Premiere CS4 Questions at DVinfo.net

Randy Sanchez · October 27th, 2009, 12:28 PM

I have been looking at the CS4 demo and wondering whether i should switch from Vegas. The only reason i am contemplating this is because i have notcied a lot less support for plugins on vegas compared to adobe.. I am particularly interested in the red giant stuff but vegas really only has looks and id like to maybe get colorista.

So im wondering a few things...

Is it possible to drag or slide audio tracks at smaller resolution than by each video frame ? I do multicamera editing of live music and i find the audio sync isnt tight enough when you just drag it frame by frame.. In vegas you can slide it without snapping at all and get it exactly positioned how you want it next to the video...

Also i usually edit 4 to 6 cameras over mixed audio.. Im wondering whats the best way to do this in Premiere ? I notcied the multicam option only supports up to 4 cameras.. In Vegas i usually just load all my clips on tracks and then add a video track above them.. I treat this track as the master and i drag clips to it after previewing them on the lower tracks.. Once they are all in sync its easy for me to just scan the other tracks at the same point on the timeline and drag them up to the top track.. IS this how you would do it in premiere ?

Also whats the reason all the tutorials suggest setting in and out points on the clips before entering them on the timeline ? Doesnt that just restrict you from dragging out the edges of the clip if you need more of the scene during a fade ?

Battle Vaughan · October 27th, 2009, 02:39 PM

In PPro you can move without snapping, just turn snapping off. If you want to move the audio separately from it's matching video unlink that audio and video. Setting in and out points on a clip doesn't restrict extending the ends, it just is a more efficient way of organizing your time line...otherwise you have long handles to adjust out of the way. You import the full clip, you just see what's between the in and out points, but the rest of the clip is there.

As to the multicam problem, I don't see why the way you are doing it in Vegas wouldn't work in PPro as well. The multicam feature is generally cutting between synchronous cameras, much as you would do with live switching, but you can edit all the tracks you want synching them manually..../Battle Vaughan

Marcello Mazzilli · October 27th, 2009, 03:46 PM

For your audio question. Yes.. in Premiere you can switch to audio mode editing in the timeline.. This will let you edit in thousands of a second instead of frames so that you can be very precise on your audio editing. I think this is what you wanted to do.

Also.. yes there is multicam. It's easy to use but a little demanding on resources if you are doing it in HD. But sure you an use the method you are using in Vegas.

Michael Wisniewski · October 27th, 2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Sanchez

Also whats the reason all the tutorials suggest setting in and out points on the clips before entering them on the timeline ? Doesnt that just restrict you from dragging out the edges of the clip if you need more of the scene during a fade ?

Once a clip is on the timeline, it works the same in Vegas, PPro, and for that matter FCP - drag the ends of the clip to shorten or lengthen it. It's just that in Vegas, it's always been very convenient to drag and drop the clips directly from the hard disk onto the timeline, and then adjust your end points, by dragging. In the Vegas world, this is one of the most common methods of editing.

PPro and FCP users are more likely to use 3 point editing, where you load up a clip, set the I/O points and then add it to the timeline. It's just one of those odd quirks where that's the way it's "generally done" in those NLEs. Though if you want, 3 point editing in Vegas, it can be done very nicely using the Trimmer. FCP makes it very inconvenient to drag and drop video files straight from the hard disk, it has a lot of "requirements" about how it prefers it's video to be formatted etc. Thus the extra prep work to get the video onto the timeline. PPro used to be like FCP, but it's much better nowadays about reading all kinds of video file types and allowing you to throw them directly onto the timeline. That's one of the nice things about PPro, you get a little bit of both worlds all wrapped into one.

Marcello Mazzilli · October 27th, 2009, 05:33 PM

To me it depends what you are editing. If I shoot with my Sony Z1 usually I capture the whole tape, while if I use my HM700 I have single clips to edit. If I work with one long clip I do a pre selection IN-OUT and drag to the timeline.... Still.. it doesn't have to be an exact cut.. just a rough cut and then you can do an exact edit on the timeline.

I am trying Final Cut (don't know Vegas) and the main difference I find is the attitude towards cutting (ctrl + X) and inserting... For example.. in Final Cut if you slowmotion a clip.. everithing on the right of that clip will move right and this is really ridiculous. You always need to move the clip at the end, slowmotion it, and move it back in the timeline.

