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Old June 23rd, 2011, 01:38 PM   #16
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

I have not idea, sorry.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:07 PM   #17
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

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Originally Posted by Justin Benn View Post
When one adds in third party video filter plugins, into which folder do they go? I've added Red Giant's free Colorista and LUT buddy.
You will find them in the Video Effects folder in the Effects panel. (Tip: If you know the name, just type it in the search field and it will be there for you! :) )
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 03:55 PM   #18
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

There is a bunch of things that can certainly be improved in Premiere. What I think is better in FCP is the ability to summon many views of a project. In Premiere you are limited to a single reference monitor (plus standard viewer), so your comparison options in color correction are not that great. There's also one huge bummer: the scopes that you can invoke are not live, and lack typical histogram (especially on Mac, more later).

In terms of Color correction, Premiere could use something akin to Avid's layer and CC mode. Right now it is all effects, and it can be tiresome sometimes. Three-way CC, and general look of CC color wheels is a little bit different than what you are used to with FCP/Avid, and the tools could be much more streamlined. They lack for example the "copy to next" icon that FCP has, you have to use manual copy/paste for that. Secondaries are also quite troublesome. There are plugins for that (Colorista for example) but still.

I think there are less basic effects in PPro, than in FCP, and you can't for example apply a transition to multiple clips on the timeline or create a transition template to apply it. Also there is only a single apply default transition shortcut key, which really sometimes slows down editing process. The length of the default transition is for reason unknown set in the preferences.

Speed ramping in FCP 7 is something that I would love to see in Premiere, as well as Vegas-style or even Soundtrack Pro style manipulation of audio crossfades, but I'm not really counting on the last one to come to pass soon, since it would require important interface rewrite.

Timeline operations on Premiere are totally customizable with keys, all tools are available either straight with a keypress or with a modifier key in the standard mode, and IMHO leave nothing to be desired except that the playback does continue while you make changes. Background rendering would be nice addition as well.

All these however are a minor nuisance in comparison to other problems of other editors that I had experience with (FCP, a little Avid, a little Edius).

Now, Premiere on Mac - it is not necessarily less stable, it is just less responsive in terms of interface. On PC you get instant response, in Mac, there is a very slight but noticeable lag for some things. It might be because we're running it on Mac 1,1 but it is a general impression that I do keep on having. I hope others can confirm or not my experience.

There is one effect that is seriously crippled on Mac, and it is the basic levels command. On PC you get the histogram picture and controls, while on Mac you only get separate controls for gamma and such. It makes the levels tool almost useless for me on the Mac, and I resort to Fast Color Corrector that has similar controls as sliders, and I am still missing the proper histogram display.

Should one buy a PC or Mac - this is exactly the question that we are asking ourselves now. We have an outside editor who works in FCP, and for this reason we're keeping FCP to finish her projects or to make a seamless transition to Premiere (XML import could be much improved, because it really does not resolve some important basic stuff like additive dissolve). After what I read on FCP X however I will be pushing for the total switch to Premiere though, because there is no way that the new FCP is going to fit into our workflow at all.

We're waiting for the supposed new Mac Pros to be presented in August (that's the rumor that I heard, but I can't remember where) to keep all our options open, but if Apple doesn't show anything, we'll be seriously considering PC only workflow - cheaper, more efficient, more robust, and much less hassle.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 04:05 PM   #19
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

One last thing about the misunderstandings on Adobe pricing policy. There are four ways you can obtain the software, and you can choose between them, you are not limited to any:

1. Pay full price for the whole thing, then pay for the upgrades, ie. the traditional way.
2. Get educational licence, pay much less (and I mean *much*).
3. Subscribe for twelve months for 5% of the price, billed monthly.
4. Subscribe for any given month for 7.5% of the price, no obligations at all.

The points 3 and 4 are directed towards startups and small business that do not have money to shell out at the beginning for the software, and is not certain about future revenues.

