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Old April 26th, 2016, 02:12 AM   #16
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

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Originally Posted by Jim Michael View Post
It will be interesting to see what creative people can do with wedding VR other than a 2D film shot in 360.
It was also interesting to see what creative weddingvideographers would do with 3d and yet, in my country at least, it never took off, even when the market was saturated with 3d tv's. I actually see 3D as a much better option to enhance a weddingvideo of giving people the feeling they are "there", you can use higher end camera's, you still get to choose your shots, frame it in a way helps the viewer to relate to whatever you are trying to tell.

360vr however where the viewer can swipe their phone to look around, well, first of all it's the investment that needs to be made and second I don't see any of the current options work well in low light conditions like candle lit only venues and if you ever have shot any wedding, you know how important a camera low light performance is. Although I too would be interested to see any videographers attempt to make something out of it, I am almost certain it will be just a fad, just like that weddingvideo I saw a while back shot on iphones only, looks cool but only for a while. For uses in sport however, especially extreme sports I"m sure these devices will sell like hot cakes.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 02:53 PM   #17
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

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It was also interesting to see what creative weddingvideographers would do with 3d and yet, in my country at least, it never took off, even when the market was saturated with 3d tv's. I actually see 3D as a much better option to enhance a weddingvideo of giving people the feeling they are "there", you can use higher end camera's, you still get to choose your shots, frame it in a way helps the viewer to relate to whatever you are trying to tell.

360vr however where the viewer can swipe their phone to look around, well, first of all it's the investment that needs to be made and second I don't see any of the current options work well in low light conditions like candle lit only venues and if you ever have shot any wedding, you know how important a camera low light performance is. Although I too would be interested to see any videographers attempt to make something out of it, I am almost certain it will be just a fad, just like that weddingvideo I saw a while back shot on iphones only, looks cool but only for a while. For uses in sport however, especially extreme sports I"m sure these devices will sell like hot cakes.
I am confused. It is 3D that requires expensive investment by both your clients to view (glasses, special TV's) and by the videographer - what "high-end" 3D camera exactly do you have in mind? The need for special equipment that was uncomfortable is precisely why it failed, apart from the fact that most videographers do not fully understand how to shoot 3D. Shooting 3D that is good is very difficult.

Viewing 360 requires no investments by clients, if they have a smartphone or computer (what clients do you have that do not?). 360 video is a supplement to the artistic shots, not a replacement. It's a gimmick, a fun novelty - but such things sell. And the expertise needed to use by the videographer is far less than that needed to make effective 3D video. Indeed, it is also not taxing, since it can be set up in one place turned on and just left for a period of time.

Example: At the ceremony the 360 camera is in the middle of the church (a better-lit venue than the hokey lit after-parties). The bride and groom can then see afterward not only their actions at the altar (from the back) but also the live reactions (or not) of all of their guests during the ceremony, focusing on whomever they want to look at. Enjoying many viewings because there are so many new things to look at and notice each time. Much better than setting up a GoPro, which would give them a lower-quality distorted (fisheye) view.

No way that threatens the artistic video that is also supplied. If you say, and for $xx more, I can supply a 360 video of the ceremony, you might very well get a lot of yeses. It also insures that nothing gets missed (in the mind of the client), and is a lot more fun and immersive than a GoPro that many videographers employ. No one would want the 360 video instead of your artistic version; it's a bonus to offer that is not very costly to produce. It will be seen on a cellphone screen, so it does not have to meet the quality standards of your normal videos, and they would not expect it to.

I also cannot see how 360 video is useful for sports, unless the camera is put in the middle of the field. It is most practically useful for wide scenics, so you can look around at them just like in real life, and that are hard to capture with any lens that is not distorted fisheye or by nauseating panning. 360 videos give you wide vistas without distortion, and immerses the viewer in that environment.

I agree low light is a challenge, but maybe for ceremonies this is not a big challenge.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 04:01 PM   #18
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

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It is 3D that requires expensive investment by both your clients to view (glasses, special TV's)
3d tv are not "special", there was a point where about every tv in store was "3d" ready so the possibility is that many have a 3d tv which they either never use for 3d or maybe hired a film once to see what it is about but most just use it as a regular tv. Even I have a 3d ready tv that never has been used for viewing 3d, it was just a cheap but good model on sales that showed good "2d".

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what "high-end" 3D camera exactly do you have in mind?
I never followed 3d cameras because it did not interest me at all, but a quick google showed something like this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/i..._3D_865849.jpg and while it's overkill for a wedding I take it that the same kind of solutions exist for other cheaper but still "high end" camera's, like a dvx200 type of camera.

