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Old September 7th, 2006, 07:08 PM   #1
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El papel Team Deadline

We have the sponsorship roster almost full for El Papel and will be announcing the team; cast, crew and sponsors, on September 15th. Anyone else wanting to join the team for part or full-time work, please let me know via private e-mail. There's lots to do on set and location and we want to give the 2nd Unit forum the opportunity. This is not a conventional or general employment offer which is why it's here and not posted in the Helping Hands area (I think that's what it's called here) We have a wonderful following of some great people here thanks to Chris Hurd and his team of people and while 2nd Unit's weekly series is entering Season 2 with some great, powerhouse supporters, "El Papel" is anothert animal all together. Sony, Fujinion, Apple, Adobe, LitePanels, FisherLites, Finn Light, and a couple of other majors we hope to sign before the 15th have put a great deal of faith and hope in us not to mention alot of money so while 2nd Unit is fun and games, El Papel is no game. It'll still be fun because that's one of the perks to this business but make no mistake, El Papel will be a standard production evironment. Let me know if you'd like to lend a hand when the cameras start to roll.
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Old September 7th, 2006, 08:30 PM   #2
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I just saw DA IRY video and I think it is amazing the people who for whatever reason will just pick up everything and lend a hand on this wonderful project.
I myself is just waiting to get a schedule to drive out and give my support.
I also got my second video job for a new tv pilot shooting here in phoenix monday.
It's a one day shoot and pay is double of my first job. Plus Webb the director and producer has an amazing company here www.baselinedigital.com . Also while doing some research here in AZ I came across Ronald Vidor who did handheld and underwater for JAWS. He would be an amazing interview for 2nd unit.
I can't imagine how you feel about the responses you have gotten from this. It must be very gratifing to see so many people wanting to do whatever they can to help on either 2nd unit or the docudrama. And can you imagine the people who can't make it out but want to help in some way. This is what it is all about. Makes me feel good.
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Old September 8th, 2006, 12:28 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Joe Bowey
I just saw DA IRY video and I think it is amazing the people who for whatever reason will just pick up everything and lend a hand on this wonderful project.
Joe.
It is quite an incredible thing what is happening with "2nd Unit". When I joined the crew for the first episode I had no idea of what I was going to get involved with. My target, that fateful Saturday at LitePanels, was to just have another opportunity to practice my camera work and meet some people in the industry. I didn't expect anything else. That night Jonathan told me that he liked what happened that day and that he would like to continue for the whole season in that way. I thought about it, it's a big commitment, 13 weeks, drive to LA from Santa Cruz, but the opportunity was just tremendous. I said "OK". Things just started escalating from there and I can barely believe what happened in 2+ months.
While the monetary compensation is not there, the value of what I learned in 2 short months is just amazing.
From learning how to shoot with 3 cameras, what angles intercut and which ones simply don't, to how to use a Steadycam (thank to the help of Tiffen), to all the opportunities to talk in first person with crew members of famous productions, what Jonathan has provided has simply no value and it should not be surprising that people want to join this initiave.
And what is important to understand is that this is how thousands of individuals have traditionally learned the craft. On the field, working on all sorts of productions, working hard and with little or no pay. You pay your dues because this is the proper way. Trade a sunrise for a sunset. Trade the salary for the knowledge. There is no price for knowledge and for the opportunity to get to know the people that already work in the industry.

Movie-making is just so darn complex that there is not way you can improvise it.

So, as you can see, we do give a lot of our time but we get a lot in return too :)
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Old September 20th, 2006, 09:34 AM   #4
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El Papel Buzz Starting

As many of you know, El Papel started production in earnest on Sept 1st and we've started getting messages from our other forums some of which I'd like to share with you all here. Some are positive and some are negative but the one common thread that runs through them all is compassion. If any of you here on this forum have stories, we'd like to hear the



This is the message:

I just found this thread a few weeks ago so I thought I would share my story with you.

