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Old August 15th, 2007, 09:34 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Christopher Lefchik View Post
Well, that's what I thought initially. But I noticed his revised DVD authoring workflow includes Encore for burning the DVD, in place of DVD Lab Pro.


Well If I export my audio and video via Adobe PP 2.0 I'll only need to use Encore or DVD Lab Pro to Author the DVD.

From my understanding, PP 2.0 and Encore have the exact same MainConcept MPEG2 encoder so there's no point NOT to export via PP 2.0.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 10:00 AM   #32
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The original question still doesn't seem to have been fully answered.

FWIW, my impression from other threads is: a) Encore and PPro are using the same encoder, b) the PPro1 and 2 versions weren't that great, and c) the CS3 version of the encoder has indeed improved, at least in relation to the HDV to SD Mpeg2 workflow.

(Though I wonder if Point c is more to do with resizing quality than encoding quality?)
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Old August 15th, 2007, 10:03 AM   #33
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The original question still doesn't seem to have been fully answered.

FWIW, my impression from other threads is: a) Encore and PPro are using the same encoder, b) the PPro1 and 2 versions weren't that great, and c) the CS3 version of the encoder has indeed improved, at least in relation to the HDV to SD Mpeg2 workflow.

(Though I wonder if Point c is more to do with resizing quality than encoding quality?)
So do you think they are using a more updated/better version of PP 2.0 in the CS3 version for the MainConcept Encoder?

Also, I keep hearing about the resizing issue. We simply choose are sizes with PP 2.0, is there a better way?
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Old August 15th, 2007, 10:07 AM   #34
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There was a thread in the last day or two where several users reported improved HDV to SD encoding quality - so yes it seems something has changed.

As an earlier poster said, I would suggest the main reason to chose between Encore vs. PPro DVD authoring would be whether you want sophisticated vs. plain vanilla menuing.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 11:13 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Ricky Breslin View Post
Well If I export my audio and video via Adobe PP 2.0 I'll only need to use Encore or DVD Lab Pro to Author the DVD.

From my understanding, PP 2.0 and Encore have the exact same MainConcept MPEG2 encoder so there's no point NOT to export via PP 2.0.
True, except that Encore can automatically adjust encoding settings to fit source material onto a DVD at the highest possible quality.

Also, the MainConcept MPEG-2 encoder only handles video. The audio is handled separately with other encoders. Whether you use the SurCode AC3 encoder in Premiere or the AC3 encoder in Encore, it doesn't much matter from a time standpoint.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 11:21 AM   #36
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True, except that Encore can automatically adjust encoding settings to fit source material onto a DVD at the highest possible quality.

Also, the MainConcept MPEG-2 encoder only handles video. The audio is handled separately with other encoders. Whether you use the SurCode AC3 encoder in Premiere or the AC3 encoder in Encore, it doesn't much matter from a time standpoint.
I'm a little confused, so in your opinion, what's the best "workflow" for my situation?

I'm doing everything in PP 2.0 now and making my master DVD in DVD Lab Pro. Your saying to use Encore to encode instead of PP 2.0?

So are you saying to just export to Microsoft DV AVI from PP 2.0 and do my Audio seperately using my SurCode plugin and bring both of those files into Adobe Encore and let encore encode my DVD?
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Old August 15th, 2007, 11:25 AM   #37
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My best results in PP 2.0 have been to export as an uncompressed AVI with DVD standard res and frame rate. Then, encode to DVD in Encore.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 11:39 AM   #38
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My best results in PP 2.0 have been to export as an uncompressed AVI with DVD standard res and frame rate. Then, encode to DVD in Encore.
Gotcha! But you would think that wouldn't be the case because your adding an extra step in the compression process right?

So basically people who buy Cinema Craft or Procoder will export Microsoft DV AVI and use those more expensive programs to convert to MPG2?

So from what I'm reading, the real degradation comes when our HDV footage is converted to MPG2, not AVI.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 11:49 AM   #39
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The issue happen when you apply multiple codecs to a file. When you're capturing footage it's already been put to tape using the HDV codec. Now from there, in my opinion, I want to limit the amount of other codecs used in handling that footage. The only other codecs that handled HDV well are ones like Cineform.

