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Old April 24th, 2005, 02:48 AM   #736
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file format experts - please explain PPro clip properties

I shot 24P footage with an XL2 and found that if I imported the clips into a 29.97 project, Premeire Pro got confused and did strange things when rendering sequences with those clips.

In the clip properties window, for each of my source clips, there is a section for the "AVI file" and "DV File". The AVI File section says that the AVI file is 23.976fps, while the DV File reads 29.97fps for the frame rate. I assume this means that what's on the miniDV tape is the "DV File" and the file on the disk is the "AVI file". So if I'm understanding this correctly, the footage on the tape was 29.97fps and Premiere somehow knew to capture the footage at 23.976fps.

Firstly, is this correct?

Then if that's the case, how did Premire know that the footage was 24p? Is there something encoded in the the miniDV tape data that says "Hey, I'm 24p"?

Otherwise, what is incorrect in my thinking about all of this?

Thanks,
Aaron
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Old April 24th, 2005, 06:13 AM   #737
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yeah ive been haunting the matrox site for almost a year now and nothing has changed re- availabilty..

For me, its either this, or an Avid Express Pro HD with Mojo..

consideirng the price of a digisuite these days.. i can get a full HP dual xeon Workstation + SCSI Meida drives for around 12k aus... whereas a digisuite, 2 yrs ago was twice that.. fr me, right now its all about money.
Ive got a Avid Studio SW, but im not that good at using it.. I only use it for delivery and finishing.. and i dont bother with Pro Tools coz Vegas 5 has far greater power IMO (well not greater.. but a different, more efficient workflow with native 5.1 using the same bahaviour as my old HW DD Encoders).....
Now that i think about it.. learning Avid is something i should put on my to do list.. its all about time i guess.. LOL

ill just sit back and watch it all unfold then decide.
in the meantime im gonna buy a laptop until the HVX is released...
I'll worry about workstation HW once they sort out the teething problems of the Axio, which im sure will exist...
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Old April 24th, 2005, 07:57 AM   #738
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Hi Aaron,

I can partially answer your questions, but need a little more information to make sure I fully understand the issue:
- Did you shoot 24pN (2:3) or 24pA (2:3:3:2)?
- Please describe the manner in which PPro got confused and did strange things.
- What file format and settings did you export to?
- What software did you use to view the final rendered files?

The properties that PPro read are almost certainly correct. There's a description of what happens in these posts:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=37100

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=40508

In short, the camera CCD shoots true 24fps, saves it to tape with a pull-down to 60i while flagging in subcode the "A" frame (first of 5 frames in a pull-down group), and PPro recognizes the A frame so it knows to automatically do a pull-up to use 24fps internally.

Depending on the type of file you export and the settings you use, it may either be true 24fps or pulled back up to 30fps. It is confusing...I've been trying to learn the nuances of this for months and still haven't found all the missing details.
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Old April 24th, 2005, 12:15 PM   #739
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Pete,

Thanks! From your original post, it sounds like both of us have similar questions about all of this. I know editors and filmmakers that determine their settings empirically but I'm the type that wants to know why, why, why so that I don't have to render with some combinitorial number of settings before I'm convinced that the video is going to look right.

Just knowing that there's a flag on the A frame in the miniDV tape that specifies the footage as 24P helps. Now I know that Premiere Pro isn't just magically figuring that out somehow.

So here's more details about my particular case:

- Did you shoot 24pN (2:3) or 24pA (2:3:3:2)?

I'm pretty sure I shot 24pN. I didn't camera operate, but I fairly sure that's what it was.

- Please describe the manner in which PPro got confused and did strange things.

When the 24p/16:9 footage existed in a 29.97 sequence, PPro rendered some frames in the sequence at a 4:3 ratio. I am sure that my Interpret Footage settings were at 1.2 pixel aspect ratio and that the project was set at 16:9. When I moved the same clips to a 24p project, I did not see this happen--no problems whatsoever.

So, now that I think more about this, this might make *some* sense. The AVI clips themselves are 23.976, so of course they should exist in a 24p project. (Right?) But now my question is: when I capture 24p footage (that has been converted to 29.97 "in-camera"), how do I make sure that it *stays* 29.97; i.e., how do I make PPro ignore that subcode on the A-frame and just treat the footage as normal 29.97? Must I use different capturing software? Must I then remove the subcode in the A-frame somehow so PPro doesn't make assumptions? Is there a capture setting in PPro that I just can't find? And what's better about editing your 24p footage in the editing software at 24p rather than in 29.97 anyway? (Sorry too many questions!)

- What file format and settings did you export to?
- What software did you use to view the final rendered files?

As for the "rendering" problems I had where the footage became 4:3, I noticed these in PPro--when I did just a normal "Render Timeline" (i.e., the problems were evident in the playback window). So whatever format PPro renders it's scratch/scrub stuff to, I guess that's what it was.

Perhaps once I understand all this stuff, I'll consolidate it into a single post or put on a webpage somewhere. It seems my searches on the internet for details like these haven't been too fruitful. Where's the one book that explains this stuff in detail?

Thanks for your reply!

Aaron
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Old April 25th, 2005, 04:46 AM   #740
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Change to Single Track Editing ?

