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Old April 20th, 2012, 04:17 AM   #1
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Looking for a 3D camera

Hi all,

It's been a long time since I last started a thread here. It's good to be back.

I'm currently looking for a mid-range or semipro 3D camcorder. 99% of its use will be recording during in/outdoors pro photoshoots, so light is not really a problem. Also the shooting distance will always be between 50cm and about 2m. I'm looking for something that's easy to use, with a sharp image and nice colors. I won't be shooting, just editing the footage, that's why I want to keep it simple on the client side so he doesn't panic with the new toy.

I've been looking and I'm thinking the new TD20 from Sony may be a good option. I've seen a few samples and it looks ok, although most people don't really know how to correct 3D footage and most tests suffer from ghosting and bad/excessive compression. Is it possible to download any original TD10/TD20 footage to play with somewhere?

Is there anything clearly better than the TD20 in terms of image, definition and color below $2,000-2,500?

Also, what's the best option to separate both streams to edit anaglyph 3D on a Mac?

Thanks a lot.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 04:27 AM   #2
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

By the way, reading the specs for the TD20 it says 60p recording. Is it available during 3D shooting or that's just for 2D? If it does give 60p in 3D, is it really progressive or some kind of strange interlaced container?

Thanks.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 07:11 AM   #3
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

Personally, I would use a Panasonic Z10000 and edit in either Edius 3D (my choice) or Sony Vegas.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 07:37 AM   #4
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

Yes, that's probably the obvious choice for the task. It's actually a pro camera, it has everything a pro needs and also offers better color and better image. The only problem is its $3,500 price tag which may be a bit too much for my client (don't really know yet). Anyway you're right and I'll try to convince him about it.

Just in case the budget ends up being around those $2,000 is there something better than the TD20 out there for that price?

And about Vegas and Edius, isn't there anything more "mac friendly"? I know I have bootcamp, but still I'd like to be able to do everything in OSX.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 08:15 AM   #5
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

Try to get one of the outrunning Sony TD10, if the Z10K is too expensive. The TD10 has a better IO of 31 mm what was reduced with the TD20 to something about 20 mm. Even if I am not sure for your short distance to the objects of 50 cm - that is something where the Z10K has a macro modus, but if you will be able to produce something with the TD10/20 really, I am not so sure. I will give that a try with my Sony TD10.

Maybe that is a solution for you:
Stereo3D Toolbox Lite Edition
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Old April 20th, 2012, 09:02 AM   #6
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

Thanks! I really appreciate the testing.

By the way, the TD10 doesn't have a fullhd progressive mode, right? Anyway you can always deinterlace in post.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 02:24 PM   #7
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

Jose, I've been running the Edius 3D beta software on Win7 under Parallels on an i7 iMac without any issues. I don't have full realtime playback because of all the software layers but I'm hoping to resolve this with an external video interface. A bit experimental at the moment but it's been fine for editing my Z10k footage.

Cheers

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Old April 20th, 2012, 03:08 PM   #8
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

For the TD10, with a distance of 50 cm, the disparty tends to be still fine if you adjust it in wide angel to the object But be aware that there are limitations - in the farpoint is not very near, with such an adjustment disparty will become to large at the farepoint.
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Old April 22nd, 2012, 04:44 PM   #9
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

To work with objects 50 cm from the camera, if your background is any more than 3m away your going to need a much narrower IO than 30mm. Even 20 mm is wide for such a close subject. Either limit how close you get to your subject to at least 1m, preferably 2m or your going to need to use a beam splitter rig.

There is an old 3D rule of thumb known as the 30 x rule which says that the closest you can bring your subject to the camera is 30x the IO. In my opinion that rule should be the 50x rule for TV and 70x for big screen productions.
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Old April 22nd, 2012, 05:20 PM   #10
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

Ok, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!
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Old April 23rd, 2012, 07:31 AM   #11
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

That would be one advantage of the Z10000 - that has a 3D macro mode.
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Old April 24th, 2012, 03:57 AM   #12
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

Hi All,

Minimum distance to object for 3D with the TD10 is 80cm whilst the TD20 is 30cm

Paul :-)
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Old April 24th, 2012, 09:44 AM   #13
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

Something like this is handy for macro/closeups.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #14
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Newman View Post
Hi All,

Minimum distance to object for 3D with the TD10 is 80cm whilst the TD20 is 30cm

Paul :-)
Nonsense. Perhaps for focussing or closest possible convergence. But the stereo will be painful to watch. The 30x rule has been around for decades, it originates from 3D photography for printed publications where the finished image would be around A4 size, these days we are talking about TV's with screens 4 times that size or more. Even just using the 30x rule the minimum distances are 96cm and 60cm and frankly that's still to way too close.

Try running the numbers through a stereoscopic calculator and you'll see that to get as close as 30cm with a moderately wide lens (the TD10 and TD20 are not particularly wide) for comfortable 3D you really want a single digit I/O. Realistically the closest you want to bring these cameras to your subject is about 1.5m and 1.2m.
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Old April 25th, 2012, 10:45 AM   #15
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Re: Looking for a 3D camera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Newman View Post
Hi All,

Minimum distance to object for 3D with the TD10 is 80cm whilst the TD20 is 30cm

Paul :-)
I would be very surprised if these cameras could even focus that close. 30cm is very close to the lens.
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