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Old November 4th, 2004, 08:55 PM   #1
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Workflow pointers needed for newbie

hi, i am working on my first large project in premiere pro and i have questions on how to start. I have shot 8 days of a Himal Trek on 8 tapes (almost all full). The end goal is a 30 minute promo for my friend's trekking company, to be put on DVD.

I am familiar with editing in premier (mostly v6.5) and i have no problems getting output to DVD, but my questions are in regards to using bins and sequences. So far i have started to batch capture each tape into a bin called TAPES, each tape in a subbin, TAPE 1, TAPE2, etc. Looks like i don't have enough HD space for 8 hours of tape however, without some juggling. I do have a dedicated fast 40gig however where i am putting clips, auto captured scene by scene. So perhaps I need to screen and edit one tape at a time, and then use the final clips for each tape/day and then place in a sequence? Not sure i understand sequences, except that they seem like a way to group clips and apply effects to the entire sequence (cool). Is this the way u all work? Or do you work from the tapes themselves?

I do have two cameras (gs400 and xls1) and use the gs400 for the editing deck. I am a little concerned about using the tape transport system repeatdly and as we are all on a tight budget here in Nepal, I would like to reuse the tapes soon. Hmmmm...does that make sense? thanks!!!
jigs
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Old November 5th, 2004, 12:39 AM   #2
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You should play through the tapes and pick which clips you'd like to use. In the capture window, set in and out points to make clips and to build a batch capture list.

When you're done screening your footage, tell Premiere to batch capture. It should automatically control your camera and capture the clips you want. This way you only capture the clips you want, and not the entire tape.

40GB = not even 3 hours by the way. You may be very tight on hard drive space. 30 minutes of final products might mean like 1.5hours of raw footage, which can be done with 40GB.

DV = 13GB/hour (roughly)
When you format your hard drive, you get less than 40GB. Also try to leave 10% free to avoid fragmentation problems.

The utility "treesize" (google it) can help you figure out where all your hard drive space is taken.

I hope that helps.

2- Use your GS400 to capture as it's the cheaper camera. Capture quality is the same between all DV cams.

3- If you can afford an XL1s, I would try to afford more hard drive space and use only new tape (to avoid user error going over useful footage). However, you can still do your video with what you have. You shouldn't have any major problems doing so.
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Old November 9th, 2004, 03:53 AM   #3
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<<<-- Originally posted by Glenn Chan : You should play through the tapes and pick which clips you'd like to use. In the capture window, set in and out points to make clips and to build a batch capture list.

When you're done screening your footage, tell Premiere to batch capture. It should automatically control your camera and capture the clips you want. This way you only capture the clips you want, and not the entire tape.

40GB = not even 3 hours by the way. You may be very tight on hard drive space. 30 minutes of final products might mean like 1.5hours of raw footage, which can be done with 40GB.

DV = 13GB/hour (roughly)
When you format your hard drive, you get less than 40GB. Also try to leave 10% free to avoid fragmentation problems.

The utility "treesize" (google it) can help you figure out where all your hard drive space is taken.

I hope that helps.

2- Use your GS400 to capture as it's the cheaper camera. Capture quality is the same between all DV cams.

3- If you can afford an XL1s, I would try to afford more hard drive space and use only new tape (to avoid user error going over useful footage). However, you can still do your video with what you have. You shouldn't have any major problems doing so. -->>>

Thanks for all that Glenn - great advice - and i am off and rolling with just one more question about sequences - which i love - and that has to do with nesting and automatically inserting on the main edit timeline. I can't seem to select all the sequences and automatically add them like u can do with clips, with that great feature of automatically adding the default transition. I also don't understand nesting sequences after reading the help, but not sure i need to do that really.

About affording new tape and whatnot - after getting the Xls1 I am totally broke and now making promotions for the trekking industry to try and pay off the credit card. I really love the Xls1 but it's way too bulky for trekking! So so glad I have the gs400 for that :)
jigs
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Old November 9th, 2004, 03:33 PM   #4
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another approach might be to see if you can edit up the sections that are on each tape, spit 'em out as an avi to the dedicated hard drive, then cut/paste that avi to your c: drive, if you have the room for it... you can always bring it back to the dedicated drive for the final production.

it is even o.k. to leave that avi on your c: drive, because you'll be referencing it from premiere when you encode it to mpeg2 for the dvd... it's not like you need it to play back in real time.

you can also edit up sections of the dvd as avi's, and encode them to mpeg2, along with ac3 audio... then delete the source avi's... the encoded mpeg2 files are much smaller than avi's, and they can be authored into the dvd as seperate files.