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The need for special equipment that was uncomfortable is precisely why it failed
I never was a fan of 3D but my point is that if I had to choose, a wedding shot in 3d would for me be a better experience then a 360vr wedding regardless of the fact what investments need to be made. And speaking of investments, those gopro 360vr solutions also cost an arm and a leg if you want the good stuff.

Quote:
Example: At the ceremony the 360 camera is in the middle of the church
The camera in the middle of the church will get the most boring view ever imaginable, you pick one spot and you can look around for an hour, well, wow....not. :)

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If you say, and for $xx more, I can supply a 360 video of the ceremony, you might very well get a lot of yeses.
I don't believe in that, sure there always will be people with enough money thinking, why not, look at it once and then never again because it doesn't make any compelling video, just boring one point of view look around shot that makes you fall asleep after a minute of watching a ceremony, the only 360vr I will ever be viewing is when someone who performs extreme sports attaches it to their helmet, there I do see the advantage.

Sorry, you can't convince me, maybe I"m too old to be hip and to understand these kind of fads, when applied to weddings. 360vr has many advantages for specific applications like mentioned before (extreme sports, or when you sell houses etc) but weddings don't fall into that same category if you ask me but I"m probably wrong, who knows :)
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Old April 26th, 2016, 04:26 PM   #19
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

Found one! :)
I have all the respect for the videographer for doing this so no bad word about his effort but common, it's incredible soft, at the ceremony I can't see any reaction of anyone, I get a boring wide angle overview so you see everything and nothing, there are some very boring point of views in there, the bridesmaids sitting on the ceremony chairs looking at the bride while she is doing a photoshoot and I had to look around to see what was going on, what was the benefit in that? The groom talking to the camera about his bride, you know what I was looking at? Right, what was behind the camera, I wasn't listening to what he was saying at all, I was on a merry go round enjoying the back view and being totally distracted from what really mattered.

The only thing I thought looked cool was when the bridesmaids where standing around the camera and talking to it in turns so you could follow them but ofcourse you could get distracted by that one standing on the opposite side that was not speaking at that moment but who had the biggest boobs.



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Old April 26th, 2016, 05:04 PM   #20
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

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Found one! :)
I have all the respect for the videographer for doing this so no bad word about his effort but common, it's incredible soft
Given the shadow of the device, I think it was shot with the Theta S, and so it is not surprising it is very soft not to mention having bad color. I would be embarrassed to give that video to anyone, let alone someone who paid.

I appreciate your reaction, given you are a real professional who shoots great video and is also on top of technical developments. I would only worry that your interest in a 360 video is not the point - it is the clients'. Even if its a fad, it is not a big investment for the videographer (although using a Theta S is not a good idea to save costs). I also get that having a quality standard is important. There are wedding photographers who use GoPros...
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Old April 27th, 2016, 01:44 AM   #21
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
The camera in the middle of the church will get the most boring view ever imaginable, you pick one spot and you can look around for an hour, well, wow....not. :)
It doesn't all have to be 'ART' there is plenty of room for documentation too. People love the crappy out of focus snapshots or shaky video footage of their kids & pets. I can see people viewing the wedding years later & scrolling round the church looking at all the guests seeing new things each time when watching people who might be long dead. My only concern would be standards & the ability to still view the 360 VR video in 30 years time.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 01:48 AM   #22
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

To me the Kodak 360 version is unacceptable soft in the youtube version for any paid work and not sure if the gopro versions are any better? I only see it being used as a standalone paid option at a wedding, so still filming with normal camera's and edit and deliver as normal but give the option of a 360deg field of view at the ceremony, whoever wants to watch around a full hour ceremony from a fixed position is another question, it just doesn't add anything that would be worth paying for.

I sooner see guests taking such a thing with them to get fun shots, I already see gopro or smartphones on sticks at about every wedding I shoot.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 01:56 AM   #23
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

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I can see people viewing the wedding years later & scrolling round the church looking at all the guests seeing new things each time when watching people who might be long dead.
That's just it, you can't see anything, most of the time it's blurry soft very wide field of view from one location. You will get much better coverage from a normal camera.