I'm an undocumented alien with an approved immigrant petition (I-130) and a PHD student at a major US university. My parents brought me here from the Pi when I was 4 on some sort of visa (I can't recall) in 1985. We overstayed. A few years later my sister got married to a USC. She petitioned my parents. They got their GCS sometime in 1998. They petitioned me. I've been waiting ever since. I'm 25 now.

Anyway, there are thousands of young adults in a similar situation that have it worse than me (at least I have an approved I-130 and my entire family is legal). But I think any documentary about the Dream Act should concentrate on the psychological effects of being caught in this god awful situation (i.e. feelings of inadequacy, alientation, frustration, guilt, etc). The political implications and bureaucratic details are important but I think the average viewer will respond more to a "human" story. But that's just my 2 cents.

Oh and I'm sure you've heard about the story of Dan-el Padilla (Princeton salutorian and undocumented alien). Have you considered trying to get him involved in your documentary? Here's a link to just one article about him:

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/ar...ews/15457.shtml
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Old September 20th, 2006, 02:22 PM   #5
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Jonathan.
The story described in the message is hardly an exceptions and I hope we'll have the opportunity to show how absolutely "byzantine" the burocracy at INS is. I am a legal alien (I don't have any problem with the term :)) and I was fortunate enough to have a high-tech company pay in the proximity od $15,000 in legal fees for my H1 visa first and then my Green Card. If that number seems astronomical, well, it is but it's also necessary in order to get things done with INS. An H1 visa will cost you around $3000-$5000 in legal fees. A GC more around $10,000. It depends on the lawyer and the speed of the process.
Even with these resources my GC application took about 4.5 years to be processed! And this while I was here as a software engeenir employed and sponsored by a Silicon Valley company with very deep pockets.
When my application was finally approved I had to present myself at the INS office in San Jose. Lines at the office start at about 4:00am. I couldn't bring myself to do that and I went there at about 5:30. At that "late" hour the line was wrapping around the perimeter of the building, overflowing in the parking lot. A seller of hot dogs, and coffe parked his trailer nearby and was doing pretty good business. We stayed in line, in the mud, until the office doors opened at 7:30. Because INS requires to see the children of parents applying for visas, even if they are infants, several couples had to do their best to keep the babys warm and fed, while keeping their place in line.
You might wonder, cound't you go there a little late? No, the INS office opens from Monday to Thursday from 7:30am to 11:30am. I can't put labels to these arrogant bastards without resorting to foul language. Six years later my blood boils just thinking about it. From 7:30 to 11:30. After that, you can go to hell, they don't give a damn. And it did happen, it did happen, don't you believe for a moment that I am exagerating. Because the people in line at 5:30 in the morning were also US citizens. If a foreigner marries a US citizens he/sh gets a GC automatically but the harassment is inflicted on both of them.
So, here I am, cold and wet from the morning fog and the mud, finally the door opens... just to let people get inside and take place to get into another line. This is the "pick a number" line. You pick a number and then sit down for a few hours waiting, hoping that they will call your number and you'll be finally facing a bored burocrat that will tell you that you don't have form xxyyzz with you, get it and come back another day.
I was actually part of the "lucky bunch" because 2 minutes after I sat down holding my precious ticket a voice from the PA announced that they just run out of numbers and so they could not process any more people. Come back another day. Yes, somebody stayed in the mud for a couple o hours, maybe even had to ask for a day off just for nothing. Because they run out of freakin' numbers and they cannot keep the office open just a few,HOURS!. People lives depend on the unwillingness of a office worker to spend more time. 4.5 years it took them to process a perfectly legittimate application, prepared by a lawyer, for a citizen of a friendly country, Italy.
During that period there were endless reports of families forced to relocate to Canada or other countries, families of professionals that even bought houses in the US, they were forced to abandon their jobsm, their friends and their houses, uproot an whole family because their H1 visa expired and INS didn't process their Green Card in time. Fortunately Clinton signed a law in 2001 to allow for visa extension when a GC appliaction is on file.
And this was November 2000, before 9/11/01. I can't even imagine how the situation is now. I was lucky, I made it in only 3 trips to the San Jose office.
The only reason why this kind of abuse is continuing today is because we are non-voters! That's the kernel of the situation. We don't have a voice and the average American is completely unaware of what is the life of the immigrant.