Premiere as a good workflow to me.. maybe the best. But the main problem with Premiere, specially in the Mac World, is the performance. You get crashes much more often than Final Cut, and also the speed of the playback (stop-play stop, etc..) is not what I would call Broadcast. Some is Adobe's fault... some is Apple's that obviously wants to keep the best for FCP (like Pro-Res.. etc)

M

Randy Sanchez · October 27th, 2009, 11:05 PM

i didnt think there was any real reason for the in and out settings before adding to the timeline.. I appreciate thsi way makes things neater but i also think it slows the workflow a bit to be inspecting everything first, especially if you are likely to edit the clip once it is on the timeline anyway.. But thats just me, im happy to accept its a way other might like to work.

I will try the editing the same way i do with vegas and see how i go.. As long as i can line audio up accurately i will be happy to give it a fair run to see.. Im really disappointed Vegas doesnt have the plugin support like the other programs.. It makes it feel like a bit of a novice program.. But for ease of use and stability and all round speed, its generally pretty solid.

Also is there anyway to set up video crossfades in premiere without having to drag a transition each time ? I like in vegas how you can just push two clips together and they instantly default to a fade.. It would be great if there was a way to set a default transition in premiere and then each time you push clips together it used that transition type... Dragging a transition over each time slows it down a bit more

Adam Gold · October 27th, 2009, 11:36 PM

You can set the default transition to anything you like in Premiere, and then PgDn to get to each cut and CTRL+D to place the transition. Quickest way I know.

Marcello Mazzilli · October 27th, 2009, 11:56 PM

Not as far as I know. Also.. no keyboard shortcut for applying a crossfade or similar.

Still.. you have to think of Premiere not like (not just) an editing software. It does much more thus some simple editing operations can be (little) slower. It interacts with After FX so you can switch live between contents in an After FX Composition and contents in a Timeline. It has powerfull overlay functions that make it much easier (than Final Cut in example) to work with layers over layers, with files from different sources and with different sizes, etc...
AT least.. that's my idea of Premiere. As I said.. lacks a little stability and speed for these reasons (and for other)

Randy Sanchez · October 28th, 2009, 12:39 AM

Adam... That sounds fairly fast, I will try what you said..

Marcello.. yes i like how it interacts with After Effects, thats a big part of the reason why im thinking of switching.. I do wish it had that simple crossfade between clips when dragged over one another that is a big part of how i work and it really speeds things up i think.. But i will try what Adam has said and i'll see if i can get used to it... I just think anything that reduces the amount of mouse clicks or key strokes you have to make is a good thing..

The biggest thing for me was getting the audio and video sync'ed really well, but now it looks as though i can do that its encouraging.. When you say stability.. Do you find you have a lot of crashes ? Im on PC so maybe its more Premiere on Mac as opposed to PC ? I would hope its not unstable as ive gotten used to being fairly stable in vegas.. Dont want to change and suddenly find things keep crashing..

Brian Barkley · October 28th, 2009, 07:43 AM

Sounds like you pay close attention to audio. You might think of purchasing this terrific audio software. It is superior to some aspects of Soundbooth, especially in removing unwanted noises, such as A-C hum, train whistles, traffic noise, etc. And it is cheap at only $350.

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/rx/

Randy Sanchez · October 28th, 2009, 08:52 AM

Brian... I dont need that much restoration for what i do.. The audio is recorded onto 24 track at 24/48 and i mix it afterwards.. Its things like compressors and EQ's and reverbs that i need more often..

I will still mix audio in vegas as i am really comfortable with that.. I just need to get access to better plugins for video.. iZotope do make some cool things though, they are one of the better audio companies.

Marcello Mazzilli · October 28th, 2009, 11:19 AM

Premiere is more PC than MAC really.. On MAC I think they still have some known bugs and Snow Leopard didn't change much. Actually I push it quite to the limit. I edit all in HD with no accelerator card.. sometimes 4 HD multicamera... etc... Bt sometimes it crashes when you do normal things. If you zoom out quickly the timeline and you are in icon mode (you have a little frame reppresenting each clip on the timeline) it tryies to draw all frames together and crashes. You need to get used to it. There is a sort of joke between me and my assistanto 'cause it almost never crashes with me and always with him...

Abdifatah Osman · November 3rd, 2009, 11:59 PM

Can't play videos probably audio is out of sync.Can anyone recommend a good codec pack becaus it's a codec issue

Brian MacKenzie · November 10th, 2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battle Vaughan

Setting in and out points on a clip doesn't restrict extending the ends, it just is a more efficient way of organizing your time line..

can you please explain what you mean? i have never used in and out points...how do you personally use them to organize?