IMHO this is a very flexible policy that allows people to choose what tools they use and when.
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Old June 23rd, 2011, 11:34 PM   #20
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

Good to know. As for Mac v PC, I switched TO a mac 'cause I was curious about the stability/ease of use etc. after I found out my Dell was ailing, and FCP seemed like the natural NLE to go with since I had used it before.

I"m somewhat locked in now as I do like those things about the Mac (stuff just working, etc.), and I have this $500 Apogee audio interface that ONLY works with macs. So there's that. Plus other software I've bought for the Mac and wouldn't want to rebuy.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 04:38 PM   #21
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

Thanks again, Bart and Barry, for these precious comments.
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Old June 24th, 2011, 05:35 PM   #22
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Walczak View Post
]The points 3 and 4 are directed towards startups and small business that do not have money to shell out at the beginning for the software, and is not certain about future revenues.

IMHO this is a very flexible policy that allows people to choose what tools they use and when.
To be honest, I hadn't thought about it from that perspective, but true. These options might also be useful when there is a temporary surge in the number of seats required.

One other point about the subscriptions is that they include not just updates, but any and all version upgrades that occur during the term of the subscription. Adobe really is giving people a lot of options.
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Old June 25th, 2011, 12:45 AM   #23
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

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Originally Posted by Bart Walczak View Post

Now, Premiere on Mac - it is not necessarily less stable, it is just less responsive in terms of interface. On PC you get instant response, in Mac, there is a very slight but noticeable lag for some things. It might be because we're running it on Mac 1,1 but it is a general impression that I do keep on having. I hope others can confirm or not my experience.
Bart, it would be good if you'f post your experiences with regard to the lag in this thread on the Adobe forums:
Adobe Forums: PPro CS5 GUI on mac really jerky

It doesn't seem to be affecting all mac users, but there are a number of us who are seeing it.
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Old June 25th, 2011, 01:41 AM   #24
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Walczak View Post
There is a bunch of things that can certainly be improved in Premiere. What I think is better in FCP is the ability to summon many views of a project. In Premiere you are limited to a single reference monitor (plus standard viewer), so your comparison options in color correction are not that great. There's also one huge bummer: the scopes that you can invoke are not live, and lack typical histogram (especially on Mac, more later).

In terms of Color correction, Premiere could use something akin to Avid's layer and CC mode. Right now it is all effects, and it can be tiresome sometimes. Three-way CC, and general look of CC color wheels is a little bit different than what you are used to with FCP/Avid, and the tools could be much more streamlined. They lack for example the "copy to next" icon that FCP has, you have to use manual copy/paste for that. Secondaries are also quite troublesome. There are plugins for that (Colorista for example) but still.

I think there are less basic effects in PPro, than in FCP, and you can't for example apply a transition to multiple clips on the timeline or create a transition template to apply it. Also there is only a single apply default transition shortcut key, which really sometimes slows down editing process. The length of the default transition is for reason unknown set in the preferences.

Speed ramping in FCP 7 is something that I would love to see in Premiere, as well as Vegas-style or even Soundtrack Pro style manipulation of audio crossfades, but I'm not really counting on the last one to come to pass soon, since it would require important interface rewrite.

Timeline operations on Premiere are totally customizable with keys, all tools are available either straight with a keypress or with a modifier key in the standard mode, and IMHO leave nothing to be desired except that the playback does continue while you make changes. Background rendering would be nice addition as well.

All these however are a minor nuisance in comparison to other problems of other editors that I had experience with (FCP, a little Avid, a little Edius).

Now, Premiere on Mac - it is not necessarily less stable, it is just less responsive in terms of interface. On PC you get instant response, in Mac, there is a very slight but noticeable lag for some things. It might be because we're running it on Mac 1,1 but it is a general impression that I do keep on having. I hope others can confirm or not my experience.

