Amiga,
Apple or PC.
I agree 100%.
Derek
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:35:25 +0400
From: "david e. kahn"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Anyone familiar with Sony's new TRV30 - opinions?
Message-ID:
on 5/31/01 9:59 PM, Jeff Newton at Jeff_Newton@pmc-sierra.com wrote:
>
> After much deliberation I think I'm going to purchase the new
> TRV30 which will be available in June (at least in Canada). The
> cost saving over the 900 is significant and TRV30 spec sheet
> looks impressive enough to meet my needs. I'm a DV newbie but I
> always like growing my abilities into my purchases so I hope the
> TRV30 will enable me to do that.
>
> I am curious about the video resolution performance differences
> between the 3CCD cameras and the new TRV30. The TRV900, for
> example, has 3 380k CCDs versus the TRV30 with 1 1500k CCD. How
> much is actually used for video versus still resolution, though?
> The TRV30 specs indicate 530 lines of resolution which sounds
> pretty close to the 540 lines John Beales FAQ mentions for the
> TRV900 so I wonder if the quality differences would be that
> noticable. Having never owned a digital video camera I figured I
> would ask the list. I suspect the 30 and 900 will eerform
> identically in optimum conditions and the 900 will win out in low
> light or not so ideal conditions.
>
> I have to make a decision on the extended warranty. My camera
> supplier doesn't push the warranty and claims anything covered
> that is going to go wrong usually does so in the first year. Is
> this true for things like tape-crinkle issues? Do buttons or
> motors wear out on these devices?
>
> Any and all advice is greatly appreciated!
Hello: Their are two things besides the lens filter you will need to
deceide. As relates to warranty, for myself if you are buying one with a
platium card then you have a built in extended warranty. Check with your
credit card company and they will tell you. This is especially good when
you are going outside of your own country and it is stolen, broken or
something similar. Please remember that repair cost are expensive and that
in most cases the camera does not carry a manufactures long warranty. The
best I have seen is a year and in some cases not that length. In the USA
for example repairs advarage over two hundred dollars at canon. After
seven years they do not repair as most companies do not and then you do
spent alot. I know from experience. Most four year warranties cost about
70 to 90 USA dollars. Tughollow
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:41:15 -0400
From: "Christopher Van Nest"
To:
Subject: More About Avid Xpress DV (was RE: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R)
Message-ID:
David, could you elaborate on what you like better about Avid Xpress DV vs.
other editing programs? I'm specifically interested in comparing Xpress DV
2.x to Premiere 6.x, but any comparison you have are welcome. I've read some
articles on 2-pop comparing Xpress to Final Cut, and visited Avid's website
and requested a demo CD. But their website doesn't have many screen shots
and their demo CD is for their older version with the Intellistation, not
version 2 (the latter surprised me for a company of their size).
Thanks,
Christopher
____________________________
Host/Producer FREESPORT-TV
http://www.freesport-tv.com/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Cherniack [mailto:dcml@canada.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:06 AM
> To: Direct35mm@aol.com; DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Subject: Re: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
>
>
> By far and away the most impressive dv editing software on a
> laptop is Avid
> Express DV. Byfarandaway. It runs only on Wintel machines. I'm
> not a religious
> zealot about platforms, and I'm no fan of Avid Inc., but FCP,
> from what I could
> see at NAB, is not in the same league.
>
> From: Direct35mm@aol.com
> Date sent: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:45:29 EDT
> Subject: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Send reply to: DV-L@dvcentral.org
>
> > I was about to purchase a new Mac G4 with the DVD-R but held off and am
> > considering the new Sony Vaio which at $2400 is $1100 less and
> I've always
> > been happy with the way Sony's DV-Gate software captures DV footage
> > effortlessly.
> >
> > What I'm wondering is - is Final Cut Pro that impressive (over
> let's say
> > Premiere or other Windows software) that I should spend the
> extra $$ to edit
> > with a Mac?
> >
>
>
> ___________________________________
> Extended Films
> dcherniack@canada.com
> http://members.home.net/dcherniack
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 20:49:28 +0000
From: Fogar
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Warm colors
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20010531204032.02df2568@popmail.libero.it>
Hi,
these colored gels are built for cameras or videocameras?
Are they accessories for videocameras? Where could I buy them?
Thanks Fogar
>my preferred method is to use colored gels over the lens when white
>balancing and then remove then shoot through an unfiltered lens. It gives a
>lot more control over the degree of warmth/coolness - by selecting subtly
>different gels to white balance through.
>
>So, in your case,
>
> 1) point the camera at a white card to do a manual white balance
> 2) hold a BLUE gel over the lens (the darker the blue, the warmer
> the image will be - I'd go with a 1/8th blue and experiment from
> there)
> 3) do the white balance
> 4) shoot as you normally would
>
>In order to give the image a blue (cooler) tint, then use an orange gel
>instead of a blue gel for the white balance step. Try it, it opens up lots
>of options and is faster, but less flexible, than doing it in post.
>
>Saman
> > Hello,
> > I have got a miniDV camera (Sony PC5 with one CCD) and I don't like
> > its image quality. It is a cold image. What filter could I use to heat
> > and to obtain a full colour of the image?
> >
> >
> > ...Try the 81B filter. It warms up tones very well without skewing all the
> > colors.
> >
> > -joseph
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:01:21 -0400
From: Keith
To:
Subject: Re: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID:
On 5/30/01 10:25 PM, Walter Starck got thrown off a skyscraper and screamed:
> Dave Haynie is a computer engineer whose considerable experience includes the
> development of Apple compatible systems. If one is genuinely interested in
> the relative merits of different systems they would do well to try to
> understand what he is saying rather than engaging in knee jerk defenses of
> anything seen as being in any way critical of Apple.
Perhaps, but I can speak for at least one Adobe software developer/tester
who says quite the opposite. And c'mon, those Unix comments were absurd.
Keith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:03:08 -0400
From: Keith
To:
Subject: Re: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID:
On 5/30/01 10:40 PM, jmerser@concentric.net got thrown off a skyscraper and
screamed:
> so only if Motorola pulls the plug, or can't keep up, will a nice big
parachute be deployed. So, don't look for OS X on intel unless there is a
major problem w/ Motorola.
The AREN'T keeping up.
> And don't worry Mac fans, word has it that the 1 gig barrier is broken and
> quad processors machines will be out by Xmas.
Um... and Intel will have a 2-gigger out by late summer.
Keith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:14:40 -0400
From: Keith
To:
Subject: Re: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID:
On 5/31/01 3:04 PM, Clesson Duke got thrown off a skyscraper and screamed:
> Should I compare my Hewlett-Packard Quad processor (733 MHz Xeon cpu) with
> 4GB RAM against a G4? Would that be fair?
It might be if you mention price.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:17:28 -0400
From: Keith
To:
Subject: Re: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID:
On 5/31/01 3:29 PM, Fred Greissing got thrown off a skyscraper and screamed:
> The next big thing to keep an eye on is Windows XP 64 bit OS and the Itanium
> CPU from Intel. 64 bit After Effects anyone?
Insane copy-protection and .NET anyone?
> The current big thing Xeon 1.7 Ghz CPUs
> Wouldn't you love to edit on a Quad Xeon 1.7 Ghz machine. Premiere will make
> use of all four CPUs when rendering. Think of FCP on a 6.8 Ghz machine.
These are actually supposed to be quite good for video (but not much
else--currently). Check out tomshardware.com for a recent review of the P4
1.7GHz (not Xeon though).
Keith
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:38:40 -0700
From: Richard Lin
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Warm colors
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010531143736.05400850@mail.3forces.com>
gels really don't look like gels. They look like colored plastic film.
You buy them in rolls at any grip supply store. Like Moletown if you're in
Los Angeles,
or you can buy them mailorder.
Richard Lin
At 08:49 PM 5/31/01 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi,
>these colored gels are built for cameras or videocameras?
>Are they accessories for videocameras? Where could I buy them?
>
> Thanks Fogar
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 14:39:17 -0700
From: "Tyler A. Hawes"
To:
Subject: RE: Which windows combo to buy?
Message-ID:
Recommendations on what exactly? The editing platform?