Battle Vaughan · November 11th, 2009, 03:55 AM

What I mean is, you select the part of the clip you want to put on the timeline (although the entire clip is still there). When you are assembling a timeline, having lots of full-length clips on the timeline would be inefficient and confusing...so the conventional wisdom is, do a rough cut with in/out points in the viewer, insert the clip on the timeline, move on to the next clip, etc. Then when you have your rough-cut clips in place and in proper order, it's fairly easy to fine-tune the transitions....otherwise, you could have an unmanageably long timeline for no real gain....but, it's just a preference, you can certainly put the whole raw take on the timeline and work with it there if you choose to.../BV

October 27th, 2009, 12:28 PM	#1
Randy Sanchez Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 109	Premiere CS4 Questions I have been looking at the CS4 demo and wondering whether i should switch from Vegas. The only reason i am contemplating this is because i have notcied a lot less support for plugins on vegas compared to adobe.. I am particularly interested in the red giant stuff but vegas really only has looks and id like to maybe get colorista. So im wondering a few things... Is it possible to drag or slide audio tracks at smaller resolution than by each video frame ? I do multicamera editing of live music and i find the audio sync isnt tight enough when you just drag it frame by frame.. In vegas you can slide it without snapping at all and get it exactly positioned how you want it next to the video... Also i usually edit 4 to 6 cameras over mixed audio.. Im wondering whats the best way to do this in Premiere ? I notcied the multicam option only supports up to 4 cameras.. In Vegas i usually just load all my clips on tracks and then add a video track above them.. I treat this track as the master and i drag clips to it after previewing them on the lower tracks.. Once they are all in sync its easy for me to just scan the other tracks at the same point on the timeline and drag them up to the top track.. IS this how you would do it in premiere ? Also whats the reason all the tutorials suggest setting in and out points on the clips before entering them on the timeline ? Doesnt that just restrict you from dragging out the edges of the clip if you need more of the scene during a fade ?

October 28th, 2009, 07:43 AM	#10
Brian Barkley Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Overland Park, KS Posts: 233	Sounds like you pay close attention to audio. You might think of purchasing this terrific audio software. It is superior to some aspects of Soundbooth, especially in removing unwanted noises, such as A-C hum, train whistles, traffic noise, etc. And it is cheap at only $350. http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/rx/ Last edited by Brian Barkley; October 28th, 2009 at 07:43 AM. Reason: typo

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October 27th, 2009, 02:39 PM	#2
Battle Vaughan Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, FL USA Posts: 1,505	In PPro you can move without snapping, just turn snapping off. If you want to move the audio separately from it's matching video unlink that audio and video. Setting in and out points on a clip doesn't restrict extending the ends, it just is a more efficient way of organizing your time line...otherwise you have long handles to adjust out of the way. You import the full clip, you just see what's between the in and out points, but the rest of the clip is there. As to the multicam problem, I don't see why the way you are doing it in Vegas wouldn't work in PPro as well. The multicam feature is generally cutting between synchronous cameras, much as you would do with live switching, but you can edit all the tracks you want synching them manually..../Battle Vaughan

October 27th, 2009, 03:46 PM	#3
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	For your audio question. Yes.. in Premiere you can switch to audio mode editing in the timeline.. This will let you edit in thousands of a second instead of frames so that you can be very precise on your audio editing. I think this is what you wanted to do. Also.. yes there is multicam. It's easy to use but a little demanding on resources if you are doing it in HD. But sure you an use the method you are using in Vegas.

October 27th, 2009, 05:33 PM	#5
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	To me it depends what you are editing. If I shoot with my Sony Z1 usually I capture the whole tape, while if I use my HM700 I have single clips to edit. If I work with one long clip I do a pre selection IN-OUT and drag to the timeline.... Still.. it doesn't have to be an exact cut.. just a rough cut and then you can do an exact edit on the timeline. I am trying Final Cut (don't know Vegas) and the main difference I find is the attitude towards cutting (ctrl + X) and inserting... For example.. in Final Cut if you slowmotion a clip.. everithing on the right of that clip will move right and this is really ridiculous. You always need to move the clip at the end, slowmotion it, and move it back in the timeline. Premiere as a good workflow to me.. maybe the best. But the main problem with Premiere, specially in the Mac World, is the performance. You get crashes much more often than Final Cut, and also the speed of the playback (stop-play stop, etc..) is not what I would call Broadcast. Some is Adobe's fault... some is Apple's that obviously wants to keep the best for FCP (like Pro-Res.. etc) M

