Frame Packing Demo Disc at DVinfo.net

Pavel Houda · May 5th, 2010, 05:28 PM

I need to find somewhere or generate a Blu-ray demo/test disc. Could anyone suggest either where to get such disc or what S/W to use to generate one? Thanks....

Adam Stanislav · May 5th, 2010, 07:48 PM

Personally, I use Sony Vegas, which comes with DVD Architect, which in turn can make Blu-ray discs. Of course, you need a Blu-ray burner. I got mine from Videoguys who are sponsors of this forum and who had (and often do) a nice package deal where they sold me the burner with Sony Vegas (and some training materials) for just the price of Sony Vegas. So, effectively I got a free Blu-ray burner from them.

I also ordered an external enclosure which allows me to connect the burner to either of my two computers with USB.

And they even gave me a discount for being a member of this forum.

Tim Dashwood · May 5th, 2010, 10:40 PM

Final Cut Studio 3 has Blu-Ray support built-in, but it is very simple and really only suited to demo discs. Adobe also has Encore, which I have played with in the past.

Most Blu-Ray burners on the market are supported by the Mac OS even though they may not say so in their specs. Just google the model number with "Mac" to check other's experiences before you buy.

Pavel Houda · May 6th, 2010, 12:11 AM

Thank you guys, I can burn Blu-ray discs with Toast. It is frame packed 3D that I need to get or generate. I can get side-by-side really well with the Stereo3D Toolbox, I have problems with "above/below", and have no clue how to generate frame packed stream. Blu-ray is just mentioned because of the players I have available and because I need 1920:1080 streams. Any suggestion is appreciated.

Adam Stanislav · May 6th, 2010, 07:06 AM

Well, I have been scratching my head about the frame packing ever since I read the HDMI 3D specification. For the above/below, are you supposed to create a 1920x2205 pixel frame with 45 blank lines in the middle? That is the impression I get from the spec, but I am not sure.

But just because that is the 3D HDMI specification does not necessarily mean that is how the files should be created for 3D Blu-ray. I do not know. Any clarification would be nice. Because if I knew how it is supposed to work, programming it would make it much easier.

Steve LaPierre · May 10th, 2010, 07:20 AM

I hope this thread gets a lot of good responses since this subject is unclear to me and a demo disc with different formats on it would be nice. From what I am understanding the standard 2D version of a video must exist on the Blu-ray just for backwards compatibility, and I am assuming the other eye view exists as well. When the Blu-ray player is commanded to play in 3D it would assemble the frames in a proper 1.4 format and apparently all 3DTVs can work with any of the several formats that the 1.4 can encapsulate. My use of terms is probably a bit off, and certainly there are some members here that must understand the intricaies of a 3D Blu-ray content and will share their knowledge.

Pavel Houda · May 14th, 2010, 11:16 AM

I understand that blu-ray 3D HD will only be distributed in frame-packing format, so right now only the demo discs distributed with 3D hardware are the source of frame-packed 3D video. To my knowledge no commercial disc has been released yet.

Adam Stanislav · May 15th, 2010, 12:07 AM

Thanks, Pavle. So next time I get a chance to work on Bororo 3D (I am working on something else now, so it is hard to switch back to it), I will add the option of compositing packed frames, though it will be somewhat of a hack unless I can figure out how to change the frame size from within a plug-in (Sony's plug-in documentation is very outdated, almost as if they did not want people to make their software more attractive to prospective customers).

Pavel Houda · May 15th, 2010, 08:20 AM

That would be outstanding. That would also make Bororo quite unique. Please post when you get the chance to implement it. Thank you for considering it.

Steve Shovlar · June 3rd, 2010, 01:49 PM

OK I just slapped down a deposit on the 50 inch Panasonic 3D TV and will pick it up next week together with the Panasonic 3d Blu-ray player.

So now the fun begins. How do I burn a 3D Blu-Ray dvd? I have the footage on the mac. I can view the footage on my PC through nVidia shutter glasses onto a 24 inch Alienware 3D monitor. Buut how do I get this onto a Blu-ray dvd to show at exhibitions?

Mac based. Use a LG Blu-ray burner which works perfectly.