If he is starting out from scratch, I suggest getting Premiere 6 and an OHCI
card. There is an inexpensive bundle of Premiere with the Pyro card (I think
it's only about $260).
If he wants something with more power, than I'd suggest the DVStorm. It
handles both PAL and NTSC and has the most real-time capabilities and
stability.
Tyler A. Hawes, Director of Services
Krysalis Productions
incubating creativity . . .
Web Development | Video & Animation | Editing Systems
www.KrysalisProductions.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jmerser [mailto:jmerser@pop3.concentric.net]
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:24 PM
> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Subject: Which windows combo to buy?
>
>
> Hey all,
>
> I have a friend who wants to get into inexpensive video editing.
> Mostly home movie
> stuff, however he's in Germany and needs a PAL solution. What do you
> guys recommend?
>
> jmerser
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:43:17 -0500
From: Danny Grizzle
To:
Subject: Re: still camera resolutions for video (was Cooke Primes(warning:
L O N G))
Message-ID:
on 5/31/01 2:54 PM, Michael Bender at Michael.Bender@eng.sun.com wrote:
>> The same is true for video; that's why I would dismiss all currently
>> proposed HDTV production systems as short-term solutions. Production and
>> distribution cannot be symmetrical - production resolution must be a
>> multiple of the HDTV distribution/broadcast standard.
>=20
> Would you think this to be true even if the production and distribution
> formats were all uncompressed so that (theoretically) there would be
> no loss anywhere in the chain?
Yes. Unless you can get all world governments to unite and agree on a final
solution for a single standardized broadcast video format.
That's not going to happen, but even if it did, the market would still
demand an even higher resolution production format, because theatrical
release continues to thrive, and the success of even larger formats such as
IMAX and Omni reveal a need for high end professional tools.
=B3HDTV=B2 is *still* a morass of competing standards proposals. The last 10
years of NAB have been like a car show, with 24P the latest "concept
vehicle" to hit limited production.
Any Photoshop user knows that it is better to downsample an image from high
resolution to an evenly divisible smaller size. If you want to munge an
image, about the worst thing you can do is scale up, or maybe worse,
completely interpolate a near-duplicate image from one size to another
without dropping the resolution by at least half. Add another layer of
interpolation code to account for standards conversion, and what is left?
The more things change, the more things stay the same. In some ways, the
front end of video cameras really hasen't changed much in the last 20 years=
.
The engineers that build them still have a video mindset. At one level this
is like bad poetry, with the rhymes driving the flow. In the case of video,
it has been all downhill, with 2/3" CCDs the sacred cow, working down from
there because that's where the technology has been easiest. Smaller imagers
and compact camcorders are great for specialty use and the consumer market,
but they don't have what it takes to achieve the technical artistry and
longevity expected of high end production.
Now we have a push for larger CCDs coming from the still photography world,
which will perhaps absorb lots of the R&D costs. To a person like me,
spoiled by rapid evolution of computer hardware, it appears we are just a
few technical breakthroughs away from adapting a large size 3-6 megapixel
imager into a "SuperDefinition" video format. Along the way, we can rid
ourselves of the RGB optical block that is until now has been a
blessing/curse for quality video cameras.
Danny Grizzle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:06:22 +0100
From: Andy Stevens
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Anyone familiar with Sony's new TRV30 - opinions?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010531150209.02f707c0@mail.ulti-media.com>
At 10:59 AM 5/31/01 -0700, you wrote:
>I am curious about the video resolution performance differences
>between the 3CCD cameras and the new TRV30. The TRV900, for
>example, has 3 380k CCDs versus the TRV30 with 1 1500k CCD. How
>much is actually used for video versus still resolution, though?
Quality being a given, comparison of a 1 chip vs a 3 chip camera is like
comparing apples and oranges.
If saving is your goal, the single chip is the right choice. If quality is
the goal, lines of resolution should only be one of several points of
comparison.
Andy
Ulti-Media Productions
Broadcast, Corporate and Multimedia Production
http://www.ulti-media.com
2101 Commercial, Anacortes WA 98221 1-360-299-2524 or Fax 1-360-299-2525
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:12:20 +0100
From: Andy Stevens
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: DV Raptor Codec
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010531150912.02f75630@mail.ulti-media.com>
At 11:05 AM 5/31/01 -0700, you wrote:
>The Canopus software codec is one of the two best codecs I've found on the PC
>platform, tied with Matrox. In 5-generation tests it holds more detail, more
>accurately, with less artifacting, than any other codec I've seen other than
>Matrox (software, PC) and QT 4.1.3/5.X (Mac only).
Also there is the Purple system from Fast which uses the QT codec using the
Fast Studio editing system.
Andy
Ulti-Media Productions
Broadcast, Corporate and Multimedia Production
http://www.ulti-media.com
2101 Commercial, Anacortes WA 98221 1-360-299-2524 or Fax 1-360-299-2525
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:08:57 -0400
From: Russ Dorio
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: More About Avid Xpress DV (was RE: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4
with DVD-R)
Message-ID: <3B16C0F9.1110F30A@mailbox.bellatlantic.net>
I just got delivery of my Avid Xpress DV 2.0.I don't have time to give a long
comparison but I will tell you Preieme is a toy compared to AXDV2. I
don't mean to offend anyone but that is my take on it. Now saying that keep
in mind that the Avid software is 3 times the cost of Premiere. For me
the choice was between FCP and Avid. FCP has more features but the
Avid is stronger in media management. I also work as a freelancer on
Avids so I was already familiar with the interface.
It comes down to the type of work you are doing and which one serves your needs better.Avid as of now won't give you real time effects. Premiere and
FCP at least have add ons if you spend more money. Keep asking questions
and check other sites. Story telling, Documentaries, Avid is the best for my money. Need effects and razzle dazzle go with FCP or Premiere.
BTW don't hold your breath waiting for CD's etc. from Avid. As much as
I like their product,they think the rises and sets over them.Oh well can't
have everything. There are more comparison to be made for each one
pro and con. FPC users please don't slam me I think its a great product.
I wish I could run my Avid on a MAC. Hope this helps a little bit.
Christopher Van Nest wrote:
> David, could you elaborate on what you like better about Avid Xpress DV vs.
> other editing programs? I'm specifically interested in comparing Xpress DV
> 2.x to Premiere 6.x, but any comparison you have are welcome. I've read some
> articles on 2-pop comparing Xpress to Final Cut, and visited Avid's website
> and requested a demo CD. But their website doesn't have many screen shots
> and their demo CD is for their older version with the Intellistation, not
> version 2 (the latter surprised me for a company of their size).
>
> Thanks,
> Christopher
> ____________________________
> Host/Producer FREESPORT-TV
> http://www.freesport-tv.com/
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Cherniack [mailto:dcml@canada.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 11:06 AM
> > To: Direct35mm@aol.com; DV-L@dvcentral.org
> > Subject: Re: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
> >
> >
> > By far and away the most impressive dv editing software on a
> > laptop is Avid
> > Express DV. Byfarandaway. It runs only on Wintel machines. I'm
> > not a religious
> > zealot about platforms, and I'm no fan of Avid Inc., but FCP,
> > from what I could
> > see at NAB, is not in the same league.
> >
> > From: Direct35mm@aol.com
> > Date sent: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:45:29 EDT
> > Subject: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
> > To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> > Send reply to: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> >
> > > I was about to purchase a new Mac G4 with the DVD-R but held off and am
> > > considering the new Sony Vaio which at $2400 is $1100 less and
> > I've always
> > > been happy with the way Sony's DV-Gate software captures DV footage
> > > effortlessly.
> > >
> > > What I'm wondering is - is Final Cut Pro that impressive (over
> > let's say
> > > Premiere or other Windows software) that I should spend the
> > extra $$ to edit
> > > with a Mac?
> > >
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________
> > Extended Films
> > dcherniack@canada.com
> > http://members.home.net/dcherniack
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com, http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe: http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 15:28:16 -0700
From: Kevin Marks
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Which windows combo to buy?
Message-ID:
At 3:24 pm -0400 31/5/01, jmerser wrote:
>Hey all,
>
>I have a friend who wants to get into inexpensive video editing.
