Capturing into Premiere CS3 on PC - lack of HDV Scene detect options driving me mad!! at DVinfo.net

Alex Wren · May 1st, 2008, 07:23 AM

Hi,

I have a JVC GY HD111 and am using Premiere CS3 on a PC.

I am really struggling to get a good solution for capturing. As we all know Scene detect does not work when capturing HDV on Premiere. I do not have the latest version of Cineform (or the budget) , also the trials I have run produce massive files and makes my timeline unusable speedwise. HDVsplit using scene detect does not work with the JVC.

It seems the only options I have are:

- Capture the whole tape and then create sub clips (made more annoying as the trim command in the project manager no longer works properly) - this means I waste disk space for the unused parts of my capture.

- Capture each scene manually - time consuming and faffy

- I have tried importing the clips into After Effects, using a third party script to detect scene breaks - it does work but is time consuming and then leaves the problem of manually exporting each layer as a different file and the choice of codec to use...

- Find some mpeg splitting software that is not going to cause problems with GOP's etc

It seems to me that this whole capture problem is a massive issue that must be driving people crazy! I choose to shoot my 5 tapes for this project in HDV as everybody seems to going on about the need for HDV versions for later and the improved quality when down converting to SD etc etc. I really wish I had shot in SD now and then I could just do a normal 'tape' capture using scene detect.

Have I just done HDV for HDV's sake?

Anyway rant over - what I would love to know is how is everybody getting round this lack of scene detect in Premiere?

Alex

Ervin Farkas · May 1st, 2008, 07:52 AM

HDVSplit has a second function, splitting already captured video into scenes.

Have you tried that?

Alex Wren · May 1st, 2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ervin Farkas

HDVSplit has a second function, splitting already captured video into scenes.

Have you tried that?

Hi Ervin,

Good idea - I have just downloaded it and tested it. However it just created a new file exactly the same. If I remember it is something to do with the way the JVC cameras record information in the file (I think it is different to other cameras).

Thanks anyway.

Alex

Jiri Fiala · May 1st, 2008, 03:30 PM

Yes, JVC seems to have some proprietary way of coding the MPEG stream - Final Cut has HUGE problems with JVC scene detection as well. I am lucky enough to have Matrox RTX2 (which gives other headaches, trust me :). Try HDVSplit or capturing with other app, like Vegas.

Or go and buy Cineform, that will give you great workflow options, added quality and scene detection as well.

Paolo Ciccone · May 1st, 2008, 04:17 PM

Guy, I don't man to sound harsh here but in the world of film there is no freakin' scene detection, that's why we slate every shot. Capturing each scene is part of the job. That's why both Premiere and FCP have extensive logging utilities.

Tripp Woelfel · May 1st, 2008, 07:27 PM

Paolo... I don't mean to sound flip but the realm of digital video offers lots of tools and functions. I want to use every single stinkin' one that helps me do my work better and more efficiently. Scene detection is one of those tools that I deem invaluable. I need it, and I expect others do too.

The fact that PP omitted it from their feature set for HDV is, well, silly. HDV Split fills that void.

Paolo Ciccone · May 2nd, 2008, 01:53 AM

Tripp, I always shot digital, I think in digital, I worked as a regular bit-pusher, aka programmer, for 28 years, I'm there with you regarding digital technology and the "tricks" that we can use. It's just that sometimes it's just faster to do the job by hand than spending so much time in searching a tool to automate the operation. Just MHO.

Alex Wren · May 2nd, 2008, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripp Woelfel

The fact that PP omitted it from their feature set for HDV is, well, silly. HDV Split fills that void.

HDV SPlit is a superb tool - shame it doesn't work on the JVC cameras with the scene detect option. I think someone could be onto a good thing if this could work somehow.

Alex Wren · May 2nd, 2008, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone

Guy, I don't man to sound harsh here but in the world of film there is no freakin' scene detection, that's why we slate every shot. Capturing each scene is part of the job. That's why both Premiere and FCP have extensive logging utilities.

Thanks Paolo,

I must admit that I tend not to keep shot records (I know this is very unpro). Instead I tend to capture each tape in full, use scene detect to split the files and then review on screen/monitor and delete and comment as necessary. Saves paper, time and confusion reading my own writing...

Looks like I might need to revise my methods.

Alex Wren · May 2nd, 2008, 04:20 AM

I have just downloaded the MPEG Streamclip video converter from http://www.squared5.com/svideo/mpeg-streamclip-win.html

From what I can see it is ideal. Hopefully this means I can just capture a tape, run it through MPEG Streamclip and use the 'edit list' feature in the 'List' menu to automatically select the scene and set in and out points. Still trying to workout how to save it back in the original file format (although the "convert to MPEG with MP2 Audio" seems to import into Premiere CS3 fine without it wanting to render on the timeline).

Have I just found the answer? Seems pretty good to me!

Paolo Ciccone · May 2nd, 2008, 09:04 AM

Alex, how is this different from logging or setting subclips? MPSC doesn't do auto detection AFAIK.

Alex Wren · May 2nd, 2008, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone

Alex, how is this different from logging or setting subclips? MPSC doesn't do auto detection AFAIK.