I need to change from A/B Editing to Single Track. How on earth do i do this. According to books etc I have to go to the little arrow at the top right hand corner of the timeleine and choose the editing style I want. Only problem is, there isn`t a choice to change editing style. It`s not a major problem as I can obviuosly edit in any format, but I would like the choice.

Many Thanks for any help any one can offer.

Andy
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Old April 25th, 2005, 07:25 AM   #741
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Once you upgrade to PPro, single track is your only option. To toggle between the two modes in previous versions, select from the <window> menu, <workspace> then select single track editing.
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Old April 25th, 2005, 07:32 AM   #742
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Rob is right. Go waste some tape. Much of it in full manual mode and talk about your settings as you record.

Your second query with regard to the blurred background is controlling your depth of field and is done with the camera and not in post. It can be done in post, but it is painful and very time consuming using animated mattes etc. Next time out, get your f-stop to the lowest possible number without over-exposing and move back from your subject to almost the full extent of your zoom. Once you zoom in to frame up your talking head, shazam! the backgroung will reveal a nice soft blur look. Manual iris and focus only.

Good luck with your experiments. The learning curve will be fast. Enjoy!
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Old April 25th, 2005, 08:03 AM   #743
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Premiere 7.0 16:9 XL2 question

I have used premiere for 3 years, an just started using the XL2 and I have a question.

I shoot in 16:9 and capture into premiere. It looks great in the editing window but when I export it looks squashed! Anyone know how to export letter boxed?

Note: When I burn the squashed file as a letterboxed 4:3 in Adobe Encore, it looks fine on a normal TV.

I jsut want to be able to export still frames and video so it isnt squashed!

Matt
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Old April 25th, 2005, 12:38 PM   #744
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Hi Matt this sort of question has appeared a few times. Please try our search and you should come up with a few results.

If you are using Prmiere Pro then you need to start a 4:3 project, import your 16x9 clips and then use the motion control to squezze the image.

Hope this helps a little
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Old April 25th, 2005, 01:26 PM   #745
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HI Ed,
I would certainly recommend another way. Do not open a 4:3 project, but rather an Adobe widescreen project 16:9. DO not use the motion control...


I use Ppor 1.5 and this is how I run my XL2 16:9 footage. Ecerything else would be a true loss of quality.

Or did I miss the question and your answer????
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Old April 25th, 2005, 02:05 PM   #746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman
It looks great in the editing window but when I export it looks squashed!
Since I don't use a PC I can't help with the software issues, but it actually sounds like everything is behaving as it should. Anamorphic video is supposed to look squashed on a 4:3 TV, but it looks correct on a widescreen TV. If you letterbox it then you are throwing away resolution which would make it look better on a 16:9 TV.

On a DVD, the DVD player itself (or DVD playing software on a computer) is providing the letterbox during playback. This is a feature built into the hardware which can detect an anamorphic image and letterbox it for viewing on 4:3 TV's. But the actual image stored on the DVD is still squashed. DVD players have a menu option where you specify whether you have a 4:3 or a 16:9 TV. If you choose 4:3 then a letterbox will be provided. If you choose 16:9 then no processing is done, and the TV itself stretches the image to the full screen width.

Now if you just want to pull stills from the video you can resize them in Photoshop after exporting them. Change the image's pixel dimensions to 854x480 (for NTSC) and you'll be all set.

Sorry if this isn't what you're asking...
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Old April 25th, 2005, 02:52 PM   #747
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In addition to this site, you might want to check out http://www.wrigleyvideo.com/forum/index.php?act=idx

or

http://www.stevengotz.com/

They are dedicated to Adobe .
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Old April 25th, 2005, 03:39 PM   #748
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Boyd, that is the most concise answer I have ever recieved. It solved all my problems.

I thank you.
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Old April 25th, 2005, 11:37 PM   #749
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Making an animated mask in Premiere pro

Hi,
I am new to this forum, so I thought I would start it out with a question I have had for some time.
I am trying to create a catchy way of presenting the name of my production company during opening credits. I have an idea, but I'm not sure how to do it.
Here is what I am going for:
I want the name to be written across the screen, as though someone is writing it on an overhead projector, but instead of really writing, I would like the letters to be removing the black screen, and revealing a loop of footage below. So it would start with a totally black screen, then as the name is written, the action below would be revealed through the shape of the letters. Hopefully that makes sense hehe.

I am used to working in FCP at school, and only recently have I been using Premiere at home, hence the reason I am a little green. I am very familiar with photoshop though, so if necessary, I could use that to design some of the logo.

Any ideas?
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Old April 26th, 2005, 03:36 AM   #750
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Smith
HI Ed,
I would certainly recommend another way. Do not open a 4:3 project, but rather an Adobe widescreen project 16:9. DO not use the motion control...


I use Ppor 1.5 and this is how I run my XL2 16:9 footage. Ecerything else would be a true loss of quality.

Or did I miss the question and your answer????
I thought Matt was asking whether it is possible to export in letter box format, from Premiere. The only way I am aware to do it in Premiere with out cropping the footage is to squeeze the footage so that it fits into the 4:3 aspect ratio, therefore retaining the full image frame.

As Boyd has mentioned if you are exporting to DVD for 16x9, provided your MPEG file has the 16x9 flag then your DVD player will play the file letterboxed on a 4:3 TV provided the DVD player is set to do so.

It looks like that Matt has solved his problem...

Cheers,
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