>Mostly home movie
>stuff, however he's in Germany and needs a PAL solution. What do
>you guys recommend?
iMac starts at DM 2.499 including tax, or iBook from DM 3.499
If you must have Windows, VirtualPC is DM 649 extra (Most of which is
a Windows 98 licence)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:54:17 -0400
From:
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Which windows combo to buy?
Message-ID:
Hey Kevin,
You know I'm a mac guy, BUT many people are windows guys.
This person is a "dye in the wool" windows man. That's his life.
Hey, that works for him, . . . cool.
So, Mac is simply not what he wants.
And yes, he's in Germany, so PAL is a must.
jmerser
>At 3:24 pm -0400 31/5/01, jmerser wrote:
>>Hey all,
>>
>>I have a friend who wants to get into inexpensive video editing.
>>Mostly home movie
>>stuff, however he's in Germany and needs a PAL solution. What do
>>you guys recommend?
>
>iMac starts at DM 2.499 including tax, or iBook from DM 3.499
>
>If you must have Windows, VirtualPC is DM 649 extra (Most of which is
>a Windows 98 licence)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:02:35 -0400
From:
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: Which windows combo to buy?
Message-ID:
Yeah, a nice, fast , stable system (CPU, Card, Storage)
that will make quick work of the 6 vacations' worth of DV footage
he's compiled. And yes, looks like Premier 6 is on the top of the
list as far as software. Will external firewire drives do the job for
a windows machine, or is that a bad idea?
Cards:
Raptor?
Storm?
RT2500?
DV500?
OHCI?
Pros and cons . . .?
jmerser
>Recommendations on what exactly? The editing platform?
>
>If he is starting out from scratch, I suggest getting Premiere 6 and an OHCI
>card. There is an inexpensive bundle of Premiere with the Pyro card (I think
>it's only about $260).
>
>If he wants something with more power, than I'd suggest the DVStorm. It
>handles both PAL and NTSC and has the most real-time capabilities and
>stability.
>> Subject: Which windows combo to buy?
>>
>>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I have a friend who wants to get into inexpensive video editing.
>> Mostly home movie
>> stuff, however he's in Germany and needs a PAL solution. What do you
>> guys recommend?
>>
>> jmerser
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:14:59 -0700
From: Kevin Marks
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Which windows combo to buy?
Message-ID:
At 6:54 pm -0400 31/5/01, jmerser@concentric.net wrote:
>Hey Kevin,
>
>You know I'm a mac guy, BUT many people are windows guys.
>This person is a "dye in the wool" windows man. That's his life.
>Hey, that works for him, . . . cool.
>So, Mac is simply not what he wants.
>And yes, he's in Germany, so PAL is a must.
prejudice is a terrible thing...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:16:01 EDT
From: Direct35mm@aol.com
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Avid Xpress DV
Message-ID:
--part1_fd.7252710.28482ab1_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Will Avid DV Express import 16x9 DV footage?
Also, will it work on a new Sony Vaio Pent-4 1.7 Gigahertz Computer. It would
be ideal considering the Sony comes with firewire and a DVD recorder.
--part1_fd.7252710.28482ab1_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Will Avid DV Express import 16x9 DV footage?
Also, will it work on a new Sony Vaio Pent-4 1.7 Gigahertz Computer. It would
be ideal considering the Sony comes with firewire and a DVD recorder.
--part1_fd.7252710.28482ab1_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:34:33 -0500
From: "Marc C. Hood, EdD"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Which windows combo to buy?
Message-ID: <3B16D509.9035CC25@adent.com>
Kevin Marks wrote:
> At 6:54 pm -0400 31/5/01, jmerser@concentric.net wrote:
> >Hey Kevin,
> >
> >You know I'm a mac guy, BUT many people are windows guys.
>
> prejudice is a terrible thing...
At last Kevin, something we agree on ;-)
I'm still loving my ThinkPad with OHCI/Premiere 6 and Win2K. I guess you'd call it a built system...I had to plug in the OHCI card, install P6, and format the 75GB IBM DeskStar (also had
to install it into the Pyro case). Everything worked great and I've been happy ever after.
mhood
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:39:05 -0700
From: "Robert C. Fisher"
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Favourite lenses for JVC GY-DV500U?
Message-ID: <3B16D619.E51C3C92@pacbell.net>
Sandy MacDonald wrote:
> I'm about to upgrade from my original packaged Fuji lense. Thought it
> would be worthwhile to ask what kind of value the great wide world had
> got from other lenses. Also... how has your experience been with using
> various primes... I'm looking at a 1K to 2K investment which will
> impact significantly on my video quality.
The thing that will impact your image quality the most(bang for the buck) is buying a Fujinon 20-1 zoom $2600-2800. This will give you the best overall improvment. I purchased a 1/2" to
Nikon addapter and this works great but you have to keep in mind that any 35mm lens will be a telephoto lens on the DV500. A wide angle is below 7mm. the Nikon addapter is great for long
lens shots, now I can put my 200mm Nikor on or rent a 300mm for those great long lens compressed shots. The thing to do is to look at the mm for the image size you most often shot at if
you can shoot a lot at 25mm then maybe a 24mm Nikor would be a good thing to have with the addapter but also make sure the lens will focus at infinity because a used lens might be worn and
need service to focus to infintiy. This can be pretty expensive and having every lens serviced and matched to the addapter and camera. The longer lenses aren't as much of a problem due to
depth of focus behind the lens, wider lenses have less depth of focus but more depth of field. A good thing to do is to get a primer on optics so you will understand what the problems are
with using various lenses on video cameras.
I hope this makes sense.
Cheers
Bob Fisher
FishPond Digital
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 20:10:57 -0400
From: Em
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: DV Vs. 601
Message-ID:
Hi folks,
Does anyone know of any Info about DV Vs. 601(CCIR)
I 've tried 2-pop but had no luck .
Thanks
Em
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:18:20 -0600
From: "Jeff Hammond"
To:
Subject: Re: DV Vs. 601
Message-ID: <00e801c0ea30$612c31f0$60eb0142@VAIO>
Em,
try www.dvcentral.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Em"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 6:10 PM
Subject: DV Vs. 601
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Does anyone know of any Info about DV Vs. 601(CCIR)
> I 've tried 2-pop but had no luck .
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Em
>
>
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:24:16 -0700
From: "Tyler A. Hawes"
To:
Subject: RE: DV Vs. 601
Message-ID:
That's a very big subject. DV is a low-bandwidth 4:1:1 video format with a
fixed data rate that was initially developed for consumer applications and
has wide popularity. Because of its limited color space, it is less-able to
handle compositing chores than a professional format. However, for cuts-only
and less-complex compositing and most shots it can produce excellent results
that are hard to tell from a professional format.
601 is an NTSC standard that, in this context, is most related to working
with video uncompressed. You would probably be using at least a 4:2:2 source
such as D-9, DVCPRO50, DVCAM50, or a high-end analog format such as BetaSP
to take advantage of 601-resolution editing. This is very expensive relative
to DV-based solutions.
Beyond that cursory overview, you'll need to get more specific with your
query...
Tyler A. Hawes, Director of Services
Krysalis Productions
incubating creativity . . .
Web Development | Video & Animation | Editing Systems
www.KrysalisProductions.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Em [mailto:zap1@sympatico.ca]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:11 PM
> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Subject: DV Vs. 601
>
>
>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Does anyone know of any Info about DV Vs. 601(CCIR)
> I 've tried 2-pop but had no luck .
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:29:14 -0700
From: "Tyler A. Hawes"
To:
Subject: RE: Which windows combo to buy?
Message-ID:
I'd go one extreme or the other:
DVStorm / OHCI
Tons of Real-Time / No RT, but very cheap
Analog + DV / DV Only
High System Requirements / Low Requirements
Professional / Hobbyist
If he has a lot of disposable income he may want to take the plunge on
DVStorm - it is a joy to work with even for a beginner. However, he can
always start with OHCI and then upgrade to DVStorm later if he finds his
interest grows.
Tyler A. Hawes, Director of Services
Krysalis Productions
incubating creativity . . .
