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Old June 22nd, 2009, 11:23 PM   #1
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Goodbye Final Cut Hello Premiere

So I work at a post facility that uses both FCP and high end Avids like Symphony DX and down. The Avids get the broadcast stuff and the FCP gets the independent guys. Recently though I feel that Apple has been lacking in their Pro Apps department which I'm sure some of you are aware of. It's looking like no real innovations are coming from FCP anytime soon and it looks worse after every new i-(phone,pod,mac,toaster,book,tv,etc) is released.

I am taking a cue from the BBC and am trying to switch things over to Premiere for projects not calling for the attributes of Avids, mainly our Unity server to span multiple stations.

I already use Photoshop, After Effects and am getting into Encore for the Blu Ray. It seems the real bump in the workflow was FCP where if I incorporated Premiere I can use the dynamic link feature. That feature and many others are making the CS4 and whats to come very attractive.

Before I take the plunge however I wanted to ask a couple questions since I stopped with Premiere on CS2 and only did one thing on it. I kind of want real world answers rather than the market hyperbole. I'm used to FCP dropping the ball so I want to know where Premiere has it's faults and if they cross paths with what I look for in a NLE.

Question 1: In terms of color correction is Synthetic Aperture the only worthwhile plug in for CC'ing? No Magic Bullet please, I'm used to grading on Symphonies and Color so I want something with that much hoodspa. Also can Premiere render those grades in 10 bit and up? FCP seems to be stuck at 8 bit minus Color.

Question 2: I am obviously running a Mac Pro for FCP but was wondering if there really are noticeable differences between Windows and Mac? I know certain things are 64 bit on Windows and not Mac and Encore is somewhat slow on Leopard but I couldn't find any known issues for Adobe and Leopard.

Question 3: This might be wishful thinking but are there any strong media management tools for Premiere somewhat like Avid's Media Tool? I'm assuming it will be in plug in form since Premiere doesn't use MXF's with locators.

Question 4: FCP has Pro Res, would I need to get Cineform as an offline codec or is there something provided in Premiere. I edit a lot of HDCAM and tapeless so this is kind of important. Also if I got Cineform a Blackmagic card could encode an HDSDI signal using that codec right?

Thanks Guys
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 07:24 AM   #2
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I am fairly new to Premiere so will let others answer your questions. I will say, however, that I recommend you get the Matrox Axio hardware as part of your package. You will be glad you did.

- Many more realtime layers of video and graphics
- Realtime mixed-format timelines
- More effects in realtime, including color correction, and much more
- Broadcast quality realtime 3D efx, with realistic shadows
- Native MXF file support
- Native support many additional codecs
- Realtime mixed format multi-cam
- much much more
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 07:35 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by James Brill View Post
...I am taking a cue from the BBC and am trying to switch things over to Premiere for projects not calling for the attributes of Avids....
That's interesting, James. Any references?
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 11:50 AM   #4
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Adobe - Adobe Press Room: For immediate release

BBC Training & Development > Adobe Premiere Pro [01CAP660] - Course details

I guess they realized what I'm getting now which is you use a lot of Adobe stuff like After Effects, Photoshop, and Flash encoding anyways just complete the circle and save yourself time and money.
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 10:54 PM   #5
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James,

just a heads up on the Dynamic Link... you can't just buy Premiere for Dynamic Link to work with the other Adobe apps - you have to get it as part of the Creative Suite. It could have changed with CS4 versions, but I know that I can't go back and forth between AE and Premiere and Encore with stand alone copies. However, as with any Adobe program, .PSD's will automatically update with changes, but I don't know if that's part of dynamic link to begin with. Just a note.

On Mac Pro... I feel that scrubbing the timeline is a bit more sluggish than my Windows CS2 version. Also, firewire capture is very faulty, at least for me. Once again tho, I'm still on CS3, and that was Premiere's re-entry to the Mac platform, so maybe they've tidy'd it up tho. Still fast and intuitive enough for quick and dirty projects.

As far as the Media Tool - Premiere has a limited-feature "Project Tool" which is great for weeding out unused files and gathering all your used source files in one location. Only thing is it more or less trims source clipsl that you are using in your timelines - which makes recapture a moot issue for that project. I've only used it a few times so I can't vouch for it's reliability.

That's all I got. Not the same familiar editing efficiency you'll get from Media Composer but Adobe's products have an intuitive workflow in their own right.