Quote:
People love the crappy out of focus snapshots or shaky video footage of their kids & pets
Yeah, but sell it like that to your clients? That's why I think it will serve a better purpose if one of the guests has such a thing with them at the wedding to dance around it when they are drunk. But as a guest reaction camera it might do fine.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 11:35 AM   #24
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

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To me the Kodak 360 version is unacceptable soft in the youtube version for any paid work and not sure if the gopro versions are any better? I only see it being used as a standalone paid option at a wedding, so still filming with normal camera's and edit and deliver as normal but give the option of a 360deg field of view at the ceremony, whoever wants to watch around a full hour ceremony from a fixed position is another question, . it just doesn't add anything that would be worth paying for
If you view the 360 VR video on a cellphone or using VR goggles (which is what the purpose is), the sharpness is much less of an issue.

Yes, certainly an add-on option. But your conclusion "it just doesn't add anything that would be worth paying for." is not based on anything but your own guess (and maybe own preferences). There are no facts about demand for this completely new product. What counts is what your clients would like. You can "warn" them about how the video is best viewed on... They can refuse, or they can try it because it's the new thing and it is fun.

Btw, 3D videos are also very compromised in terms of resolution using any practical 3D camera. neither lens produces 4K, and often the video is sbs with half HD resolution. People do not notice because of the added dimension of depth. They don't notice window violations either, that real 3D videographers are obsessed about. It's the same for 360 VR - they don't expect high resolution, which is certainly not the only characteristic that matters for video. And it will make your "real" video look even better :).

I have found more "professional" wedding videos shot with 360 cameras posted on Youtube. One guy hung a single Kodak 360 4K from the ceiling with the lens pointed down. I don't know how they process their videos; the softness may be the result of bad processing too. The Kodak stitching software will stitch the individual pairs of clips at a high bitrate and then merge the 360 videos produced *without recompression."
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Old April 27th, 2016, 01:26 PM   #25
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

do you need a special app to view this on a phone? On my windows phone I can't look around, I just get the entire fixed frame.

I just looked at more 360vr weddings on my pc and they all look horribly soft and boring, if this ever is going to succeed for weddings the resolution needs to be a lot better plus if you could zoom in without resolution loss, like you can do with 4K in a 1080p project, only then it will be more interesting because the ultrawide shots you have now show nothing in detail if placed in a large room, you just experience everything from a to far distance and everyone is almost unrecognizable.

I also found one wedding where the photog had it mounted on her dslr and walked around with it, it was fun to see who was shooting the clip because I could look back right into her face, the last thing I want my clients to see :)
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Old April 27th, 2016, 04:47 PM   #26
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

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Originally Posted by Jim Michael View Post
Hey Noa, I believe you have to think differently to produce VR. Your palette is a sphere rather than a 2D rectangle and you are free to direct (or misdirect) the viewers attention where you want. I see a lot of possibilities to produce things you have to watch multiple times to take in everything that is happening, particularly where important things to a story occur.
For me (as a millennial), I'm really excited about seeing things that I've never been able to see before. I just watched the Coachella video and my favorite part was being able to see the artists up close while also being able to see what the audience looks from the artist's point of view. Check it out:

So I found an even cooler story--> 69: A virtual experience of solitary confinement | World news | The Guardian

Last edited by Yasmeen Kashef; April 27th, 2016 at 08:47 PM. Reason: Wanted to include an example that I just found.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 06:37 PM   #27
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

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do you need a special app to view this on a phone? On my windows phone I can't look around, I just get the entire fixed frame.
You need to view using the YouTube app. And only the YouTube version of the video works as VR. As you know, you have to also choose the resolution (HD or 4K); the default for VR seems always the worst.

There are plenty of lousy soft videos from regular cameras. I can only vouch for my campus 360 tour test video (not because of its art) as maximizing the potential resolution at every step (actually it could be better as the Kodak stitching software now permits merging 360 clips without re-compression - my YouTube version was put together using PD14, which recompressed and also slightly changed the resolution).
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Old April 27th, 2016, 07:05 PM   #28
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

Would this work for YouTube VR video on Windows phones? InMind VR brings virtual reality to Windows Phone, with the help of Google Cardboard - WMPoweruser
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Old April 28th, 2016, 02:33 AM   #29
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

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You need to view using the YouTube app. And only the YouTube version of the video works as VR.
Can you post a link to that? I can only find paying options for 360vr on a windows phone.
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Old April 28th, 2016, 07:24 AM   #30
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Re: 360 VR for Most of Us

It doesn't look like there's an official YouTube app on the Windows phone. At the very least, you can pan around the video via the desktop by clicking and dragging.

Why don't the big boys (Google and Microsoft) play well together?
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