October 27th, 2009, 11:05 PM	#6
Randy Sanchez Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 109	i didnt think there was any real reason for the in and out settings before adding to the timeline.. I appreciate thsi way makes things neater but i also think it slows the workflow a bit to be inspecting everything first, especially if you are likely to edit the clip once it is on the timeline anyway.. But thats just me, im happy to accept its a way other might like to work. I will try the editing the same way i do with vegas and see how i go.. As long as i can line audio up accurately i will be happy to give it a fair run to see.. Im really disappointed Vegas doesnt have the plugin support like the other programs.. It makes it feel like a bit of a novice program.. But for ease of use and stability and all round speed, its generally pretty solid. Also is there anyway to set up video crossfades in premiere without having to drag a transition each time ? I like in vegas how you can just push two clips together and they instantly default to a fade.. It would be great if there was a way to set a default transition in premiere and then each time you push clips together it used that transition type... Dragging a transition over each time slows it down a bit more

October 27th, 2009, 11:36 PM	#7
Adam Gold Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Woodinville, WA USA Posts: 3,467	You can set the default transition to anything you like in Premiere, and then PgDn to get to each cut and CTRL+D to place the transition. Quickest way I know.

October 27th, 2009, 11:56 PM	#8
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	Not as far as I know. Also.. no keyboard shortcut for applying a crossfade or similar. Still.. you have to think of Premiere not like (not just) an editing software. It does much more thus some simple editing operations can be (little) slower. It interacts with After FX so you can switch live between contents in an After FX Composition and contents in a Timeline. It has powerfull overlay functions that make it much easier (than Final Cut in example) to work with layers over layers, with files from different sources and with different sizes, etc... AT least.. that's my idea of Premiere. As I said.. lacks a little stability and speed for these reasons (and for other)

October 28th, 2009, 12:39 AM	#9
Randy Sanchez Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 109	Adam... That sounds fairly fast, I will try what you said.. Marcello.. yes i like how it interacts with After Effects, thats a big part of the reason why im thinking of switching.. I do wish it had that simple crossfade between clips when dragged over one another that is a big part of how i work and it really speeds things up i think.. But i will try what Adam has said and i'll see if i can get used to it... I just think anything that reduces the amount of mouse clicks or key strokes you have to make is a good thing.. The biggest thing for me was getting the audio and video sync'ed really well, but now it looks as though i can do that its encouraging.. When you say stability.. Do you find you have a lot of crashes ? Im on PC so maybe its more Premiere on Mac as opposed to PC ? I would hope its not unstable as ive gotten used to being fairly stable in vegas.. Dont want to change and suddenly find things keep crashing..

October 28th, 2009, 08:52 AM	#11
Randy Sanchez Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 109	Brian... I dont need that much restoration for what i do.. The audio is recorded onto 24 track at 24/48 and i mix it afterwards.. Its things like compressors and EQ's and reverbs that i need more often.. I will still mix audio in vegas as i am really comfortable with that.. I just need to get access to better plugins for video.. iZotope do make some cool things though, they are one of the better audio companies.

October 28th, 2009, 11:19 AM	#12
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	Premiere is more PC than MAC really.. On MAC I think they still have some known bugs and Snow Leopard didn't change much. Actually I push it quite to the limit. I edit all in HD with no accelerator card.. sometimes 4 HD multicamera... etc... Bt sometimes it crashes when you do normal things. If you zoom out quickly the timeline and you are in icon mode (you have a little frame reppresenting each clip on the timeline) it tryies to draw all frames together and crashes. You need to get used to it. There is a sort of joke between me and my assistanto 'cause it almost never crashes with me and always with him...

November 3rd, 2009, 11:59 PM	#13
Abdifatah Osman Tourist Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: London, England Posts: 3	Can't play videos probably audio is out of sync.Can anyone recommend a good codec pack becaus it's a codec issue

November 11th, 2009, 03:55 AM	#15
Battle Vaughan Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, FL USA Posts: 1,505	What I mean is, you select the part of the clip you want to put on the timeline (although the entire clip is still there). When you are assembling a timeline, having lots of full-length clips on the timeline would be inefficient and confusing...so the conventional wisdom is, do a rough cut with in/out points in the viewer, insert the clip on the timeline, move on to the next clip, etc. Then when you have your rough-cut clips in place and in proper order, it's fairly easy to fine-tune the transitions....otherwise, you could have an unmanageably long timeline for no real gain....but, it's just a preference, you can certainly put the whole raw take on the timeline and work with it there if you choose to.../BV