Mike B.
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 11:32 PM   #6
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Same Boat

I'm a Avid / FCP editor with about 5 years and recently installed CS4 Master Suite.
I learned on Premiere many moons ago but when I launched it I immediately shrugged. The media management, the cheesy encoder app (resembles compressor but without all the bells and whistles) but the real value appears to be in Encore CS4. Apple hasn't come close yet with DVDSP.

Not to hijack but can anyone recommend a decent book to get me fast-tracked on Premiere CS4?

To add another question: Is there a send to command (like in FCP) that allows these Adobe applications to talk to one another?

Thanks,
-C
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Old June 23rd, 2009, 11:50 PM   #7
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Mike - Thanks for the heads up. I never would of guessed that.

For media management, atleast FCP has the Find tool and media manager for consolidating. I'm sure Adobe will have something better in not too long if it already doesn't.

Christopher - Hijack all you want it seems like we are on the same page. I was really let down by Media Encoder since it only does flash and it's de-interlacing is terrible and can't be modified. It does do .F4V easy which is a bit more difficult in most other suites.

I use Episode Pro for my intense encoding so I can handle that.
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Old June 24th, 2009, 07:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Brill View Post
Question 1: In terms of color correction is Synthetic Aperture the only worthwhile plug in for CC'ing? No Magic Bullet please, I'm used to grading on Symphonies and Color so I want something with that much hoodspa. Also can Premiere render those grades in 10 bit and up? FCP seems to be stuck at 8 bit minus Color.
I can't speak from experience, but I think you would want to do all of your color correcting in after effects. You can open a ppro project in AE so you'd be able to work on each clip as a unique layer.

Quote:
Question 2: I am obviously running a Mac Pro for FCP but was wondering if there really are noticeable differences between Windows and Mac? I know certain things are 64 bit on Windows and not Mac and Encore is somewhat slow on Leopard but I couldn't find any known issues for Adobe and Leopard.
Encore projects from windows cant be opened on the mac (last time i heard). DV/HDV capture is a no no too. Adobe Ultra is taking a break from CS4, but I dont think you'd use that anyway. There is no adobe audition for the mac, so you're stuck with Sounbooth. You can buy a plugin for protools that will take ppro generated omf files, to do serious audio work.

Quote:
Question 3: This might be wishful thinking but are there any strong media management tools for Premiere somewhat like Avid's Media Tool? I'm assuming it will be in plug in form since Premiere doesn't use MXF's with locators.
PPro's project manager is ok for cleaning a project up after handover. It will remove unused source from the project bin, and can create a copy of the whole project in a new location. From there you could delete all source that is recapturable, and backup the rest of the folder to DVDs/ a server for possible future use.

In terms of asset management during the project, there are now search boxes in many of the panes allowing you to seach for clips by name and metadata.

Bridge is pretty good. You can preview clips in there, place them in different adobe apps, quickly filter lists and pin searches while you continue browsing deeper into folders.

PPro's built in media browser is reasonable for browsing tapeless formats but you must remember to copy the folder structure from the camera intact, otherwise PPro, Bridge and the media browser all screw up and stop being able to see/write metadata to the files.
Also note that since leopard cant generate thumbnails for many of the tapeless formats, neither can bridge or premiere. Actually Bridge is almost useless for tapeless formats at the moment.

Quote:
Question 4: FCP has Pro Res, would I need to get Cineform as an offline codec or is there something provided in Premiere. I edit a lot of HDCAM and tapeless so this is kind of important. Also if I got Cineform a Blackmagic card could encode an HDSDI signal using that codec right?
Cineform looks really good. I bought it last year, but am still waiting for it to work. They had a lot of issues to sort out to get it working with CS4 but it looks like they are almost done now. They have just about finished the windows version, so the mac should get an update pretty soon.
You're out of luck with Blackmagic. I'm no sure if there is a way to monitor cineform files with HDSDI on the mac. I believe that the AXIO is supported on PPro for windows and so there is a chance it works for the mac too.
With cineform (neoHD) you'll get a smooth 10bit 422 workflow with prores quality at smaller file sizes, and active metadata, meaning you'll be able to do some reasonable color correction/ image adjustment before you open PPro, and not need to do any rendering. It also accepts lux looks.
If you have final cut studio installed on the same computer as CS4 you would still also be able to edit and export prores files from within PPro.
Cineform seems to be the missing piece of the puzzle for PPro. They just need to hurry up and get it working.
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