What I described is the life of a lawful, play-by-the-book, immigrant, being an undocumented in this country, today, is simply a nightmare. Being thrown into that nightmare not because of your actions but because of "sins of your fathers" is simply grotesque and, if I may be so bold, un-American.
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Last edited by Paolo Ciccone; September 20th, 2006 at 02:53 PM.
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Old September 21st, 2006, 08:08 AM   #6
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Paolo,

I understand your situation but I differ in opinion to yours.

I'm a American by birth and I married my wife, who is from Korea.

The INS has had issues on the wait line, but I never had it as bad as you.

On several occasions that I have had to go up to get my wife registered as a resident alien and applying for permanant resident status, I was never hassled to the degree that you seemed to have been put under.

Perhaps it's the amount of people appylying at the INS, in your location, that has caused the wait time issue. I had a line as well, it was long as well - out the door to the parkinglot, and the system worked pretty fast.

Now, I've had to close the door on customers as well, and that's with any business. You let the customers who made it in finish up their transactions, but you have to tell the customers that are late to come back the next day. Paperwork has to be filed, employees have to clock out before they break their law in working over 12 hours, etc... Many reasons on why this happens, but it's an inconvience to our customer's for sure.

The INS reps were very professional, the application sent to the main location for approval was sent back requesting further documentation but that was also less of a hassle than expected.
In fact, next to the Postal Service, the INS team (here in Seattle) gets high marks from me. I may be biased about the Postal Service but I've seen no other Government service providers working their hardest to please their customers.

PS, my relationship with the INS was after 9-11.
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Old September 21st, 2006, 09:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone
So, here I am, cold and wet from the morning fog and the mud, finally the door opens... just to let people get inside and take place to get into another line. This is the "pick a number" line. You pick a number and then sit down for a few hours waiting, hoping that they will call your number and you'll be finally facing a bored burocrat that will tell you that you don't have form xxyyzz with you, get it and come back another day.
I was actually part of the "lucky bunch" because 2 minutes after I sat down holding my precious ticket a voice from the PA announced that they just run out of numbers and so they could not process any more people. Come back another day.

been there, done that....my own dealings with the INS while i adopted my daughter are quite similar--the contempt-riddled, petty tyranny is something most US-born US citizens would never tolerate. the things we do for love....
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Old September 21st, 2006, 09:07 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by John Kang
In fact, next to the Postal Service, the INS team (here in Seattle) gets high marks from me. I may be biased about the Postal Service but I've seen no other Government service providers working their hardest to please their customers.
(Smile) (Chuckle) My dad worked for USPS for 25 years (well he still works there) and Iím not saying they donít get the job done but man the crazy stories I would here about the mishandling of loads of mail.

Maybe itís just smoother here in Seattle, I canít speak personally but I have a close friend who married someone from the UK. They hired a lawyer and all that stuff, course I guess itís different since one was born here already, but anyways their process did take some time but it went very smooth.

Paolo, Iím not trying to justify the way the INS handles things, but just think about the thousands and thousands of people they have to deal with. So if a line extends outside the building is this that the INS fault? If it is raining and cold and wet, is that the INS fault? I donít agree with the way the INS handles things, but the truth is if youíre an illegal immigrant your illegal living where you are not supposed to live. Does that make you a bad person, no. But if I walked into my neighbors house and told him I was going to live their, donít you think he would be a little upset? Even if I offered to pay the rent and all his expense, donít you think he would still be a little stand offish? So somewhere along the way a family member broke the law and now that law has to be appeased.

I donít agree with the way the government handles things, but you kinda have to understand there is only so much that they can do. I have another friend who is from Italy. He moved her as a boy with his parents, the only reason why I mention it is because he has a permanent green card. It has no expiration date, I guess the new ones do.
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Old September 21st, 2006, 09:31 AM   #9
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John.

