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Old September 12th, 2012, 11:38 PM   #1
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HDC-Z10000 first take

Not sure where to post this, so please excuse me if I'm posting this in the wrong area...

I wanted to post my first impressions of the HDC-Z10000 and 3D in general.

First, my stuff:
HDC-Z10000
Brand new maxed out iMac 27" with 24" external display (blah blah blah...)
LG 47" passive 3D TV

Workflow:
Shoot (all in auto for now)
Convert using GoPro Studio
Transcode to ProRes 422
Import to FCPX
Edit and export

I just returned from a vacation of Yellowstone, and being my first time there, it was heaven and lots of eye candy to shoot.... lots of textures and layers that make for great 3D opportunities.

I whipped together a quick video of my vacation, and it's about 400MB at 1080p, and not knowing where to post the video, I'm making it available here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xup1nd7tbw...0-%20Vimeo.mov

My next hurdle is to figure out how to make stereo text as I have a paid shoot coming up that they want some text callouts. Any help would be most appreciated.

My first impressions of the HDC-Z10000 is that it's a great camera, and the auto functions have been my life saver to this point, though I plan on trying my hand on the manual stuff as time permits.

Editing in FCPX is a breeze, but rendering and export takes for ever because you're rendering twice the info (I think...).

Would love to hear your feedback on the video AND how to make stereo text callouts.

Thanks,

Tony
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Old September 13th, 2012, 01:20 PM   #2
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

Hi Tony. Congratulations on getting your camera and set-up.

I'm curious about your workflow. Do you use GoPro Studio to create the over/under image, and then cut that in FCPX? That shouldn't be a problem, as long as your convergence is well set at the GoPro stage.

However, it may be more of an issue, if you want to do things like create 3D text. The simplest way (that I know of) to do that is through After Effects (CS5.5 and beyond), which has a stereoscopic camera option. Just create the text with whatever extrusion you want, and then select Layer>Camera>Create Stereo 3D Rig. The comp you're working on will become 4 comps: the original, a left view, right view, and the stereo view, which displays in red/blue anagylphic by default. The convergence and display methods can be adjusted in the Stereo comp, via its Stereo Controls>Filters>3D Glasses. Of course, the text layer must be set as a 3D layer, in order to take advantage of the stereo view.

One reason it may be nice to keep the left and right views separate from your footage is that when you create the AE stereo rig, you can put one view each, into your Left and Right Comps. Then you can align the text on top of your source footage, so you're sure you've placed it well, in all 3 axes. If you try to comp using over/under or left/right, then all of your re-scale functions will be very confusing.

Note: since the stereo AE comp only gives the option of one convergence slider (under the 3D Glasses filter I mentioned above), I usually leave that slider neutral. Instead, I adjust the position within the individual L/R comps, so that I can adjust each layer in a comp, rather than the entire comp, all together. This gives me much greater control over every depth plane.

Another good option for 3D text are CGI programs. I use 3DS Max. I like this approach, because then I'm really treating the text as an object, rather than as an overlay. I can apply bump maps and various distortions to the text, giving it more "actually there" feel.

I've made a bunch of recent text experiments using 3DS Max and comping in AE. The following video has a couple of them, for examples.

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Old September 13th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #3
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

Tony:

Why transcode into ProRes? Why not stay in Cineform (out of GoPro Studio). The files are nicely muxed together as a bonus. If you prefer to maintain a separate left and right eye stream, GoPro will let you split the Cineform file up too.

For 3D titling in FCP-X, try the Dashwood Stereo Toolbox plug-in.
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Old September 13th, 2012, 08:59 PM   #4
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

Matt,

I failed to mention I use Dashwood's plugin to adjust convergence,etc....

I haven't read your full reply yet, but will. Thank you for your feedback.

Tony
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Old September 13th, 2012, 09:01 PM   #5
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

Quote:
Originally Posted by David M. Cole View Post
Tony:

Why transcode into ProRes? Why not stay in Cineform (out of GoPro Studio). The files are nicely muxed together as a bonus. If you prefer to maintain a separate left and right eye stream, GoPro will let you split the Cineform file up too.

For 3D titling in FCP-X, try the Dashwood Stereo Toolbox plug-in.
David,

I transcode because FCPX will do it if I don't, and I don't know any better.... :-)

Titling in dashwood? Are you sure it does that? I haven't tried, but as I understood, it doesn't have that function.

Thanks... I will give it a go.