Web Development | Video & Animation | Editing Systems
www.KrysalisProductions.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jmerser@concentric.net [mailto:jmerser@concentric.net]
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 4:03 PM
> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Subject: RE: Which windows combo to buy?
>
>
> Yeah, a nice, fast , stable system (CPU, Card, Storage)
> that will make quick work of the 6 vacations' worth of DV footage
> he's compiled. And yes, looks like Premier 6 is on the top of the
> list as far as software. Will external firewire drives do the job for
> a windows machine, or is that a bad idea?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 20:40:13 -0400
From: Em
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: DV Vs. 601
Message-ID:
Hi and Thanks I'll try it out.....
Em
>Em,
>
>try www.dvcentral.org
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Em"
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 6:10 PM
>Subject: DV Vs. 601
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Does anyone know of any Info about DV Vs. 601(CCIR)
>> I 've tried 2-pop but had no luck .
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Em
>>
>>
>>
>> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
>> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
>http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
>http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>>
>> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
>> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
>http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
>> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>>
>
>-- (cut off when replying)-----------------
>This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
>http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
>http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
>To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
>All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
>http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
>DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:35:50 -0700
From: "Mark Williams"
To:
Subject: Re: Which windows combo to buy?
Message-ID: <000701c0ea32$cf73a1a0$19b01e18@socal.rr.com>
what the heck is OHCI?
----- Original Message -----
From: Tyler A. Hawes
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 5:29 PM
Subject: RE: Which windows combo to buy?
> I'd go one extreme or the other:
>
> DVStorm / OHCI
> Tons of Real-Time / No RT, but very cheap
> Analog + DV / DV Only
> High System Requirements / Low Requirements
> Professional / Hobbyist
>
> If he has a lot of disposable income he may want to take the plunge on
> DVStorm - it is a joy to work with even for a beginner. However, he can
> always start with OHCI and then upgrade to DVStorm later if he finds his
> interest grows.
>
>
> Tyler A. Hawes, Director of Services
> Krysalis Productions
> incubating creativity . . .
>
> Web Development | Video & Animation | Editing Systems
> www.KrysalisProductions.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jmerser@concentric.net [mailto:jmerser@concentric.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 4:03 PM
> > To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> > Subject: RE: Which windows combo to buy?
> >
> >
> > Yeah, a nice, fast , stable system (CPU, Card, Storage)
> > that will make quick work of the 6 vacations' worth of DV footage
> > he's compiled. And yes, looks like Premier 6 is on the top of the
> > list as far as software. Will external firewire drives do the job for
> > a windows machine, or is that a bad idea?
>
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 20:48:14 -0400
From: Em
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: DV Vs. 601
Message-ID:
Hi,
Thanks for the Info..this is exactly what I needed to hear...
The question was based on a future system purchase...
So, now I know and more informed...Thank you..
I heard different things like...DV is amazing..or better
than 601 and up...I had a very hard time beliving that
since 3.6mb/sec compression ratio...Sorry... I'm old school
Targa 2000 pro, Avid, Media 100 and various film formats
Thanks and Take Care
Em
That's a very big subject. DV is a low-bandwidth 4:1:1 video format with a
>fixed data rate that was initially developed for consumer applications and
>has wide popularity. Because of its limited color space, it is less-able to
>handle compositing chores than a professional format. However, for cuts-only
>and less-complex compositing and most shots it can produce excellent results
>that are hard to tell from a professional format.
>
>601 is an NTSC standard that, in this context, is most related to working
>with video uncompressed. You would probably be using at least a 4:2:2 source
>such as D-9, DVCPRO50, DVCAM50, or a high-end analog format such as BetaSP
>to take advantage of 601-resolution editing. This is very expensive relative
>to DV-based solutions.
>
>Beyond that cursory overview, you'll need to get more specific with your
>query...
>
>Tyler A. Hawes, Director of Services
>Krysalis Productions
> incubating creativity . . .
>
>Web Development | Video & Animation | Editing Systems
>www.KrysalisProductions.com
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Em [mailto:zap1@sympatico.ca]
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 5:11 PM
>> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
>> Subject: DV Vs. 601
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Does anyone know of any Info about DV Vs. 601(CCIR)
>> I 've tried 2-pop but had no luck .
>>
>
>
>-- (cut off when replying)-----------------
>This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
>http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
>http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
>To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
>All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
>http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
>DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:56:05 -0700
From: "Tyler A. Hawes"
To:
Subject: RE: Which windows combo to buy?
Message-ID:
Open Host Configuration Interface. It's a industry standard for
Firewire/IEEE-1394 interface cards/drivers. The ADS Pyro is a popular
example of such. Many of the leading NLE packages have added support for
capture/export through these devices (which you can get for under $100).
Premiere 6, Avid Xpress DV, Vegas Video are just a few NLEs that support
them.
Tyler A. Hawes, Director of Services
Krysalis Productions
incubating creativity . . .
Web Development | Video & Animation | Editing Systems
www.KrysalisProductions.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Williams [mailto:mark@sunset.win.net]
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 5:36 PM
> To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
> Subject: Re: Which windows combo to buy?
>
>
> what the heck is OHCI?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:14:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas White
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: firewire drives
Message-ID: <20010601011451.94394.qmail@web14301.mail.yahoo.com>
Hi,
I may need to rent an NLE system to do a project
before my new system arrives. One arrangement would
involve me using a firewire drive to store my project
while working on the rented equipment.
I haven't yet used one of these drives. I'm assuming
that you need two firewire ports on the system, one
for interfacing the firewire drive with the OS, and
another on the DV card to capture data. If this is not
how it works, someone please enlighten.
Any special considerations or concerns?
Thanks.
--Doug
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35
a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:16:53 EDT
From: Jmendza440@cs.com
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Which "unbundled" IEEE 1394 I/O board for Premiere 6.0?
Message-ID:
I have a VHS-c camera tape. Can I convert this to digital? After editing it
in digital how do i convert it back to analog?:)
Thanks,
Joselito
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:24:39 -0400
From:
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Avid Xpress DV
Message-ID:
--============_-1220763814==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Will Avid DV Express import 16x9 DV footage?
>
>Also, will it work on a new Sony Vaio Pent-4 1.7 Gigahertz Computer. It would
>be ideal considering the Sony comes with firewire and a DVD recorder.
Yes, it will work in 16X9.
I don't know about that laptop. Avid is known for being
pretty finicky about setups. I'd go to the website www.avid.com and
check for the real details.
jmerser
--============_-1220763814==_ma============
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Arial0000,0000,8080Will
Avid DV Express import 16x9 DV footage?
Also, will it work on a new Sony Vaio Pent-4 1.7 Gigahertz Computer. It
would
be ideal considering the Sony comes with firewire and a DVD recorder.
Arial0000,0000,8080
Yes, it will work in 16X9.
I don't know about that laptop. Avid is known for being
pretty finicky about setups. I'd go to the website www.avid.com and
check for the real details.
jmerser
--============_-1220763814==_ma============--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:27:00 -0700
From: "Carlin Comm"
To:
Subject: eShades
Message-ID:
I saw this product online recently, appears to be still in development. Alot
like what the Sony Glastron glasses were, from what I see. The currently
developing version is for use with laptops, to cut down on battery drain of
powering the LCD display.
I emailed the company asking if there would be a AV compatible version,
explaining the possible use with camcorders (view finder, field display),
and got the feeling if there were enough interest they may consider it.
The email I got back is below, including contact information, etc. With some
of the resources we have available on this list, it may be worth looking
into in the early development stage and perhaps we could steer it toward
something useful as say a field monitor. Maybe someone like ProMax would be
interested in the development kit? $6500 chump change, right?
Thanks for your time.
Carlin Comm
BlueStar Productions
207 Yakima Street, Suite 204
Wenatchee, WA 98801
509-664-1032
http://www.ncwvideo.com
Wedding and Event Video, 3D Graphics, Animations
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Brewner [mailto:jbrewner@inviso.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 6:04 PM
To: 'Carlin Comm'
Subject: RE: eShades
The optimal solution and we are in early stage under NDA is to integrate
our either monocular or binocular Near To Eye LCOS displays into the camera
as a dataviewer/reviewer as you're able to see the image in a 19" SVGA
resolution video monitor equivalent. I have to discourage you on
considering purchase of our Eval Kit unless you have already designed a LCIS
microdisplay into a MPU based system. This requires h/w and s/w design and
development expertise plus the Kit itself is priced at $6,500. This is no
small task.