Hi Paolo,

For me it means that I can capture the tape in one go and then put my camera away. I can then review on screen and split, name and delete accordingly.

I agree it is not quite scene detect - however this discovery has made me quite happy and I feel it will be of benefit.

Have a nice weekend!

Kevin Ahronson · December 9th, 2008, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Fiala

Yes, JVC seems to have some proprietary way of coding the MPEG stream - Final Cut has HUGE problems with JVC scene detection as well. I am lucky enough to have Matrox RTX2 (which gives other headaches, trust me :). Try HDVSplit or capturing with other app, like Vegas.

I've been struggling with this same issue.

In the end I turned to Sony Vegas Pro 8. No problems with scene detection from my JVC at all.

When I was first thinking about upgrading from Vegas to PP CS4 I read somewhere on this site that both pieces of software have their own strengths and weaknesses. This is definately one in Sony's favour. I have since discovered other strengths in Vegas over PP. It's all swings and roundabouts I guess.

May 1st, 2008, 07:23 AM	#1
Alex Wren Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 161	Capturing into Premiere CS3 on PC - lack of HDV Scene detect options driving me mad!! Hi, I have a JVC GY HD111 and am using Premiere CS3 on a PC. I am really struggling to get a good solution for capturing. As we all know Scene detect does not work when capturing HDV on Premiere. I do not have the latest version of Cineform (or the budget) , also the trials I have run produce massive files and makes my timeline unusable speedwise. HDVsplit using scene detect does not work with the JVC. It seems the only options I have are: - Capture the whole tape and then create sub clips (made more annoying as the trim command in the project manager no longer works properly) - this means I waste disk space for the unused parts of my capture. - Capture each scene manually - time consuming and faffy - I have tried importing the clips into After Effects, using a third party script to detect scene breaks - it does work but is time consuming and then leaves the problem of manually exporting each layer as a different file and the choice of codec to use... - Find some mpeg splitting software that is not going to cause problems with GOP's etc It seems to me that this whole capture problem is a massive issue that must be driving people crazy! I choose to shoot my 5 tapes for this project in HDV as everybody seems to going on about the need for HDV versions for later and the improved quality when down converting to SD etc etc. I really wish I had shot in SD now and then I could just do a normal 'tape' capture using scene detect. Have I just done HDV for HDV's sake? Anyway rant over - what I would love to know is how is everybody getting round this lack of scene detect in Premiere? Alex

May 1st, 2008, 07:52 AM	#2
Ervin Farkas Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta/USA Posts: 2,515	HDVSplit has a second function, splitting already captured video into scenes. Have you tried that? __________________ Ervin Farkas www.AtlantaLegalVideo.com

May 1st, 2008, 04:17 PM	#5
Paolo Ciccone Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 1,116	Guy, I don't man to sound harsh here but in the world of film there is no freakin' scene detection, that's why we slate every shot. Capturing each scene is part of the job. That's why both Premiere and FCP have extensive logging utilities. __________________ Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com Demo Reel

May 2nd, 2008, 01:53 AM	#7
Paolo Ciccone Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 1,116	Tripp, I always shot digital, I think in digital, I worked as a regular bit-pusher, aka programmer, for 28 years, I'm there with you regarding digital technology and the "tricks" that we can use. It's just that sometimes it's just faster to do the job by hand than spending so much time in searching a tool to automate the operation. Just MHO. __________________ Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com Demo Reel

May 2nd, 2008, 04:20 AM	#10
Alex Wren Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 161	MPEG Streamclip video converter looks to be a good solution I have just downloaded the MPEG Streamclip video converter from http://www.squared5.com/svideo/mpeg-streamclip-win.html From what I can see it is ideal. Hopefully this means I can just capture a tape, run it through MPEG Streamclip and use the 'edit list' feature in the 'List' menu to automatically select the scene and set in and out points. Still trying to workout how to save it back in the original file format (although the "convert to MPEG with MP2 Audio" seems to import into Premiere CS3 fine without it wanting to render on the timeline). Have I just found the answer? Seems pretty good to me!

May 1st, 2008, 03:30 PM	#4
Jiri Fiala Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Brno Czech Republic Posts: 453	Yes, JVC seems to have some proprietary way of coding the MPEG stream - Final Cut has HUGE problems with JVC scene detection as well. I am lucky enough to have Matrox RTX2 (which gives other headaches, trust me :). Try HDVSplit or capturing with other app, like Vegas. Or go and buy Cineform, that will give you great workflow options, added quality and scene detection as well.

May 1st, 2008, 07:27 PM	#6
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Paolo... I don't mean to sound flip but the realm of digital video offers lots of tools and functions. I want to use every single stinkin' one that helps me do my work better and more efficiently. Scene detection is one of those tools that I deem invaluable. I need it, and I expect others do too. The fact that PP omitted it from their feature set for HDV is, well, silly. HDV Split fills that void.

May 2nd, 2008, 09:04 AM	#11
Paolo Ciccone Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Santa Cruz, CA Posts: 1,116	Alex, how is this different from logging or setting subclips? MPSC doesn't do auto detection AFAIK. __________________ Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com Demo Reel