There is one effect that is seriously crippled on Mac, and it is the basic levels command. On PC you get the histogram picture and controls, while on Mac you only get separate controls for gamma and such. It makes the levels tool almost useless for me on the Mac, and I resort to Fast Color Corrector that has similar controls as sliders, and I am still missing the proper histogram display.

Should one buy a PC or Mac - this is exactly the question that we are asking ourselves now. We have an outside editor who works in FCP, and for this reason we're keeping FCP to finish her projects or to make a seamless transition to Premiere (XML import could be much improved, because it really does not resolve some important basic stuff like additive dissolve). After what I read on FCP X however I will be pushing for the total switch to Premiere though, because there is no way that the new FCP is going to fit into our workflow at all.

We're waiting for the supposed new Mac Pros to be presented in August (that's the rumor that I heard, but I can't remember where) to keep all our options open, but if Apple doesn't show anything, we'll be seriously considering PC only workflow - cheaper, more efficient, more robust, and much less hassle.
Hi Bart,

I'd like to clarify some of the issues you mentioned.

1) All Scopes are live within the Program Monitor (I just checked). There is another window you can open, the Reference Monitor, which I always have open for Scopes. This monitor is not live but updates immediately after stopping playback. You can have the Reference Monitor 'ganged' to the Program Monitor so it moves along with it or you can move the timeline independent of the Program Monitor by deselecting the 'gang to...'.

2) For CC and grading, Premiere is certainly capable but anything beyond simple CC'ing, I go into AE.

3) The Default Transition can be changed and its default length can be changed as well by right-clicking on the Effects tab or you can assign a shortcut to it. Same goes for the default audio transition. Also, you can select several clips and 'Apply Default Transitions to Selection' under the Sequence button or setup a shortcut key.

4) When you say that background rendering would be nice, what exactly do you mean? I guess that FCP requires a lot of rendering of effects and clips so you would render that in the background while being able to keep working. Is that correct? Personally, I rarely have too many effects on a clip that the hardware acceleration and my i7 CPU cannot handle playing live.

Personally, the speed of the Adobe workflow is what keeps me buying more seats rather than Media Composer as I am all PC for editing. The ability to seamlessly go into AE and have the AE comps immediately show in Premiere is such a time saver and it allows me to be more creative.

Something most people don't comment on is their Titling tools, and from what I have heard, Premiere is light years better than FCP.

As for PC vs Mac: I would look at what software you currently need and might need in the future in addition to which components you need to stuff inside. I prefer PC because Apple decided to downgrade its Mac Pro by limiting the number of ram slots to 8 (dual-CPU) and 4 (single CPU) whereas every other manufacturer has at least 12 for dual-CPU and 6 for single CPU. Also, you only get 4 PCIe slots in a Mac Pro whereas the norm is 7 slots in a PC (although the length and bandwidth varies between models). I have a 12-core HP Z800 which has 6 PCIe slots and one PCI slot, and every slot is full except the PCI; although, I use that empty slot for my raid card's battery backup. I couldn't do all of this with a Mac Pro because it lacks the PCIe slots. I can't say enough good things about my HP Z800. At least in the US, you can get 25% off the price on HP's business PCs (Z200, Z400, Z600, Z800). All you do is configure your PC on their site, submit it to a salesperson, and then someone will email you a quote. As with Dell, Apple, HP and others, order ram and hard drives from somewhere else due to price gouging.
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Old June 25th, 2011, 02:53 AM   #25
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kalle View Post
1) All Scopes are live within the Program Monitor (I just checked). There is another window you can open, the Reference Monitor, which I always have open for Scopes. This monitor is not live but updates immediately after stopping playback. You can have the Reference Monitor 'ganged' to the Program Monitor so it moves along with it or you can move the timeline independent of the Program Monitor by deselecting the 'gang to...'.
This is exactly what I wrote, you're still limited to one viewer + reference monitor (which I also always run with scopes). You can be creative and open a sequence in source monitor as well (via ctrl+click), but still, the scopes do not update during playback (FCP ones do, and I really wish that Premiere would change it as well), and for CC reference it is often still not enough.