We are focused on very high volume commercial opportunities with our
technology plus supporting OEMs targeting various vertical markets. If
there is any way to provide some product information on eShades that you
could share with your user community then happy to help as we are trying to
generate as much visibility for eShades which represent a real breakthrough
for a lightweight, high resolution wearable display.
Jim Brewner
Director of Sales
Inviso, Inc.
1330 Bordeaux Drive
Sunnyvale, CA 94089
Office 408 215 0718 (New DDI Number)
Mobile 408 505 2070
Fax 408 734 9911
E-Fax 208 361 1304
E-mail jbrewner@inviso.com
Alternate jbrewner@hotmail.com
Web http://www.inviso.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:41:47 +0900
From: jhogg
To:
Subject: Re: firewire drives
Message-ID: <200106010141.KAA23877@apm01.m2.ocv.ne.jp>
I think you can use a Firewire hub with the drive and DV device connected
to it. If not, I'd like to hear what others think, as that is what I'm
thinking about using in the near future.
As far as Firewire drives, make sure you get a drive with the oxford
chipset. You can buy an encloser and put in an ATA drive yourself. The
enclosers are available from Other World Computing (www.macsales.com)
and Granite Digital (www.granitedigital.com)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:52:12 -0400
From: John Jackman
To:
Subject: Re: computer monitor flicker
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010531215124.00aad1b0@pop.compuserve.com>
At 12:53 AM 5/31/01 -0700, Masi wrote:
>I am trying to take a shot with a computer monitor in it that is on.
>Unfortunately, the camera is reading the display on the computer monitor
>with a flicker of sorts. Actually it's alternating bands of light and dark
>(not black) passing through the computer monitor from top to bottom.
Tips on this at:
http://www.greatdv.com/production/shootmonitors.htm
John Jackman
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:00:18 -0400
From:
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: DV Vs. 601(too much information)
Message-ID:
>Hi folks,
>
>Does anyone know of any Info about DV Vs. 601(CCIR)
>I 've tried 2-pop but had no luck .
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Em
I'm sure that Adam Wilt or Perry M. could dive much deeper into this
than I, but 601 is short for serial digital video signal based on SMPTE 259M.
That same signal was call CCIR-601 and then changed to ITU-601 but is known
as 601.
Basically that means digital component video sampled at 4:2:2
at 13.5MHz for the luminance channel and 6.75 for chrominance.
SDI is the professional method of moving digital video signals around
long distances (big pipes). There are many flavors including HDTV and 601.
1394 (firewire, iLink) is only good for about 16 feet unless there's a repeater
or it is turned into optical. SDI can go (I think) over 600 feet.
As far as compression goes, that voodoo is accomplished inside the camera,
computer, tape deck or all the above. You can send a compressed or
uncompressed signal via SDI. So far,
1394 (DV) is only being used to move DV@25mb per second video(DV), though
1394b has he ability to move up to 800mbps now. Things could change in a
heartbeat, but what won't
change is that 1394 is a BUS, like scsi. It's just that Sony used it to
move digital video signal,
and it worked really well. That's because it is all 1's and 0's after all.
So, the pluses for 601 are, you can move a higher (or lower) quality signal
much further
without issue when compared to 1394.
The minuses are that cool goodies like deck control, A/C power and the
ability for machines
to talk to each other are not in the protocol of SDI.
Each have their place.
Do some searches on google for more than you'll want to know.
jmerser
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:16:39 +0100
From: Andy Stevens
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: computer monitor flicker
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20010531191610.02e4c410@mail.ulti-media.com>
At 09:52 PM 5/31/01 -0400, you wrote:
>At 12:53 AM 5/31/01 -0700, Masi wrote:
>>I am trying to take a shot with a computer monitor in it that is on.
>>Unfortunately, the camera is reading the display on the computer monitor
>>with a flicker of sorts. Actually it's alternating bands of light and dark
>>(not black) passing through the computer monitor from top to bottom.
Set the refresh rate to 60 on the monitor....
Andy
DV Master Pro & Speed Razor Users Forum
http://www.ulti-media.com/dvmaster_pro.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 19:05:52 -0700
From: Charles F. McConathy
To:
Subject: Re: Avid Xpress DV
Message-ID: <1010531190601.69008ab.3f774447.ASIP6.3.1.280441@mail.promax.com>
Direct35mm@aol.com Wrote
>Will Avid DV Express import 16x9 DV footage?
>
>Also, will it work on a new Sony Vaio Pent-4 1.7 Gigahertz Computer. It
>would be ideal considering the Sony comes with firewire and a DVD recorder.
The Vaio is in the que to be qualified but has not so far. Some issues to
work out yet according to AVID. I hope it happens. We have a clone Laptop
that is much cheaper and is looking good but has not been qualified by
Avid. We will soon.
We showed Xpress DV 2 at ShowBiz Expo at the Los Angeles Convention
Center today with excellent response. We also demonstrated FCP 2.0 and
Canopus Storm. The realtime features of Storm got great comments and
response.
FWIW
Charles F. McConathy
www.promax.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:09:25 -0400
From: John Jackman
To:
Subject: Re: DV Sound Book
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010531220831.00aae370@pop.compuserve.com>
At 12:53 AM 5/31/01 -0700, Villas wrote:
>Wow, Jay Rose, if you are on this list, I wanna say your "producing great
>sound for DV" is a great book!!!
AFAIK Jay is not on this list, but I has forwarded your post on to him --
John Jackman
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 22:38:09 -0400
From: Em
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: DV Vs. 601(too much information)
Message-ID:
Wow! cool more info....
Thanks
Em
>I'm sure that Adam Wilt or Perry M. could dive much deeper into this
>than I, but 601 is short for serial digital video signal based on SMPTE 259M.
>That same signal was call CCIR-601 and then changed to ITU-601 but is known
>as 601.
>Basically that means digital component video sampled at 4:2:2
>at 13.5MHz for the luminance channel and 6.75 for chrominance.
>
>SDI is the professional method of moving digital video signals around
>long distances (big pipes). There are many flavors including HDTV and 601.
>1394 (firewire, iLink) is only good for about 16 feet unless there's a
>repeater
>or it is turned into optical. SDI can go (I think) over 600 feet.
>
>As far as compression goes, that voodoo is accomplished inside the camera,
>computer, tape deck or all the above. You can send a compressed or
>uncompressed signal via SDI. So far,
>1394 (DV) is only being used to move DV@25mb per second video(DV), though
>1394b has he ability to move up to 800mbps now. Things could change in a
>heartbeat, but what won't
>change is that 1394 is a BUS, like scsi. It's just that Sony used it to
>move digital video signal,
>and it worked really well. That's because it is all 1's and 0's after all.
>
>So, the pluses for 601 are, you can move a higher (or lower) quality signal
>much further
>without issue when compared to 1394.
>The minuses are that cool goodies like deck control, A/C power and the
>ability for machines
>to talk to each other are not in the protocol of SDI.
>Each have their place.
>
>Do some searches on google for more than you'll want to know.
>
>jmerser
>-- (cut off when replying)-----------------
>This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as
>http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com,
>http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
>To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
>All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe:
>http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
>DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:55:54 +0000
From: villas
To:
Subject: Re: DV Sound Book
Message-ID:
Thanks, their are so many half assed written, typo laden, big font lookin'
crappy books out there, but not this one, definitely not.
John T.
>
> AFAIK Jay is not on this list, but I has forwarded your post on to him --
>
> John Jackman
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 20:09:43 -0700
From: "Alexei Gerulaitis"
To:
Subject: RE: DV Vs. 601(too much information)
Message-ID: <007a01c0ea48$4eba9710$6c01a8c0@sherlock>
Jim,
: You can send a compressed or
: uncompressed signal via SDI.
