zoom vs variable interaxial

Pavel Houda · February 9th, 2011, 03:00 PM

This, ironically, would help with the vergence-accomodation problem. Once you correct your vision with eyewear to focus to the screen, you are not re-focusing with convergence. At least it sounds like it.

Pavel Houda · February 11th, 2011, 02:58 PM

I did an experiment on zooming a long time ago, when I was really starting with learning about all the 3D pitfalls, and this is what I got: YouTube - 3d: Early 3D Zoom Sync Tests . I didn't bother with any precision alignment, just eyeballing it. It is not good enough, specially if you start looking at it on 100" or so screen TVs. I was also good (and still am) at window violations. This is here to make the masters feel good ;-)

Frank Stearns · February 11th, 2011, 03:30 PM

Thanks for the YouTube link, Pavel.
I watched it in checkerboard mode on my desktop monitor and it was fun to look at.
All I have been able to do so far is zoom in small increments and adjust the toe in during the incremental pause in order to keep everything behind the screen. I am not able to synchronize the zoom with the toe in yet.
Also, my current setup only toes in the right camera. My new design uses one servo to toe in both at the same time.

Adam Stanislav · February 11th, 2011, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavel Houda

I did an experiment on zooming a long time ago

It looked good with my nVidia glasses (with the exception of the vase or whatever it was at the right edge :-) ).

By the way, who was the singer? He sounds familiar but I cannot figure out who it was. Reminds me of Neckář but was much better than him.

Pavel Houda · February 12th, 2011, 01:09 AM

Thanks Adam. I completely forgot about the pitcher, sitting on the table, but I didn't want to process it out. The singer is Pavel Novak, was part of a band called Synkopa - music of my youth. He was very popular at one time (~1967), but unfortunately flamed out fast.

Adam Stanislav · February 12th, 2011, 03:25 AM

Thanks. Unfortunately, I do not recognize his name, even though that was my youth as well. But he is good.

Yes, the pitcher was a textbook example of what not to do. :) It was seen by one eye several times, while the other eye either saw just a small piece of it, or even none of it. That made it look transparent. And it was confusing because it was impossible to decide where in the 3D space it was.

Of course it does not matter in your video because you were experimenting and the whole point of experimenting is to see what works and what does not. Your zooms certainly looked very nice as far as 3D is concerned.

Frank Stearns · February 16th, 2011, 07:49 PM

I am starting to see that dual camcorders have a serious defect which is lack of optical stabilizer lock.
Not sure if there is a solution.

Pavel Houda · February 16th, 2011, 11:13 PM

Yes, Alister talked about it on this forum in the past. I don't know how to lock the system either. Does anyone have a suggestion?

Alister Chapman · February 18th, 2011, 03:57 AM

When the OIS is off on most camcorders it doesn't move about unless you shock the camera. What can happen though is that when you cycle the power the position of the stabiliser may change and you will often get a different position on the horizontal camera compared to the vertical on a beam splitter. This can normally be adjusted out on the rig.

Pavel Houda · February 18th, 2011, 09:28 AM

What about if you zoom in and back, will that effect the floating stabilizing element, or will it stay put?

Pavel Houda · February 20th, 2011, 11:03 AM

Frank, I just saw a footage here: YouTube - 3d walk yushimatenjin ( 3D?? ???? ) , which had a lot of zooming in it, and looked very nice. I asked the author, and he said that it was captured with the new JVC camera (GS-TD1), which was recently released in Japan. This is definitely way better for my needs, when taking closer shots, than my current rig. Zooming seems flawless, stabilized... I am impressed. I saw the camera but never any footage from it, until now. The depth bracket doesn't go too far, so it would be a good compliment with my current rig, that can be spaced wider with no problems. Both would be still lighter than mirror rigs.