So, when I'm done with my edit. I export an uncompressed AVI file, not the DV because that's another codec. If you're going to DVD I export the file with DVD settings (720x480, 29.97). I have found letting Premier handle the transcoding and Encore doing the encoding creates better results.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 12:03 PM   #40
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The issue happen when you apply multiple codecs to a file. When you're capturing footage it's already been put to tape using the HDV codec. Now from there, in my opinion, I want to limit the amount of other codecs used in handling that footage. The only other codecs that handled HDV well are ones like Cineform.

So, when I'm done with my edit. I export an uncompressed AVI file, not the DV because that's another codec. If you're going to DVD I export the file with DVD settings (720x480, 29.97). I have found letting Premier handle the transcoding and Encore doing the encoding creates better results.
Okay, so is Uncompressed AVI NOT a codec and NOT degrading our files at all? Because if this is the case, you can always export it using UNCOMPRESSED AVI and let the better programs convert to MPEGII and simply make your master.

Our all around DVD's should look much better using this format.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 12:09 PM   #41
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I work with the same workflow. Shoot HDV, edit, export DV-AVI, let Encore do the math. Results look great.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 12:31 PM   #42
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I work with the same workflow. Shoot HDV, edit, export DV-AVI, let Encore do the math. Results look great.
But Steve isn't doing that and I don't think I will either.

I just ran a test. I exported our HDV file to an uncompressed AVI file and it went up against DV AVI and it smashed DV-AVI.

But that would only matter if you're going to take that footage and encode it I would imagine. Doesn't really matter if you just export MPEGII.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 12:43 PM   #43
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Okay, so is Uncompressed AVI NOT a codec and NOT degrading our files at all? Because if this is the case, you can always export it using UNCOMPRESSED AVI and let the better programs convert to MPEGII and simply make your master.

Our all around DVD's should look much better using this format.
You got, it the Uncompressed AVI doesn't add another codec. Every time you add another file format using another codec you're letting that codec interpret where the 0 and 1s go. To draw an analogy it's like the telephone message game. Each time you add a codec it changes the message how ever slight it might be.

Plus, there's a big difference between scaling/frame rate, which happen during transcoding, and encoding. I'd rather let one program do the scaling and another do the encoding.

I'm waiting to hear more response on if CS3 does a better one pass job on creating DVDs from HDV.
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Old August 15th, 2007, 12:55 PM   #44
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You got, it the Uncompressed AVI doesn't add another codec. Every time you add another file format using another codec you're letting that codec interpret where the 0 and 1s go. To draw an analogy it's like the telephone message game. Each time you add a codec it changes the message how ever slight it might be.

Plus, there's a big difference between scaling/frame rate, which happen during transcoding, and encoding. I'd rather let one program do the scaling and another do the encoding.

I'm waiting to hear more response on if CS3 does a better one pass job on creating DVDs from HDV.
Thanks Steve, your really helping and I appreciate it.

So just to clarify, would this the "BEST" workflow then:

1. Film in HDV using our Sony A1U
2. Use Firewire to get source footage to PP 2.0
3. Export the video timeline and choose UNCOMPRESSED AVI
4. Export audio using SurCode codec for Dolby Digital 5.1
5. Take the UNCOMPRESSED AVI and SurCode encoded Audio file into Encore
6 Let Encore make UNCOMPRESSED AVI and Encoded Audio an MPEGII file

Sound right?

And if we really wanted to see better results, we could always use Procoder or another encoder. But we just tried to drop the UNCOMPRESSED AVI to Cinema Craft and it wouldn't take it..
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Old August 15th, 2007, 01:11 PM   #45
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I'm not gonna comment on the audio issue becuase that's a whole other ball game.

For the video side, yes, that's what I'd do. Export an uncompressed AVI with DVD scale and frame rate, then imort in to encore and let it encode to DVD.

Uncompressed AVIs do not add another codec. The only down side to the process is the time it takes to create the AVI and the time to encode and the huge AVI file. The other benefit is you'll have a AVI file that if some time in the future you want to get professionally encoded it will be available.
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