Can you confirm that? I do believe that SDI is for uncompressed only,
optionally with embedded audio. SDTI (Serial Data Transport Interface)
handles DV50 (and possibly other things?) natively, is backward
compatible with SDI (will carry uncompressed 601) signal and wiring.
Here is a write-up on Matrox web site:
http://www.matrox.com/videoweb/news/press/papers/sdti.htm
They even talk about some relation between DV25 and SDTI (DV25 being a
subset, a specific implementation of SDTI) but I really could not get
into it now.
Would someone be able to digest and repurpose this info for general
medium-level geek consumption? Adam Wilt is already covering a lot of
it, but I don't think he covered SDTI in detail. DV Central is awaiting
the hero...
Best,
Alexei, http://dv411.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:34:47 -0700
From: "masi"
To:
Subject: Re: Cross-fade formula?
Message-ID: <00a101c0eab3$800aa240$8f2b4fca@a6r2y3>
Thanks all for the valuable advice on cross-fading. It has all been very
helpful. Now am going to try a few of the points brought up. Unfortunately I
am in Nepal and books are hard to come by here Thanks for the text
references, though.
masi
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 13:10:44 -0700
From: Aleksandr Milewski
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: DVCAM vs miniDV
Message-ID:
At 9:45 AM -0700 on 5/30/01, Fred Greissing commanded the electrons
to create a missive titled "RE: DVCAM vs miniDV":
|I had already looked at this pdf. There is only mention of the 15 micron
|track size, I found no published specs describing head size anywhere.
"Track Size" is a misleading term. There are two terms that have
relevance, track pitch (which is determined by tape speed) and track
width, which is determined by the width of the head.
||With DV the track size in SP is 10 microns and in LP it is 6.7 microns. This
|leads me to believe that the same head produces a different tack size due to
|the speed of the tape, because in LP a dv tape travels slower. Remember the
|tape head is oblique.
Well, this is where things get confusing. The head produces the same
track width no matter how slowly the tape moves. However, at the
slower speeds, successive tracks overwrite each other.
Let's ignore the angles of helical scan and azimuth recording for a
moment and pretend we're dealing with a raster device. (Think
dot-matrix printer) DVCAM works like this:
Write a 15u wide track
Advance the tape 15u
Write a 15u wide track
Advance the tape 15u
All is well, and you get 15u wide tracks on 15u centers.
Now, lets consider a DVCAM head writing DV SP.
Write a 15u wide track
Advance the tape 10u
Write a 15u wide track
Advance the tape 10u
What do you have? The last 2.5u of the first track gets overwritten
by the second track. So that 10u wide track has 7.5u of it's intended
data, and 2.5u of the next track, and so on.
Now, if you look carefully, what you'll find is that you do end up
with 10u wide tracks, but the whole recording is shifted 2.5u
earlier. With decent tracking, this is a non-issue, and a DV deck
should have no trouble reading DV written by a DVCAM deck.
In fact, this is why DV LP works at all, the end result is a
recording with 6.67u tracks, with the trailing edge of each track
having been overwritten by the next.
The magic of azimuth recording is that adjacent tracks are
"invisible", so you can read an LP tape with DV heads because the
1.67u on either side of the LP track disappear. The same is true for
DVCAM reading DV SP.
|If the theory that hacking a DV camera into DVCAM records a skinny 66% track
|there should be a very significant increase in data errors and drop outs.
|This has not been the case in my tests.
Why? 66% is -1.8dB, well within the AGC range of any well-designed
read channel. That said, you're really rather have those 2dB as
dropout margin, right?
Does this explain things, or have I only muddied the water?
-Zandr
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Aleksandr Milewski N6MOD
n6mod@milewski.org http://www.milewski.org/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:34:16 +0800
From: Randy Quimpo
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***
Message-ID:
Richard,
How do you propose to set the reference points for the X,Y,Z axes? Will the
DV camera have an RF connection to some external device that the user will
set down somewhere? This external device will have to emit some sort of
signal that the camera will track to create the X,Y,Z imaging, otherwise the
camera can only track the X,Y axes, and its very possible that the camera
will have to track not one but two reference points to make a proper 3d
image (same way lots of motion capture systems do). Take note that the
wireless RF mouse you're talking about is only tracking X and Y coordinates
- much easier than tracking in a 3D space.
Just my two RMB worth.
Randy Quimpo
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Lin [mailto:Richard@3forces.com]
How hard can it be? You can buy wireless RF mice
for powerpoint presentations that track X and Y coordinates.
Now us compositors can have the cheapest motion control cameras out
there. Anything can become a motion controlled device---shopping carts,
wheel chairs, skateboards.
Richard Lin
editTRAIN.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 20:46:53 -0700
From: Charles F. McConathy
To:
Subject: Re: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
Message-ID: <1010531204702.6959979.3f774447.ASIP6.3.1.281226@mail.promax.com>
Mark Williams Wrote
>what do people on the list think of the Sony Vaio Laptop for doing dv video
>work...its got the Firewire, I got the Cannon XL1 with Firewire....seems
>like it would be a good set-up...My brother-in-law is getting rid of his
>Sony Vaio Laptop and I am thinking of buying it....
>
>any comments
>
>Mark Williams
>Pacific Coast Digital
>
There is a number of issues with Vaio that must be overcomed - like
working around the video display issues - before Vaio will work with Avid
Xpress DV. I understand the Premiere has a plug-in that fixes the issue.
FWIW
Charles F. McConathy, President
ProMax Systems, Inc. - 16 Technology Drive #106 - Irvine, CA 92618
Digital Video Editing Systems - Camcorders and Decks
SALES: 1-800-977-6629 - FAX: 949-727-3546 - http://www.promax.com
Good Web Site: www.2-pop.com - Good Lists: Send message to
majordomo@promax.com - subscribe firewwug
DV-List visit http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:52:01 +0800
From: Randy Quimpo
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***
Message-ID:
Hi again Richard
...or you can use GPS for your camera's reference points. The pitch and yaw
of the camera will be tracked by an onboard gyroscope...plus you better add
functions to track the lens zoom and stuff like that. Oops - no longer a
simple task, but still doable.
Randy Quimpo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:57:20 -0400
From: "bullardc"
To:
Subject: adobe premiere transition problem
Message-ID: <015501c0ea4e$f4fc54a0$9a0f850a@hppav>
Anyone know why a transition (basic dissolve cross fade) would cause a matte
circle to appear oblong during the transition, but normal before and after
the transition? Does it have anything to do with the project settings? (dv
ntsc) Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:08:40 -0700
From: "Felix Gallo"
To:
Subject: 3d motion tracking in-camera (was Re: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***)
Message-ID: <002101c0ea50$8f993680$19992b04@cats>
Randy writes:
> ..or you can use GPS for your camera's reference points. The pitch and yaw
> of the camera will be tracked by an onboard gyroscope...plus you better
add
> functions to track the lens zoom and stuff like that. Oops - no longer a
> simple task, but still doable.
GPS isn't accurate enough to track a camera's motion,
and doesn't work indoors. Not that you actually need
X/Y/Z reference points -- the camera itself can be made
the reference for the scene.
There are a number of systems that do motion capture
(which is what this is) -- they're all very expensive, at
retail, and last I checked, they grew finicky if any metal
was in the area.
With a few inclinometers and accelerometers, a microcontroller
and a little memory, you could do this system today for a
relatively small amount of money, say $1000. Or you could
be a REAL MAN, and have a camera capable of precision-
navigating its way down a chimney and blowing a building into
smithereens using some cool military technology to do the
same basic thing:
http://home.earthlink.net/~dkisi19/dmars_i.htm
:)
Felix
fsg@cumulonimbus.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 12:18:38 +0800
From: Randy Quimpo
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: 3d motion tracking in-camera (was Re: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURER
S LISTEN UP ***)
Message-ID:
Rightly said, Felix. But Richard Lin's original suggestion was that it was a
cheap add-on to existing DV cameras - which it obviously isn't, otherwise
motion control manufacturers would be doing that already.
Randy Q
-----Original Message-----
From: Felix Gallo [mailto:fsg@cumulonimbus.com]
There are a number of systems that do motion capture
(which is what this is) -- they're all very expensive, at
retail, and last I checked, they grew finicky if any metal
was in the area.