Tony
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Old September 13th, 2012, 09:04 PM   #6
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

Matt,

WOW.... thanks for the details in your reply. I am going to have to take some time and digest it and see what I can do.

Has anyone played with this?

Rampant Design Tools RAMPANT STEREO 3D SUITE - Stereoscopic Production Tools for After Effects - Rampant Design Tools
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Old September 15th, 2012, 12:12 AM   #7
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Reidsma View Post
Titling in dashwood? Are you sure it does that? I haven't tried, but as I understood, it doesn't have that function.
You can apply our filter to any element (including text in FCP X) and simply adjust the convergence to push the 2D element into positive parallax or bring it out into negative parallax. Try not to exceed 1% negative parallax for text or it will become more difficult to fuse and read.

I am also curious about your ingest workflow? I personally capture directly from the Z10000 to ProRes422 using Blackmagic's Ultrastudio3D and their Media Express software. Unfortunately the camera will only output 1080i59.94 3D over HDMI, even if you shot in 1080p24, so I then need to use Cinema Tools, After Effects or Compressor 4 to do a reverse telecine on 24p material.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 11:00 PM   #8
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood View Post
I am also curious about your ingest workflow? I personally capture directly from the Z10000 to ProRes422 using Blackmagic's Ultrastudio3D and their Media Express software. Unfortunately the camera will only output 1080i59.94 3D over HDMI, even if you shot in 1080p24, so I then need to use Cinema Tools, After Effects or Compressor 4 to do a reverse telecine on 24p material.
Thanks for the reply Tim, and thank you very much for the plugin!

I'm no expert, but I'll try to lay it out here.

1: Shoot
2: Put SD card in my iMac
3: Copy the PRIVATE folder to my desktop
4: Open GoPro Studio
5: Import the whole AVCHD folder
6: Add files to convert.... then convert
7: Skim through the files and export the LEFT and RIGHT files separately
8: Bring those into MPEG Streamclip and transcode to prores 422
9: Bring those into my FCPX events and start editing

Hope this is what you're looking for. It works perfectly.... for me.

Tony
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Old September 17th, 2012, 12:54 PM   #9
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

I've tried this with GoPro/Cineform Studio but nothing shows up in the import side when I "Import New Files" and select AVCHD or the PRIVATE folder, even from the original SD card. I just downloaded the latest version and the same thing is happening. I tried to drag and drop too. Any tips?
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Old September 17th, 2012, 04:13 PM   #10
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood View Post
I've tried this with GoPro/Cineform Studio but nothing shows up in the import side when I "Import New Files" and select AVCHD or the PRIVATE folder, even from the original SD card. I just downloaded the latest version and the same thing is happening. I tried to drag and drop too. Any tips?
I'm not at my computer but I'll try to explain....

First off, it won't work with footage shot in 60i

When you import, all you do is click in the AVCHD folder, and then the app will ingest anything that's 3D.

Select the clips you want to use and click ADD TO LIST, then click CONVERT.

After the conversion, you then click EDIT at the top of the screen.

You will now have the converted files on the left hand side and can play them back. This is where you can scrub and select in and out points to export.

Click on one of the clips on the left hand side and after you select an in and out point, select the RIGHT channel in the pull down menu in the upper right corner of the app. And click EXPORT (I think). It's the blue button on the lower right corner.

- do not change the in and out points -

After the export, select the pull down menu and select the LEFT channel and export that.

After this you will have a separate left and right video clip.

I won't be at my computer till tomorrow and I'll have a look then.

Tony
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Old September 18th, 2012, 05:05 AM   #11
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

I'll also add that when I was trying to figure this out, I ended up emailing GoPro directly and they were very quick to email back and walk me through this.

But I'm more than happy to help where I can.

Tony
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Old September 18th, 2012, 02:34 PM   #12
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

Hey Tony, I'm curious which version (Pro, Premiere, free download) of GoPro studio you have.
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Old September 18th, 2012, 02:41 PM   #13
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Faw View Post
Hey Tony, I'm curious which version (Pro, Premiere, free download) of GoPro studio you have.
I have Studio Premium
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Old September 19th, 2012, 09:11 PM   #14
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

Ah. Maybe the free version only accepts GoPro originated footage? I haven't been able to find a clear feature comparison sheet.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 05:00 AM   #15
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Re: HDC-Z10000 first take

indeed. the free version is limited to only GoPro footage... I believe.

You can download a demo version of the others, which is a full working app but it puts a watermark on the footage.
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