i prefer to have one long mpeg2 file for dvd, tho, but you have to see what works for you... just remember to use quality blank dvd media, taiyo yuden or maxell is the best.
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Old November 9th, 2004, 05:51 PM   #5
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yes dan thanks for that!

i think i have a nice workflow now that i have discovered using sequences and bins. for every sequence i have a bin with potential clips batch captured from tape. if i run out of space i'll just export the sequence to avi and get rid of all the source on my hd. when i am done with the entire movie i am going to put all the sequences on a main timeline (wish premiere would auto-transistion between sequences as well as clips) and then spit out one avi. i then use Nero to create the menus/DVD.

i've read that aftereffects does nice DVD menus but i think that was marketing hype, as there does not seem to be a user-friendly interface there for doing so. well, not like Nero which is a no-brainer.

jigs
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Old November 10th, 2004, 11:54 AM   #6
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i haven't tried nero for menu's, what i use is dvd menu studio, from www.mediachance.com... there is a free demo, you might want to check it out when you get your budget back on track.
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Old November 11th, 2004, 12:10 AM   #7
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<<<-- Originally posted by Dan Euritt : i haven't tried nero for menu's, what i use is dvd menu studio, from www.mediachance.com... there is a free demo, you might want to check it out when you get your budget back on track. -->>>

thanks dan, i looked at dvd menu studio, and it's not even in the same class as nero. nero builds the entire dvd including menus and submenus, background, the whole sheebang, by just taking avi files and saying - make a DVD. it has severe limitations on what the menus look like and how they behave, but hey, it was free with the sony dvd burner i bought last month.

i will consider this type of tool whenever i get around to learning how to build DVDs from scratch, but right now i am trying to focus on learning how to use premier pro to create the movie in the first place - thanks so much!

jigs
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Old November 11th, 2004, 12:26 PM   #8
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i love nero! and you can't beat free.

the difference here is nero total dvd authoring vs. specializing in individual facets of dvd authoring, which is kind of what you already said... the quality comes with specializing.

for instance, since you already have premiere pro, you will want to use the mpeg2 encoder that it has, because the quality will be better, especially in two-pass mode... pretty soon you might move up to procoder, because it's an even better encoder, etc., etc., etc.

all i've ever done and sold is simple one-page menus myself, because making better menus in my market won't sell more product... but your exotic nepal location could take you in a couple of different directions, it's a fascinating concept.

you might want to also knock out a couple of short web video promo clips while you are at it.
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Old November 11th, 2004, 08:14 PM   #9
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i think u hit the nail on the head - we are market driven, and if our clients are blown away by simple menus and DVDs vs. VCDs, then perhaps that's enough. I appreciate all u said about learning to encode manually using better tools, and i have that on my list of things to learn in the future. i started another thread somewhere on nero limitations, but the end result is that nero is limited. I was wanting to animate the buttons in nero on top of an animated background, and can't figure that one out. But then again, the only DVD menus doing that are the ones from Afganistan and China that are pirated movie titles, and I am not in that market - my clients are just amazed when they see promos from small bizs in Nepal that have hi-quality video of the biz on DVD, and my INGO clients really like having the training they just paid for also delivered on a personalized DVD.

anyway, i will try premier encoder sometime in the future and i am assuming procoder is another tool sold seperatly. these software companies are so smart! there will always be a better, more expensive version of everything - forever and ever!
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Old November 15th, 2004, 01:11 AM   #10
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Part 2 - I'm back!

Okay, now i have whittled down 8 hours of tape into about 40 minutes or so of usable footage for my documentry, with all the clips arranged in bins and sequences, very nice, and i need help with the next step:

I want to voiceover the movie but i want some clips to retain original audio and some to have a mix of my voice and original audio and some to have just muzak and/or my voiceover. What's the best way to do this? I was thinking this, but please chime in:

1. remove audio from all clips that I know i won't need original audio for - leaving audio on clips that i know i want to mix.

2. Export the entire movie into one file? Or just arrange the sequences on the timeline and lay down a voice over track under that?

3. Confused. whatever the case, it seems like editing audio in premier is not going to be fun. Another "great" idea I had was to export the entire movie in DV format per step 1, then take the entire audio track for the movie and bring into Cool Edit Pro. do all the mixing with music and voice there, save the wave file back out and replace the audio timeline with the results from Cool Edit Pro 2.0

My concern there is that i have an older version of Cool Edit Pro and I have no desire to go buy Audition, but I could find a copy if it's worth the upgrade (possible better integration with Premier?)