Steve LaPierre · February 21st, 2011, 03:02 PM

Pavel the video was impressive showing the camera's ability to zoom, etc. It appeared to be an edited clip since it jumped from scene to scene so does this imply it records in a more usable format for editing than the Sony 3D camera? I haven't found anything showing the file format, and the JVC page only said you could edit the 3D still images. One other thing that seemed like a good feature was time lapse 3D, that could open up some more uses for 3D IMO.

Pavel Houda · February 21st, 2011, 07:05 PM

The streams are encoded in MVC format, which is basically the same as the Sony. There are several "profiles" to all these formats, so it is hard to say whether they are exactly the same, but most likely they are. The problem I had with the Sony was that the rep told me that you cannot read the stream out of the camcorder, and it has fairly huge on board storage, but they should be able to output the stream over the USB port, so I don't know how to interpret that statement. I heard that more than once. Of course anything recorded on the removable media should be readable, so hopefully they don't scramble the data somehow. It is my understanding that the Sony Vegas Pro either can now, or soon, will be able to edit the MVC stream. There are some converters available that can unwind MVC to dual AVC streams, and other formats. Of course once you demux the stream, just about any editor should be able to handle it. The beauty is that everything is nicely aligned in time and space. I spend a long time to do that with my footage.

Alister Chapman · February 27th, 2011, 09:34 AM

Sony Vegas 10 will edit most MVC formats.

I have been playing with a pair of Canon XF105's on my mirror rig and with the 105's you can use the optical image stabiliser to compensate for lens axis shifts. It's very clever and takes only a couple of minutes to calibrate the cameras using the built in routine. Once both cameras were set I was able to do sync zooms that tracked very well using the IR remote. Very impressive.

Pavel Houda · February 27th, 2011, 02:54 PM

That is great news on both counts.

BTW., I have been watching some new YouTube contributions from the new JVC camcorder, and I have mixed feelings about the new batch of narrow stereobase camcorders. They will certainly be lot more error proof than current amateur "rigs", and useful for closeups, but as would make sense, the 3D bracket is very small and the videos are "cardboardy". Good for close shots, but the 3D becomes 2D very quickly. I'd love very portable down mirror rig...

February 16th, 2011, 11:13 PM	#23
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	Yes, Alister talked about it on this forum in the past. I don't know how to lock the system either. Does anyone have a suggestion? Last edited by Pavel Houda; February 17th, 2011 at 01:08 AM.

February 18th, 2011, 03:57 AM	#24
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	When the OIS is off on most camcorders it doesn't move about unless you shock the camera. What can happen though is that when you cycle the power the position of the stabiliser may change and you will often get a different position on the horizontal camera compared to the vertical on a beam splitter. This can normally be adjusted out on the rig. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

February 21st, 2011, 03:02 PM	#27
Steve LaPierre Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 46	Re: zoom vs variable interaxial Pavel the video was impressive showing the camera's ability to zoom, etc. It appeared to be an edited clip since it jumped from scene to scene so does this imply it records in a more usable format for editing than the Sony 3D camera? I haven't found anything showing the file format, and the JVC page only said you could edit the 3D still images. One other thing that seemed like a good feature was time lapse 3D, that could open up some more uses for 3D IMO.

February 21st, 2011, 07:05 PM	#28
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	Re: zoom vs variable interaxial The streams are encoded in MVC format, which is basically the same as the Sony. There are several "profiles" to all these formats, so it is hard to say whether they are exactly the same, but most likely they are. The problem I had with the Sony was that the rep told me that you cannot read the stream out of the camcorder, and it has fairly huge on board storage, but they should be able to output the stream over the USB port, so I don't know how to interpret that statement. I heard that more than once. Of course anything recorded on the removable media should be readable, so hopefully they don't scramble the data somehow. It is my understanding that the Sony Vegas Pro either can now, or soon, will be able to edit the MVC stream. There are some converters available that can unwind MVC to dual AVC streams, and other formats. Of course once you demux the stream, just about any editor should be able to handle it. The beauty is that everything is nicely aligned in time and space. I spend a long time to do that with my footage.