Glad that things went well for you. For what I can see by the reports from other people, the situation is still pretty bad here. I have no objection on the fact that you have to close the doors at some point, the objection is about the threshold. When you have people gathering in front of your door in the middle of the night, you don't work for just 4 days a week, 4 hours in the morning. You change your schedule. Or you hire more people. That's basic respect for people's needs. Because no polical carrer depends on immigrants this is never addressed.
I come from Italy where burocracy is just horrible, at any level. My experience in the US, in more than 12 years, has been wonderful. From the DMV to the IRS, the compentence, speed and convenience of doing many thing via phone is just remarkable. With the exception of INS. That part of the government is truly byzantine. Because people in INS don't work more, families got deported for not fault of their own, but because their lawful application, filed on time, stayed on someone's desk for years. They simply don't care.
It's not a matter of closing a "business" door. When lives depend on your work you keep the doors open until you're done or until you have done as much as possible for the day. From monday to thursday, from 7:30am to 11:30am.
If any other government organization would operate like this there would be a revolution. Because it targets immigrants, nobody gives a damn.

Seattle might be different, here in the Bay Area we probably have more immigrants. From Latinos working in the farms to high-tech workers hired in the tech industry, the flow is very high. Whe I was working for Borland our team was formed by people from all parts of the world: Japan, Sweden, France, Italy, India, China, Germany etc. We heard many stories and they were all bad. Nobody had *any* positive experience with INS. That is 100% failure rate. And that's is for legal immigrants, that was the point of my post. I didn't mean to "highjack" Jonathan's thread for my own purposes. What I wanted to highlight is that people often think that if you want to become a legal alien all you need to do is to apply for a green card. It's not that easy. If you are sponsored by a company, it's an ordeal that will keep a sword hanging over your head for 6-7 years. During all this time, if you loose your job, layoff are very common in here, you have to pack and leave the country in *two weeks*. Do you find a job in two weeks? In another country? When moving all your belongings?
Coming to America is, at the best, an ordeal. Being here illegally must be an experience that molds your personality in ways that I can't imagine. It can be a form of psycological torture. How does that affect the personlity of an otherwise stable, honest kid? I don't know, it would be pretty interesting to see.
I can't wait to start rolling cameras for "El Papel", I hope we will be able to show the true nightmare that is living your life worrying every day that your life can be thrown in the gutter.

OK, I'm gonna step down from my soapbox now :)
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Old September 21st, 2006, 11:05 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Jacob Walker
Paolo, Iím not trying to justify the way the INS handles things, but just think about the thousands and thousands of people they have to deal with. So if a line extends outside the building is this that the INS fault?
Yes. The reason I'm saying so is because people have to get in line at 4:00am because the office doesn't stay open long enough to process the requests. As this is a reality visible by INS everyday, their unwillingness to address it is appalling. It's not that these people are waiting in line to mail a package. They are dealing with their future. The possibility to get or not inside the building is crucial for the their life. If there was line at 4:00am in front of the post office, every day, it would be on the news. Since it's the INS, nobody cares.
After my application was approved, I got my permit to stay in the US but they misplaced my job permit. Yes, the two things, for whatever reason, are separate. I had to stay out of work for a month while some INS burocrat found it between coffe breaks. No pay for a month. Of course rent and child support don't stop. Do they?

Quote:
I donít agree with the way the INS handles things, but the truth is if youíre an illegal immigrant your illegal living where you are not supposed to live.
I agree for the people that came here by choice. But what about the children? They had no choice. It was never their decision. But now they are here and we give them no options. Because that's the matter of this. These children have no options. They cannot go back to their "home country", US is their home country, that's where they grew up, that's home. They cannot work here because they are undocumented. They are stuck in nationality limbo.