Well, thanks so much for all ur help so far - i see a light at the end of this tunnel and oh no, it's a blinking dead battery one.
jigs
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Old November 15th, 2004, 09:31 PM   #11
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i would do number 1, then lay the voice-over underneath that in a new audio track... keep adding audio tracks as you need 'em.

your voice-over may have to be massaged in cool edit pro; noise reduction, normalize, etc., before going into premiere... a set of analog audio meters would be very helpful for all stages of the edit.
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Old November 16th, 2004, 04:12 AM   #12
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<<<-- Originally posted by Dan Euritt : i would do number 1, then lay the voice-over underneath that in a new audio track... keep adding audio tracks as you need 'em.

your voice-over may have to be massaged in cool edit pro; noise reduction, normalize, etc., before going into premiere... a set of analog audio meters would be very helpful for all stages of the edit. -->>>

thanks dan! i think i am going to try and work with all my sequences nested in one called main. (love that part of premier). The voice-over track will be one long track in main - or should i break it up to match the individual sequences?

analog meters?!? i have not seen a set of those in years. I do run everything thru my stereo/TV while editing, but not sure those meters really mean anything. i have a really low budget studio - laptop, firewire burner / digicams, and a home stereo with chinese TV as a monitor. oh, i also have an old windup stop watch, but that's the only analog equipment i own anymore.
cheers,jigs
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Old November 16th, 2004, 11:28 AM   #13
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like that stopwatch idea, lol!

it sounds like you'll have to match the audio levels between tracks by ear.

what i do is to set up the premiere capture utility for audio-only, capture the entire voice-over, then cut out the chunks i need and drop 'em into the timeline.

you will find yourself having to re-record sections of the voice-over several times, just to make sure that it's right... try stretching some pantyhose around a wire loop that is between you and the mic, which will help with popping... try to position the mic out of the direct blast of air coming out of your mouth, you kinda want to talk over the top of it.
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Old November 16th, 2004, 12:42 PM   #14
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<<<-- Originally posted by Dan Euritt : like that stopwatch idea, lol!

it sounds like you'll have to match the audio levels between tracks by ear.

what i do is to set up the premiere capture utility for audio-only, capture the entire voice-over, then cut out the chunks i need and drop 'em into the timeline.

you will find yourself having to re-record sections of the voice-over several times, just to make sure that it's right... try stretching some pantyhose around a wire loop that is between you and the mic, which will help with popping... try to position the mic out of the direct blast of air coming out of your mouth, you kinda want to talk over the top of it. -->>>

yup, that's me - 2 BIG ears and little bits inbetween. I've done voiceover before - just not in premier. i've got a great digital mike/headset but it's pretty old usb with lots of ducktape holding it together. i used to just use Cool Edit (or something like it) to get any noise out but with the digital mike not much else but my voice is ever there. however, i really like the idea of talking into panty hose, i bet that would freak the GF out. thanks for the tip!

one thing i can't figure out is where to put the voiceover - seems like it has to be within each sequence. on the main time line it's really hard to see where to line things up. but i can see problems with cutting it up and putting voice bits inside the imbedded sequences - like if i wanted to do a global change - ouch.

ps i got audition 1.5 installed and looks like Adobe did nothing but put a logo on it! i was hoping for tight intergration with premier, but i guess i'll have to wait....

well, it's fun!
jigs
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Old November 16th, 2004, 01:05 PM   #15
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Audition Integration!

i just found this in the help - but i dont understand the text - there is no "export" from Audition, I guess they mean "save the file in wave format, then import into a bin, right mouse click and say edit original." geeezzz. how hard can the help get! i'll give a try now.
jigs

----------from audition 1.5 help
Working with Adobe Premiere Pro and After Effects

If you use Adobe Premiere Pro or After Effects, you can easily remix and edit soundtracks in Adobe Audition. To do so, first configure Adobe Audition to link session files with exported audio mixdowns in WAV format. Once these files are linked, you can select an imported mixdown file in Adobe Premiere Pro or After Effects, and then remix the related session in Multitrack View, or edit the mixdown file in Edit View.

To link session files with exported audio mixdowns in WAV format:
Choose Options > Settings, and then click the Data tab.
Select Embed Project Link Data For Edit Original Functionality, and then click OK.
When you export mixdown files, select Save Extra Non-Audio Information in the Export Audio dialog box.

To remix or edit a mixdown in an Adobe Premiere Pro or After Effects project:
In the Adobe Premiere Pro or After Effects project, select the mixdown file.
Choose Edit > Edit Original.
Select one of the following, and then click OK:
Launch The Audition Multitrack Session Which Created This File.
Insert This File Into Audition's Edit View.
Remix the linked session in Multitrack View, or edit the mixdown file in Edit View.
Overwrite the original file by doing one of the following:
In Multitrack View, choose File > Export > Audio, and specify the same name and location as the original file.
In Edit View, choose File > Save.
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