Felix
fsg@cumulonimbus.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:21:30 -0700
From: Aleksandr Milewski
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: DV Vs. 601(too much information)
Message-ID:
At 8:09 PM -0700 on 5/31/01, Alexei Gerulaitis commanded the
electrons to create a missive titled "RE: DV Vs. 601(too much
information)":
|Jim,
|
|: You can send a compressed or
|: uncompressed signal via SDI.
|
|Can you confirm that? I do believe that SDI is for uncompressed only,
|optionally with embedded audio.
I work in digital cable/broadcast/satellite, and we have always used
SDI to refer to uncompressed digital. We work frequently with ASI
(technically DVB-ASI) which is MPEG-2 Transport over a physical layer
that is nearly identical to SDI. (SDI doesn't care about inversion,
ASI does.) There are other differences, such as SDI being 270Mbps,
and ASI theoretically topping out at 216, etc.
-Zandr
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Aleksandr Milewski N6MOD
n6mod@milewski.org http://www.milewski.org/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:23:42 -0700
From: Aleksandr Milewski
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: RE: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***
Message-ID:
At 11:34 AM +0800 on 6/1/01, you commanded the electrons to create a
missive titled "RE: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***":
|Take note that the
|wireless RF mouse you're talking about is only tracking X and Y coordinates
|- much easier than tracking in a 3D space.
|
|Just my two RMB worth.
|
|Randy Quimpo
Maybe I'm being thick here, but why does that require anything more
than a third accelerometer? Inertial navigation isn't rocket science.
(OK, so it _was_ invented for rockets, but progress marches on, right?)
-Zandr
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Aleksandr Milewski N6MOD
n6mod@milewski.org http://www.milewski.org/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:37:33 -0700
From: Evan Robinson
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID:
At 5:03 PM -0400 on 2001.05.31, Keith wrote about "Re: Apple looking
for speed?":
>On 5/30/01 10:40 PM, jmerser@concentric.net got thrown off a skyscraper and
>screamed:
>
>> so only if Motorola pulls the plug, or can't keep up, will a nice big
>parachute be deployed. So, don't look for OS X on intel unless there is a
>major problem w/ Motorola.
>
>The AREN'T keeping up.
>
>
>> And don't worry Mac fans, word has it that the 1 gig barrier is broken and
>> quad processors machines will be out by Xmas.
>
>Um... and Intel will have a 2-gigger out by late summer.
And this is relevant how? Comparing different processor families by
core clock speed is like comparing video cameras by tape size.
Obvious, Easy, and Irrelevant.
Evan
Remember When...
It wasn't odd to have two or three "best" friends.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:49:26 +1000
From: "Carter, Gil (RSA, Brisbane)"
To: "'DV-L@dvcentral.org'"
Subject: Motion capture (was RE: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***)
Message-ID: <9DDBE39552A9D411B6F400508BAF55C23EDD58@exaus01.local.aus.rsa.com>
> Maybe I'm being thick here, but why does that require anything more
> than a third accelerometer?
>
We can very quickly get *way* off topic here, so I'll limit my comments.
Have a look at http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/projects/hummingbird/ for
neat little 6DOF inertial navigation system with a little background on what
bits you need to do this kind of work.
> Inertial navigation isn't rocket science. (OK, so it _was_ invented for
rockets, but progress marches
> on, right?)
If you've ever tinkered with building your own Kalman filters for inertial
nav data, you'll be well aware that there is quite bit more to getting good
results than you might first imagine. As with most things, getting OK
results is easy - getting *good* results is hard, especially with cheap
(read noisy) accelerometers and gyros :-)
Another completely different approach to camera tracking is to post-process
the footage from the camera and use photogrammetry to map the environment
the camera has filmed. By measuring perspective change between frames, you
can reproduce a pretty good facsimile of the path the camera took.
I worked on a proprietary system which did this in a previous job, but
RealViz have a commercial system called MatchMover which does something
similar:
http://www2.realviz.com/products/mm/index.php
Gil
----------
Gil Carter
Senior Software Engineer
RSA Security Australia
http://www.rsasecurity.com.au
ph (07) 3227 4475
fax (07) 3227 4400
"Good judgement comes from making mistakes, and a lot of mistakes come from
bad judgement"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 14:24:34 +0900
From: jhogg
To:
Subject: Re: Sony Vaio with DVD-R vs Apple G4 with DVD-R
Message-ID: <200106010524.OAA15702@apm01.m2.ocv.ne.jp>
Go for the G4 and Final Cut Pro. FCP is great software.
As far as support goes, the mac users on this list are more than helpful
if you come across something you don't understand. Also there is a great
FCP resource at www.2-pop.com. Check it out for a while and see what
kinds of things people are dealing with over there too. 2-pop is a very
dynamic site.
>I was about to purchase a new Mac G4 with the DVD-R but held off and am
>considering the new Sony Vaio which at $2400 is $1100 less and I've always
>been happy with the way Sony's DV-Gate software captures DV footage
>effortlessly.
>
>What I'm wondering is - is Final Cut Pro that impressive (over let's say
>Premiere or other Windows software) that I should spend the extra $$ to edit
>with a Mac?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:58:01 -0700
From: Richard Lin
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Motion capture (was RE: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***)
Message-ID: <3B172EE9.56054E8B@3forces.com>
Wow cool---- thanks!
Richard Lin
"Carter, Gil (RSA, Brisbane)" wrote:
> > Maybe I'm being thick here, but why does that require anything more
> > than a third accelerometer?
> >
>
> We can very quickly get *way* off topic here, so I'll limit my comments.
> Have a look at http://www.media.mit.edu/physics/projects/hummingbird/ for
> neat little 6DOF inertial navigation system with a little background on what
> bits you need to do this kind of work.
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:06:02 -0700
From: Richard Lin
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: 3d motion tracking in-camera (was Re: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS
LISTEN UP ***)
Message-ID: <3B1730CA.55FE4862@3forces.com>
Actually my original suggestion was NOT that it was cheap, but that it would be
a GREAT and much desired add on. My secondary comment was that it MAY not
be that expensive to add. For the type of people wanting the capability on a consumer camera, it's the same
as consumer versus Pro gear. You want absolutely dead on accurate tracking data?
Buy a pro model. But want something that will relieve much of the problems with motion tracking,
or give low budget filmmakers a sense of what motion controlled photography is all about, hey
why not?
Sure it has limitations, but it'll work. And if it saves them money and time, then so be it.
As for your last comment that "motion control manufacturers would be doing that already?" I have to
disagree. Manufacturers don't do things just because they are cheap to do. They do it because they
believe there is demand, and if it's cheap enough, they'll do it. How many of us have asked for this feature?
I'm probably the first. But why not open up peoples minds that they should ask the manufacturers
to add this?
My 2cents.
Richard Lin
editTRAIN.com
Randy Quimpo wrote:
> Rightly said, Felix. But Richard Lin's original suggestion was that it was a
> cheap add-on to existing DV cameras - which it obviously isn't, otherwise
> motion control manufacturers would be doing that already.
>
> Randy Q
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Felix Gallo [mailto:fsg@cumulonimbus.com]
>
> There are a number of systems that do motion capture
> (which is what this is) -- they're all very expensive, at
> retail, and last I checked, they grew finicky if any metal
> was in the area.
>
> Felix
> fsg@cumulonimbus.com
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com, http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 02:08:02 -0400
From: Dave Haynie
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: Apple looking for speed?
Message-ID: <20010601015524.96A4.DHAYNIE@jersey.net>
On Tue, 29 May 2001 16:32:34 -0400, Keith jammed all =
night, and by sunrise was heard saying:
> On 5/29/01 12:58 AM, Dave Haynie got thrown off a skyscraper and screamed=
:
>=20
> > But for today, as things went? I barely even pay attention to MacOS
> > anymore, it's just not relevant. Sad thing, too, because any real
> > competition both keeps Microsoft in line, and maintains the public
> > mindset that other OSs are practical. Linux, now on more systems than
> > MacOS by the latest reports, is in that niche. And it'll do pretty good
> > video, sooner or later, what with large file support, stability, etc.