Quote:
I donít agree with the way the government handles things, but you kinda have to understand there is only so much that they can do.
I disagree. For what we pay them, for the level of control they exercise on us, they should be more efficient and more compassionate. We should be able to hold the government to the same high standards that they hold us. The government should be at the service of the people, right now it's becoming more and more an oppressive presence that many people, honest, tax paying residents, fear.
I's not the role of the governament to rule how people behave in the privacy of their homes. When Congress wastes time in pointless discusssions about constitutional changes and they don't address the immigration issue, yes, I believe that they could do more. I don't want to get into a political debate here but you just have to read the news to see that the priorities of Congress are messed up. There are a few things that the government is supposed to do. It's not supposed to protect me from myself. It's not supposed to regulate my sex life. It's not supposed to waste time in chosing state birds or songs. I's not supposed to spend weeks talking about Janet Jackson boob.
It has to provide protection for its residents, inside and outside. It has to establish what is lawful and unlawful. It has to provide health care for us. We are the only western nation without healt care. The only one. Greece has it and I'm not sure, but Albania has it too. The biggest superpower in the world has more than 40 million people without basic heath care. The Government has to take care of the immigrants. For this nation, which was built by immigrants, it is pretty damn important. Janet Jackson and video games had more coverage, in the last years, than the immigration issues. So, forgive me for not sympathizing with them. When the governament will start doing its job, then I'll feel more understanding.
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Old September 21st, 2006, 12:31 PM   #11
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Paolo just so you understand Iím not hostile to immigration or immigrants but I do like to discuss and think things out.

My statement about the ďgovernment can only do so muchĒ was targeted at the issue of immigration. Trust me the government is daily stripping people of their rights instead of establishing true justice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone
So, forgive me for not sympathizing with them. When the governament will start doing its job, then I'll feel more understanding.
The truth is the government will never ďstartĒ doing their job because they are to far corrupt as is. Its all about money. Money makes the world go around, everyone from politics, to news media, to the person that sits at home and ignores the rest of the world, all do it to be comfortable with whatever size money pot they have.

I agree I donít want this to turn into some political debate forever, I understand where your coming from as far as the children now are in limbo land. Even the people in government positions who do care, because the laws are so corrupt and ridicules, it is extremely hard to serve true justice. Even for a judge or a person in the INS office to say ďlook we need to do somethingĒ the corrupt laws or rules have already been set down that says they canít. Does his justify the government from doing something about it? No, my only point is donít blame the hundreds of employees who work at INS desks because they are powerless to change things. You may think well why donít they quit their jobs cause they are not helping anything, and thatís true. If a person really cares they wouldnít be working there.

I wish you the best of luck on the movie you will be shooting Paolo, real world issues like these are what I think make the best movies.
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Old September 21st, 2006, 02:00 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Jacob Walker
Paolo just so you understand Iím not hostile to immigration or immigrants but I do like to discuss and think things out.
Never thought you were. My beliefe in this is that we have just too many misconceptions, lack of real information (don't get me started with the media :)) and apathy from the government.

And I understand that the people in the offices are powerless. But they can talk. They can get their job done more efficiently. It's the impression of pretty much anybody who had to deal with INS that the people there don't "try too hard". You know, government job, mark your time card, that's it.

Anyway, didn't really mean to step on a soapbox, I just get passionate about it.

Take care.
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Old September 21st, 2006, 04:10 PM   #13
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And we'll be right back with more from Jaime Spriger after a word from our sponsors!
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Old September 22nd, 2006, 09:15 AM   #14
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Brought to you by, The Letters I, N, & S and the colors Red, White, & Blue.
Flashback to Sesame Street.

Getting back on topic, how about a docu on INS and aliens after "My Diploma: Your next boss." otherwise know as El Papel

Diploma waits over the border...

Another interesting news about a 18 year old graduating from U-VA with a double major in one year. Anyone read it? He did it for $200 dollars and made a profit from selling the text books.

Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...091901779.html
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Old September 25th, 2006, 04:46 AM   #15
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Important subject! I'm native born but America's strength is getting the best people from other places. I wish the INS would get with the program...
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