Pavel Houda · June 3rd, 2010, 03:47 PM

I am not sure about it with the Panasonic TV, but I see no reason why it would not play side-by-side or over/under streams, since it has to be able to do that for broadcast anyway. Other brands can do it. The 3D BD player might refuse to play anything but frame-packed streams in 3D, but it will not know what the other types of streams are in 2D, so if the TV can be set for the other methods, you should have no problem, except for reduced resolution. I needed the frame packed stream for a particular test, because that is what Blu-ray is (will be) using to get the max resolution from 3D discs. Otherwise get your streams to a PC, convert the formats and try Adam's scripts ( http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/3d-stere...-avisynth.html ). I burn my BDs with Toast on Mac and Vegas on PCs. Of course you would have to control the TV manually, because I don't know how to add the necessary stream headers on the BD to make the in-format switching automatic.

Adam Stanislav · June 3rd, 2010, 05:33 PM

Pavle, I do not own the Mac, so I may be totally off here. But I was under the impression that the MacOS was essentially a custom version of FreeBSD. If so, could you run AviSynth on the Mac under Wine?

Pavel Houda · June 3rd, 2010, 06:07 PM

Ahoj Adame. It should be also possible. With Intel Mac and bootcamp, one can install windows and all should run as well. The H/W architectures of those machines are not very different, but I just use two computers, so that I have less subtle compatibilities do fight. I have the H/W anyway. The problem is that the h.264 or aic or whatever in .mov container still have to be converted to some .avi file for Windows to deal with it, but AviSynth probably has some scripts for that as well, there seems to be a lot of good scripts for it.

Adam Stanislav · June 3rd, 2010, 09:51 PM

I meant as a possible solution for Steve since he has the footage on a Mac. Though I have now re-read his message and see that he has a PC as well. In that case it is probably best to just use the PC for AviSynth.

Steve Shovlar · June 5th, 2010, 04:11 AM

Hi Adam, I took a look at what you had written and thanks for doing it but to me it is gibberish and way above my head. I have no idea what all that stuff you wrote means sorry to say!

All I want to do is make a 3d Blu ray DVD.
Stage 1. Do this.
Stage 2. Do that.
Stage 3. Tweak this
Stage
Stage.....
Final stage. Press that and burn 3D Blu Ray DVD.

May 5th, 2010, 05:28 PM	#1
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	Frame Packing Demo Disc I need to find somewhere or generate a Blu-ray demo/test disc. Could anyone suggest either where to get such disc or what S/W to use to generate one? Thanks....

May 5th, 2010, 10:40 PM	#3
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Final Cut Studio 3 has Blu-Ray support built-in, but it is very simple and really only suited to demo discs. Adobe also has Encore, which I have played with in the past. Most Blu-Ray burners on the market are supported by the Mac OS even though they may not say so in their specs. Just google the model number with "Mac" to check other's experiences before you buy. __________________ Tim Dashwood

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May 5th, 2010, 07:48 PM	#2
Adam Stanislav Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 1,258	Personally, I use Sony Vegas, which comes with DVD Architect, which in turn can make Blu-ray discs. Of course, you need a Blu-ray burner. I got mine from Videoguys who are sponsors of this forum and who had (and often do) a nice package deal where they sold me the burner with Sony Vegas (and some training materials) for just the price of Sony Vegas. So, effectively I got a free Blu-ray burner from them. I also ordered an external enclosure which allows me to connect the burner to either of my two computers with USB. And they even gave me a discount for being a member of this forum.

May 6th, 2010, 12:11 AM	#4
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	Thank you guys, I can burn Blu-ray discs with Toast. It is frame packed 3D that I need to get or generate. I can get side-by-side really well with the Stereo3D Toolbox, I have problems with "above/below", and have no clue how to generate frame packed stream. Blu-ray is just mentioned because of the players I have available and because I need 1920:1080 streams. Any suggestion is appreciated.

May 6th, 2010, 07:06 AM	#5
Adam Stanislav Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 1,258	Well, I have been scratching my head about the frame packing ever since I read the HDMI 3D specification. For the above/below, are you supposed to create a 1920x2205 pixel frame with 45 blank lines in the middle? That is the impression I get from the spec, but I am not sure. But just because that is the 3D HDMI specification does not necessarily mean that is how the files should be created for 3D Blu-ray. I do not know. Any clarification would be nice. Because if I knew how it is supposed to work, programming it would make it much easier.

