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Old October 4th, 2007, 06:11 PM   #1
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Best s/w to transcode native HDV project into DVD complient MPEG

I'm editing native HDV in Premiere Pro CS3 and using the built-in Mainconcept codec to create MPEG files which I manually import into Encore CS3.

When I was editing DV I would export my project as a DV avi file and either use Canopus Procoder Express to transcode the file to mpeg - or instead of creating an avi file - I'd use the export menu choice which Procoder Express created in Premiere to create an mpeg file through Procoder Ex

I've seen references here to encoding software such as TMPGenc providing better results. Canopus, of course, dropped Procoder Express and the full Procoder suite is $500.00. If I wanted to try a different encoder like TMPGenc (which doesn't create an export choice in the Premire menu) what format would I use to export my project to in order to import it into TMPGenc?

Any tips appreciated.
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Old October 4th, 2007, 07:34 PM   #2
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Export an AVI and TMPGenc will encode for you. TMPGenc 4.0 or Author( Full DVD authoring) are very good encoders and give full indication as to how full the DVD will be for selected bit rate. For compatibility stay below 7000, AC3 Audio ( another TMPGenc plug in) and less than 90% full. I believe there is still a 30 day trial available.
http://tmpgenc.pegasys-inc.com/en/product/te4xp.html
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Old October 5th, 2007, 12:19 PM   #3
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Exporting to HDV will give you the highest possible quality. Some MPEG2 encoders will and some won't work with the large frame size; even those that work, will not resize correctly (resulting video will be blurred). I resize in VirtualDub and export to uncompressed, then encode to DVD using either Procoder, Squeeze, or TMPG.
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Old November 10th, 2007, 10:10 AM   #4
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File type to export to for best quality - best MPEG encoder

Thanks for these responses

1) To Ron - which flavor of AVI do you use?

2) To Ervin - how much disc space does one hour of uncompresed HD from HDV take up?

3) I don't need the fine tuning color correction abilities of Canopus Procoder.
On a pure quality comparison does anyone have info/experience with Procoder vs TMPGenc mpeg encoding?

Thanks in advance
Kevin
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Old November 10th, 2007, 10:43 AM   #5
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Output HDV then you can backup to tape as well as transcode for SD DVD. I have not done comparisons using HDV but with DV, TMPGenc is faster( almost twice as fast for 2 pass VBR) than Procoder and I can't see the difference in quality. I have not tried Speed encoder from Edius that is part of Procoder for HDV transcode to DVD compliant MPEG which is supposed to be very fast. I have only just upgraded to Edius 4.5 and my Edius 3.5 did not have speed encoder. I will try in the next few days and report back for you. For DV output to DVD though it is faster to output a DV AVi then use TMPGenc than to get Procoder express to encode with 2 pass VBR at quality level. A 2 hour 15 min video took 40 mins to export from Edius and 2 hour 20mins for TMPGenc 4 to transcode. It took Procoder Express 6 hours and 45 mins for the same video. Authored with DVDLab 2 and can't tell the difference in quality. I used the DVD Creator , part of Edius 4.5 as well for comparison, it took 1 hour 45 mins to create a DVD!!! I can tell the quality difference but my wife can't see any difference!!! The real difference is in motion artifacts in dark areas. When the camera is fixed there is very little difference between all these three encoders. Procoder and TMPGenc obviously have much better motion encoding.

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Old November 10th, 2007, 10:51 AM   #6
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Thanks

This is very helpful - thanks for such a thorough reply!
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Old November 10th, 2007, 12:09 PM   #7
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I use AE to prep the files. It is the only program I have found that correctly handles to interlacing issues of down-rezing. When going from 1080i(upper) to 480i(lower) image quality and motion smoothness can be greatly improved by handling all 60 fields independently. The odd 540 lines of HD are used to generate the even 240 lines of SD, and then vice versa for the second field. When this is done for correctly for every frame, motion is much smoother. For HD24p source, AE is also the best way I have found to add pulldown on downrez.
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Old November 10th, 2007, 02:28 PM   #8
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I'll put in a vote for exporting as an HDV transport stream, or else a Cineform avi if you have that option ....... then converting to DVD-mpeg with TMPG Xpress4.

Both methods work well for me.
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Old November 11th, 2007, 01:53 PM   #9
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Outputting HDV project as a native transport stream

Whch Premiere PPro CS3 menu choices do this - is it under export/movie ?

How much disc space does one hour of uncompresed HD take up?
Thanks!
KB
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Old November 11th, 2007, 08:33 PM   #10
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.m2t export is under \Export\Adobe Media Encoder\MPEG2

Provided you have a Cineform product installed, Cineform avi export will be under \Export\Movie\Cineform HD

Data rates are approx:
1 hour of uncompressed 1440x1080 29.96i = 438GB
1 hour of cineform medium-quality 1440x1080i = 49GB
1 hour of 1080i HDV .mts = 8.6GB
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Old November 11th, 2007, 10:34 PM   #11
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Perfect thanks!

Perfect thanks!
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Old November 11th, 2007, 11:02 PM   #12
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Settings to avoid re-encoding

Under MPEG2 there are many quality settings and controls to fine tune data rate etc.

How do I avoid re-encoding the HDV source files when I export this way - prior to doing the final transcode in TMPGenc. I would want the files to come out native I believe?
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Old November 12th, 2007, 06:22 PM   #13
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Exporting to an HDV compliant MPEG2 file WILL cause a quality loss, even if there are no changes in the edit. MPEG is NOT a generation transparent codec, and it blindly re-encodes based on the uncompressed output of the software, losing DIFFERENT information than the original compression to tape did. Definitely not the format I would recommend for making ANY intermediate files.
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Old November 13th, 2007, 02:44 PM   #14
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Summary so far

The goal is to finish a project shot in HDV then create the best quality SD DVD compliant MPEG file

Options

Adobe Media Encoder directly transcodes off the menu system of PPro to DVD compliant MPEG but the quality isn't great

TMPGenc and Edius have better quality but require an intermediate file to use. TMPGenc is faster

This file could be
Uncompressed - huge
Cineform - some cost to buy but good quality
.M2T - re-encodes when created with generational loss.

Procoder Express was dropped by Canopus and didn't do HDV of course but it did link to the Premiere Pro export menu and allow transcoding directly from the timeline to DVD compliant files - no intermediate file needed. Does anyone know if the new Procoder will do this?

I'm trying to summarize properly.

KB
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Old November 15th, 2007, 12:41 PM   #15
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I get very good results frameserving to TMPGenc express with Debugmode (free).
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