Quote:
2) For CC and grading, Premiere is certainly capable but anything beyond simple CC'ing, I go into AE.
Of course. But when I have 60 minutes of feature, going to AE for color correction is a PITA, especially since AE unfortunately disregards CC effects that I apply in Premiere.

Quote:
3) The Default Transition can be changed and its default length can be changed as well by right-clicking on the Effects tab or you can assign a shortcut to it. Same goes for the default audio transition. Also, you can select several clips and 'Apply Default Transitions to Selection' under the Sequence button or setup a shortcut key.
I forgot about that last option, you're right. However, what I'm missing is this: I want to create a diagonal wipe with 5 pixel border and apply it to 4 clips. I can only apply basic wipe, and have to change the settings on each transition. Also, I often use very short audio transitions alongside with longer ones. It would be great to have a possibility to assign a shortcut to each of them.

Quote:
4) When you say that background rendering would be nice, what exactly do you mean? I guess that FCP requires a lot of rendering of effects and clips so you would render that in the background while being able to keep working. Is that correct? Personally, I rarely have too many effects on a clip that the hardware acceleration and my i7 CPU cannot handle playing live.
Dynamic link? Yes, Premiere does handle a lot of stuff in the real time, but there are times that it doesn't, especially if you're not running i7. Also, BlackMagic tends to stop playback when it can't output full resolution, and Premiere often handles real time by reducing resolution by half.

Quote:
Something most people don't comment on is their Titling tools, and from what I have heard, Premiere is light years better than FCP.
Yes, this, plus better handling of psd files, and psd sequences as well. I would welcome keyframing in titler, like Avid has, instead of creating layers of titles or going to AE, but the tool is quite good as it is.

Quote:
As for PC vs Mac: I would look at what software you currently need and might need in the future in addition to which components you need to stuff inside.
Yes, certainly. This is why we're still undecided. We have a little bit of time still, so we'll see.
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Old June 25th, 2011, 03:30 AM   #26
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

You said that scopes are not live in Premiere, but in the Program Monitor, they are.

You can open a sequence into the Source Monitor. You can also double click a clip on the timeline and it opens in the Source monitor.

A work-around that I use is to create a custom effect for the transition and save it. However, I also would like to save custom transitions like you.

I hope this helps :)
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Old June 25th, 2011, 07:50 AM   #27
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

Thanks Steve, I'll check it out.
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Old June 25th, 2011, 05:50 PM   #28
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

After spending several days reading reviews and feedback in several forums and on the App Store, I have decided to move to Adobe. Since I already had Photoshop CS4 for stills (which I don't use much since I got Lightroom), I was able to upgrade to the Production Premium bundle for $1,100.00.

My question is this - can I load selected programs from the bundle on both a MacPro and a Macbook Pro without violating the license agreement, so long as I use the software on one or the other at any given time?
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Old June 25th, 2011, 06:42 PM   #29
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

The direct answer is "no" but the practical answer is "yes." How's that? Although the EULA does not allow a user to split a single installation across two machines, you are allowed to have two installations (eg main editing box and laptop) as long as you use only one at a time. Both will activate.

I do full installs so I'm not 100% sure, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't choose different configurations for the two installations. You're given the choice of which applications in the suite to install during the setup. So you'd be legal since only you would be using the software on only one or the other of your installations at a given time.

PS: Richard, have you already made your purchase? I hope not because one of our DVinfo sponsors, Videoguys, has a cross-grade discount from FCP down to $799 until the end of the month. That is a heck of a great deal.
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Old June 26th, 2011, 08:08 PM   #30
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Re: Migrating from Final Cut to Premiere: any advice?

I placed my order on the Adobe website on Saturday. It is Sunday evening and my order is still "pending". I stupidly thought that Adobe's web-based, on-line order process was actually a web-based on-line order process. I will try to cancel the order early tomorrow morning.
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