May 10th, 2010, 07:20 AM	#6
Steve LaPierre Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 46	I hope this thread gets a lot of good responses since this subject is unclear to me and a demo disc with different formats on it would be nice. From what I am understanding the standard 2D version of a video must exist on the Blu-ray just for backwards compatibility, and I am assuming the other eye view exists as well. When the Blu-ray player is commanded to play in 3D it would assemble the frames in a proper 1.4 format and apparently all 3DTVs can work with any of the several formats that the 1.4 can encapsulate. My use of terms is probably a bit off, and certainly there are some members here that must understand the intricaies of a 3D Blu-ray content and will share their knowledge.

May 14th, 2010, 11:16 AM	#7
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	I understand that blu-ray 3D HD will only be distributed in frame-packing format, so right now only the demo discs distributed with 3D hardware are the source of frame-packed 3D video. To my knowledge no commercial disc has been released yet.

May 15th, 2010, 12:07 AM	#8
Adam Stanislav Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 1,258	Thanks, Pavle. So next time I get a chance to work on Bororo 3D (I am working on something else now, so it is hard to switch back to it), I will add the option of compositing packed frames, though it will be somewhat of a hack unless I can figure out how to change the frame size from within a plug-in (Sony's plug-in documentation is very outdated, almost as if they did not want people to make their software more attractive to prospective customers).

May 15th, 2010, 08:20 AM	#9
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	That would be outstanding. That would also make Bororo quite unique. Please post when you get the chance to implement it. Thank you for considering it.

June 3rd, 2010, 01:49 PM	#10
Steve Shovlar Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dorset UK Posts: 697	OK I just slapped down a deposit on the 50 inch Panasonic 3D TV and will pick it up next week together with the Panasonic 3d Blu-ray player. So now the fun begins. How do I burn a 3D Blu-Ray dvd? I have the footage on the mac. I can view the footage on my PC through nVidia shutter glasses onto a 24 inch Alienware 3D monitor. Buut how do I get this onto a Blu-ray dvd to show at exhibitions? Mac based. Use a LG Blu-ray burner which works perfectly.

June 3rd, 2010, 03:47 PM	#11
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	I am not sure about it with the Panasonic TV, but I see no reason why it would not play side-by-side or over/under streams, since it has to be able to do that for broadcast anyway. Other brands can do it. The 3D BD player might refuse to play anything but frame-packed streams in 3D, but it will not know what the other types of streams are in 2D, so if the TV can be set for the other methods, you should have no problem, except for reduced resolution. I needed the frame packed stream for a particular test, because that is what Blu-ray is (will be) using to get the max resolution from 3D discs. Otherwise get your streams to a PC, convert the formats and try Adam's scripts ( http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/3d-stere...-avisynth.html ). I burn my BDs with Toast on Mac and Vegas on PCs. Of course you would have to control the TV manually, because I don't know how to add the necessary stream headers on the BD to make the in-format switching automatic.

June 3rd, 2010, 05:33 PM	#12
Adam Stanislav Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 1,258	Pavle, I do not own the Mac, so I may be totally off here. But I was under the impression that the MacOS was essentially a custom version of FreeBSD. If so, could you run AviSynth on the Mac under Wine?

June 3rd, 2010, 06:07 PM	#13
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	Ahoj Adame. It should be also possible. With Intel Mac and bootcamp, one can install windows and all should run as well. The H/W architectures of those machines are not very different, but I just use two computers, so that I have less subtle compatibilities do fight. I have the H/W anyway. The problem is that the h.264 or aic or whatever in .mov container still have to be converted to some .avi file for Windows to deal with it, but AviSynth probably has some scripts for that as well, there seems to be a lot of good scripts for it.

June 3rd, 2010, 09:51 PM	#14
Adam Stanislav Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 1,258	I meant as a possible solution for Steve since he has the footage on a Mac. Though I have now re-read his message and see that he has a PC as well. In that case it is probably best to just use the PC for AviSynth.

June 5th, 2010, 04:11 AM	#15
Steve Shovlar Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dorset UK Posts: 697	Hi Adam, I took a look at what you had written and thanks for doing it but to me it is gibberish and way above my head. I have no idea what all that stuff you wrote means sorry to say! All I want to do is make a 3d Blu ray DVD. Stage 1. Do this. Stage 2. Do that. Stage 3. Tweak this Stage Stage..... Final stage. Press that and burn 3D Blu Ray DVD.