> Don't count on Linux taking desktop market share away from Apple.
Apple seems to be losing desktop share, fast. I suspect Windows it
taking most of it, and Linux isn't yet taking significant desktop share
=66rom Windows (or anyone else).=20
> Personally, I feel that Linux will soon be a dominant--if not the
> dominant--player in the server space,
With IBM now spending all their OS/2 money on Linux, and SGI supplying
some decent technology, this is virtually inevitable.
> but Apple will get a big chunk of the
> Unix-based desktop space. Why?
I think they'll have a problem with this. Mac people are the polar
opposite of UNIX people. I have serious doubts that one OS can satisfy
both. Especially since UNIX people will all have to buy new hardware,
since none of them use Macs today.=20
> Larger established userbase,
Well, the established user base for Mac UNIX is all but zero, today. Yes,
it'll grow, as the successor to MacOS 9. And it'll definitely be a
better OS for Mac type things -- it can do the server thing, and it's
hardcore enough for the huge applications that drive desktop publishing,
things that bring classic MacOS or classic Windows to its knees. But
will UNIX people adopt it? I don't think many will.=20
MacOS applications are Mac applications, not generally UNIX applications.
So this isn't likely to get UNIX people excited about ports to MacOS.
It's probably a good deal for companies that would naturally support,
say, Win2K, SGI (IRIX, moving to Linux), and MacOS, anyway. But it's not
the low-level issues that comprise the bulk of the porting work, it's
the GUI stuff. Today, across all platforms, UNIX =3D X (though, of course,
the widget sets vary, sometimes dramatically). For porting purposes,
MacOS X isn't UNIX much more than any POSIX-compliant port would be (eg,
Win2K if you want to use the POSIX layer, QNX, BeOS if you want to use
the POSIX layer, etc).=20
As for userbase, ComputerWorld last fall(?) put MacOS (all versions) at
3.25%, Linux at 4%. That doesn't speak well for a "larger established
userbase", though I suspect they might not have considered educational
use, only corporate.
> better UI,=20
No doubts, the GUI is better. If they put that out for Linux, I'd
probably use it myself, rather than Gnome. But there's nothing, today
anyway, that could even remotely get me interested in spending $2K or so
for a Mac just to run MacOS X.=20
> But Linux supports more CPUs than OS X, so it's perfect for servers.
Pretty much every OS on the planet supports more CPUs than MacOS X,
today. Ok, NT failed on 3 out of 4 of them, but they'll be back up at "2"
once the IA-64 ships (supposedly Real Soon Now, though it seems largely
a non-event for most people).=20
--
Dave Haynie dhaynie@metaboxusa.com http://www.metaboxusa.com=20
Chief Technology Officer, Metabox Corporation
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:11:27 -0700
From: Richard Lin
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: *** CAMERA MANUFACTURERS LISTEN UP ***
Message-ID: <3B17320E.5A1A0C78@3forces.com>
Yep, I thought about lens zoom, but then again, think about it. Your DV footage already records exposure control, focus settings, etc.. in the subcode area. Tracking the lens zoom is just
recording when the zoom control is used and to what degree. Many Sony camera's already have Memory Stick capability, so no problem about recording the data.
Of course another issue is where you put the sensor. Do you track camera tilt? if so, where is the camera's 0,0,0? Is it at it's Center of Gravity or at the lens. Capturing x,y,z of the
camera seems doable, but then if the camera is pointed up or down, or if it's rolled, what then? Just more questions!
Richard Lin
editTRAIN.com
Randy Quimpo wrote:
> Hi again Richard
>
> ...or you can use GPS for your camera's reference points. The pitch and yaw
> of the camera will be tracked by an onboard gyroscope...plus you better add
> functions to track the lens zoom and stuff like that. Oops - no longer a
> simple task, but still doable.
>
> Randy Quimpo
>
> -- (cut off when replying)-----------------
> This list is made possible by Lifetime DV-L Benefactors such as http://www.promax.com, http://www.videoguys.com, http://www.panasonic.com/broadcast and the contributions of its members.
>
> To contribute money: http://www.computervicestore.com/dvl.html
> All about DV-L, to subscribe & unsubscribe: http://www.DVCentral.org/thelist.html
> DV-L archive at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DV-List/messages
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 02:21:15 -0400
From: Dave Haynie
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: Re: storm motherboard and cpu
Message-ID: <20010601020822.96A7.DHAYNIE@jersey.net>
On Tue, 29 May 2001 12:24:58 -0700, "Tyler A. Hawes" jammed all night, and by sunrise was heard saying:
> > There's an
> > implication, at least, that there's a socket pinout change,
> The socket pinout will be identical. Not only is this evident from photos of
> beta boards,
The beta boards (well, the Tyan, anyway) for 760MP initially ran with
Thunderbirds, had to be modified once they could get a Palamino. Their
announcement implies special tricks necessary to "not only support
Palamino". And you cannot judge a CPU's pinout from a photograph. I've
been designing computers for 18 years and can't do that.
> but also from Palaminos that are now shipping for laptops as well
That is also not an indication, since laptop Athlons didn't exist before
the Palamino, due to power issues (Palamino, as well as a design
enhancement, is a technology shrink).
> as AMD vocalizing that Palaminos will be backwards-compatible and work
> on current motherboards.
If they have said that, that would be the only clear indicator on your
list.
> > Thanks. They didn't say the chipset doesn't support non-ECC memory. They
> > said it requires registered DDR-memory modules, which are _currently_
> > available only in ECC, about 10% more expensive than non-ECC modules.
> Right, it does not say it needs to be ECC, just registered. Yes, the links I
> sent you refer to the Tyan board specifically.
Registered modules are fairly standard on server-class systems. The
registers allow pipelined access. The register itself, basically a
latched buffer, has a faster access time than the SDRAM chip itself, so
you pay one extra latency cycle, put addresses out a clock early,
boosting memory bus speed (some workstation/server class systems run
with 200MHz clocked SDRAM, which would be 400MHz data rates with the DDR
type) and/or bus capacity (most consumer PCs handle 3-4 DIMMs, tops,
these days, while server users generally demand multiple GB of RAM
capacity).
> I could not find some other
> links which were commenting on the AMD 762 chipset specifically and quoted
> AMD officials as saying that the 762 chipset is designed for registered
> DIMMs only and that they have no plans to change this "in the near future".
That's reasonable. As I mentioned, for registered memory, your memory
controller (part of the North Bridge chip) has to put memory addresses
out a cycle early for registered memory. You can build a chip that does
both, with a mode register, but there's no mix and match. And if they
didn't intend to support unregistered SDRAM, you'd have to build a
special motherboard design to handle it (which is possible, but not
likely to be done).
> Of course, all things considered, this is purely rumors with some good
> sources behind them. AMD has been very upset about this leaked information,
> and it's always possible that the reason for that is because the specs were
> not finalized yet.
Yup. I did a quick check, but didn't see any chip specs posted on their
site (which would, presumably, resolve the issues).
> I only brought these things up because if people are
> planning on buying single Athlon processor-based systems now and want an
> upgrade path to dual Athlons, they should be aware of these potential
> barriers.
AMD isn't necessarily the only company doing SMP Athlons, either. But
it looks like they're be first, and they'll be going for performance,
which is what they should be doing. They're not planning more than 2-way
SMP for the Athlon, probably due to the fairly large size of the EV6 bus,
as well as the unproven (for AMD) higher-end market. The x86-64 chips,
using HyperTransport rather than EV6, will get 8+ way support from AMD.
--
Dave Haynie dhaynie@metaboxusa.com http://www.metaboxusa.com
Chief Technology Officer, Metabox Corporation
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 00:14:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Douglas White
To: DV-L@dvcentral.org
Subject: DV Decks with XLR interface?
Message-ID: <20010601071426.16971.qmail@web14304.mail.yahoo.com>
Hi,
I've been looking at VTR specs and don't see any
mention of XLR audio interface support on either the
Sony DSR-11 or DSR-30. Do these decks have RCA only?
What DV decks support XLR?
Thanks.
--Doug
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 02:32:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: Vidiot