February 27th, 2011, 09:34 AM	#29
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Re: zoom vs variable interaxial Sony Vegas 10 will edit most MVC formats. I have been playing with a pair of Canon XF105's on my mirror rig and with the 105's you can use the optical image stabiliser to compensate for lens axis shifts. It's very clever and takes only a couple of minutes to calibrate the cameras using the built in routine. Once both cameras were set I was able to do sync zooms that tracked very well using the IR remote. Very impressive. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

February 9th, 2011, 03:00 PM	#16
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	This, ironically, would help with the vergence-accomodation problem. Once you correct your vision with eyewear to focus to the screen, you are not re-focusing with convergence. At least it sounds like it.

February 11th, 2011, 02:58 PM	#17
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	I did an experiment on zooming a long time ago, when I was really starting with learning about all the 3D pitfalls, and this is what I got: YouTube - 3d: Early 3D Zoom Sync Tests . I didn't bother with any precision alignment, just eyeballing it. It is not good enough, specially if you start looking at it on 100" or so screen TVs. I was also good (and still am) at window violations. This is here to make the masters feel good ;-)

February 11th, 2011, 03:30 PM	#18
Frank Stearns Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Superior Wisconsin Posts: 62	Thanks for the YouTube link, Pavel. I watched it in checkerboard mode on my desktop monitor and it was fun to look at. All I have been able to do so far is zoom in small increments and adjust the toe in during the incremental pause in order to keep everything behind the screen. I am not able to synchronize the zoom with the toe in yet. Also, my current setup only toes in the right camera. My new design uses one servo to toe in both at the same time.

February 12th, 2011, 01:09 AM	#20
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	Thanks Adam. I completely forgot about the pitcher, sitting on the table, but I didn't want to process it out. The singer is Pavel Novak, was part of a band called Synkopa - music of my youth. He was very popular at one time (~1967), but unfortunately flamed out fast.

February 12th, 2011, 03:25 AM	#21
Adam Stanislav Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 1,258	Thanks. Unfortunately, I do not recognize his name, even though that was my youth as well. But he is good. Yes, the pitcher was a textbook example of what not to do. :) It was seen by one eye several times, while the other eye either saw just a small piece of it, or even none of it. That made it look transparent. And it was confusing because it was impossible to decide where in the 3D space it was. Of course it does not matter in your video because you were experimenting and the whole point of experimenting is to see what works and what does not. Your zooms certainly looked very nice as far as 3D is concerned.

February 16th, 2011, 07:49 PM	#22
Frank Stearns Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Superior Wisconsin Posts: 62	I am starting to see that dual camcorders have a serious defect which is lack of optical stabilizer lock. Not sure if there is a solution.

February 18th, 2011, 09:28 AM	#25
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	What about if you zoom in and back, will that effect the floating stabilizing element, or will it stay put?

February 20th, 2011, 11:03 AM	#26
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	Frank, I just saw a footage here: YouTube - 3d walk yushimatenjin ( 3D?? ???? ) , which had a lot of zooming in it, and looked very nice. I asked the author, and he said that it was captured with the new JVC camera (GS-TD1), which was recently released in Japan. This is definitely way better for my needs, when taking closer shots, than my current rig. Zooming seems flawless, stabilized... I am impressed. I saw the camera but never any footage from it, until now. The depth bracket doesn't go too far, so it would be a good compliment with my current rig, that can be spaced wider with no problems. Both would be still lighter than mirror rigs.

February 27th, 2011, 02:54 PM	#30
Pavel Houda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Laguna Hills, CA Posts: 352	Re: zoom vs variable interaxial That is great news on both counts. BTW., I have been watching some new YouTube contributions from the new JVC camcorder, and I have mixed feelings about the new batch of narrow stereobase camcorders. They will certainly be lot more error proof than current amateur "rigs", and useful for closeups, but as would make sense, the 3D bracket is very small and the videos are "cardboardy". Good for close shots, but the 3D becomes 2D very quickly. I'd love very portable down mirror rig...