Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > 3D Stereoscopic Production & Delivery

3D Stereoscopic Production & Delivery
Discuss 3D (stereoscopic video) acquisition, post and delivery.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 27th, 2011, 09:38 AM   #1
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

I have been playing with a pair of Canon XF105's on my mirror rig and with the 105's you can use the optical image stabiliser to compensate for lens axis shifts. It's very clever and takes only a couple of minutes to calibrate the cameras using the built in routine. You zoom in on a target, then zoom out and use the calibrate function to shift the on screen image up/down, left/right until the image is centred on the same point and press save. Once both cameras were set I was able to do sync zooms that tracked almost perfectly using the IR remote. Very impressive.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2011, 08:21 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 480
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

Here's a shot of two Canon 105's on your Hurricane Rig here in LA
Attached Thumbnails
Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift-canon-105-handheld.jpg  
Bruce Schultz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2011, 01:26 PM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

We should have news on some Nun's knickers for the 105's at NAB as well as a handheld kit for the rig. Were working on the motor kit and oversize hood as well!
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 9th, 2011, 03:56 AM   #4
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,637
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

Does the XF305 have the same built-in routine?
__________________
Tim Dashwood
Tim Dashwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2011, 11:47 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 480
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

Tim, surprisingly, I don't think it does. Geoff Boyle on CML posted a beta test review some months back about these features for 3D, but indicated then that they were confined to this 105 model. Maybe that's changed with a firmware update, I don't know, but I was pretty impressed with how easily these little guys lined up on the Hurricane Rig the day we tried them out utilizing the lens alignment features. Also, recording a pretty robust 4:2:2 (albeit in AVCHD codec) was impressive - but like all the rest, it's best to record out to I-Frame Nano Flash for optimum results. It's also only a single CMOS chip, 1/3" I believe.
Bruce Schultz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2011, 06:22 PM   #6
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,637
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

Hi BRuce,

I have two XF105 rentals in my hands (just picked them up) but I'm working on genlocking one to the other. Did you use an external genlock or did you take the component Y out and feed it into the other camera's genlock in? This is what I had to do to get genlock between them. Unfortunately that means I can't also constantly slave TC. I can slave some free run TC on both and check periodically.

The little hitch we noticed right away was that the built-in mic is too far forward to put these in any mirror rig without the lens hood attached.
__________________
Tim Dashwood
Tim Dashwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11th, 2011, 08:43 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 480
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

Tim, we just sent Y from one cam to genlock in of the other. The whole setup was together for maybe an hour just to check it out on the Hurricane. I've been genlocking 2 F3's this way also, but I'm ordering an AJA sync generator box because I think that's a more robust solution - at least until the 4:4:4, S-Log, 3D firmware comes out, after which the genlock will be internal as I understand it. The old way still works fine though.

Curious to hear about image quality on these 105's when you get a chance to post some results.
Bruce Schultz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12th, 2011, 04:40 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

Tim, we are working on a solution to the Mic issue for the Hurricane-rig. There will be two options. The first is to use some Genus Nuns Knickers to close the gap between the rear baffle and camera lens. This gets the cameras closer to the mirror than with the canon hood. The second option will be an optional hood with a 140mm aperture in the rear of the hood, big enough to get the entire front of the camera into the hood. However we have found that the microphone gets in to the shot when fully when the cameras are very close to the mirror, the optimum distance appears to be close to where the cameras end up when you get them as close as they will go to the existing hood/baffle.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 08:25 AM   #9
New Boot
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lewes, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 13
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Schultz View Post
Tim, we just sent Y from one cam to genlock in of the other. The whole setup was together for maybe an hour just to check it out on the Hurricane. I've been genlocking 2 F3's this way also, but I'm ordering an AJA sync generator box because I think that's a more robust solution - at least until the 4:4:4, S-Log, 3D firmware comes out, after which the genlock will be internal as I understand it. The old way still works fine though.

Curious to hear about image quality on these 105's when you get a chance to post some results.
Hi,
I'm just thinking of hiring two of these cameras (xf105) to play around with 3D shootings. I'm new to genlock etc, so would love to know exactly which cable I need to get to genlock- it's a BNC at one end, but what type of plug do I need at the other? I'd like to have the cable ready before I hire the cameras, and I can't find the information as to what type of connector I need. Any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Fergus

Last edited by Fergus Kennedy; March 24th, 2011 at 08:27 AM. Reason: extra info
Fergus Kennedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 10:01 AM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York NY
Posts: 322
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

You need to connect both cameras to a single sync generator. Either the AJA Gen10 or the Black Magic sync generator will do fine.
__________________
Post production is not an afterthought!
www.arniepix.com
Arnie Schlissel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 10:15 AM   #11
New Boot
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lewes, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 13
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

Ah, OK Arnie, thanks, that makes sense. I understood from the conversation above that you could avoid that by connecting component Y out of one camera to Genlock in on the other.
Fergus Kennedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 24th, 2011, 11:38 AM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 480
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

The XF105 has a component output and you can use it to genlock to the BNC genlock in on the other camera. Usually you have to use the included component cable to connect to the component connector and then use an RCA to BNC connector to finish the cable run to genlock in of the other camera.

All that being said, it's more robust and reliable to use an external sync generator as mentioned.

As far as timecode goes, you might have some problems there with synchronous code as the genlock input is shared by timecode on this camera. If you use external recorders like a Nano Flash 3D then you can output one of the camera's timecode to both them. Someone else with more time with these cameras might chime in to offer a synchronous timecode solution.
Bruce Schultz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 25th, 2011, 05:41 AM   #13
New Boot
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lewes, East Sussex, UK
Posts: 13
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

Thanks Bruce. That's what I needed to know. I'll order in one of those adapters before I hire the cameras.

Fergus
Fergus Kennedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2011, 01:28 PM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Malibu, CA
Posts: 480
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

Further work with the XF105 cameras on a 3D rig has forced me to ammend an earlier statement about genlocking the cameras together using component Y out to genlock in of the other. What appears to happen is that the two pictures are slightly offset vertically when you do this.

The problem disappears when you use an external sync generator or you can also make it work by using a Lanc Shepherd controller, but I have no direct experience with this and have only heard it works from others who have done it.

So the obvious answer seems to be that an external sync generator is mandatory for any 3D work with these two cameras.

As an aside, we were very impressed with how accurately these tiny cameras lined up picture-wise on the rig.
Bruce Schultz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2011, 03:23 PM   #15
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 3,637
Re: Canon XF105's and Zoom Axis Shift

The phase can be adjusted in the genlock menu. Of course you won't know if the signal is in phase without outputting on screen characters.
__________________
Tim Dashwood
Tim Dashwood is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Special Interest Areas > 3D Stereoscopic Production & Delivery

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:40 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network