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Old May 15th, 2012, 02:36 AM   #16
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Re: CS6 Cloud subscription = Brilliance?

Sorry, not trying to be argumentative here, but I'm just not a fan of 'the cloud' concept. Never have been, never will be. It's like renting a house vs. owning, or maybe a better analogy would be leasing a car instead of buying one outright. Leasing a car means, you are never going to actually own it, and you will ALWAYS have a monthly payment.

I guess, if you know ahead of time that you just HAVE to have a new car every two years, you might as well lease, because you will always have a monthly car payment. I prefer to buy a good, used car outright with cash, and use it like crazy for as long as it will last. Guess I'm cheap. I also don't like the idea of being forced to connect to the internet to keep my NLE working. But, that may be because I live in Alaska, and there are places I go, which have no internet access.
I use FCP Studio 3, Adobe CS 6, and even a little FCP X (trial) just to learn it. The day Adobe ever goes to a total 'cloud' based service (meaning you have to 'rent' the software) is the day they will totally and entirely lose me as a customer. I know they have not done that, they have both 'cloud' based options as well as the traditional 'buy the software' option. But the rumors I have been hearing, is that they want to 'nudge' people toward the 'cloud' based system for the eventual 'phase out' of the traditional outright purchase. If they do that, I will either use old school FCP 7 or go to FXP X if I have to (which is why I'm trying to learn it).

I'm just not down with the whole monthly payment scheme.....which is because I do NOT upgrade every time there is a new upgrade. I went from FCP 2, to FCP 4, to FCP 7, so only upgraded 3 times over the life of FCP. Now starting to learn CS6, because it seems more like FCP 7 than FCP X does, I start hearing the rumors about the eventual 'total move to the cloud' of Adobe. Made me think maybe I should have went a different direction. But rumors are just that, and hopefully Adobe will keep doing business in a way to satisfy both types of customers.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 02:40 AM   #17
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Re: CS6 Cloud subscription = Brilliance?

I understand your point, Gabe. I don't necessarily disagree with you.

But I just want to point out that once Creative Cloud is installed on a computer, it doesn't need to be connected to the Internet in order to use the software locally. You have to connect it to the Internet every 30 days to revalidate your subscription, but that's all. So you can use it on, say, a laptop that is nowhere near the Internet as long as you're returning home once a month.

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Old May 15th, 2012, 03:46 AM   #18
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Re: CS6 Cloud subscription = Brilliance?

Yeah, that was the way I understood it as well. So, for 99.9% of the population, no big deal. For me, could be a VERY big deal. Because it is very possible that I could end up somewhere with no internet access for longer than 30 days. My parents home is 'off the grid' they do have power (solar and diesel generator) so I am able to use my computer and charge batteries for my FS100 when I am there, but it could mean I would not be able to edit. Lots of places in my state with no internet access, where I have shot (Iditarod Trail, out on my brother's fishing boat, lots of small villages here don't have internet.) My guess is that yes, part of the 'cloud' based subscription is for 'recurring' and more predictable revenue, but another part is to combat piracy (which is one reason you need to connect to the internet every so often.)

Can't blame them if so, Adobe needs to make business decisions that are best for their company....just like I have to do for mine, just so happens that the 'cloud' doesn't fit well with my business. But for a whole lot of people, I bet it will work great, and probably help Adobe make the money to keep the
products getting better, so that's a good thing.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 03:51 AM   #19
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Re: CS6 Cloud subscription = Brilliance?

Adobe has always offered the boxed version, and they're still offering it. As long as they're not removing that, then I don't see the problem. Creative Cloud is a bloody good deal, especially for people who need multiple components of it. Or for people like me who'd like to install it at home and work from home, but can't personally afford the boxed version. It's worth $50 a month to me to be able to do my work at home in my sweatpants without distraction.

When you buy the software, you're buying the right to use it for the rest of your life. Although no doubt one day there will be better software available, it's never going to get any worse. It will still function normally 20 years from now.

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Old May 15th, 2012, 04:06 AM   #20
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Re: CS6 Cloud subscription = Brilliance?

Yeah, that's one of the pluses of buying outright in my opinion, I still use FCP 7 more than any other NLE at this time, and if I had to, could fire up my old powerbook and cut something on FCP 4. Something better can come out, but just like with cars, just because there is a newer, flashier version doesn't mean what you have doesn't work. The article I read was talking about the possibility that Adobe will transition to a 'total cloud' based model. Of course no one knows what will happen, there's just a lot of speculation out there. I remember when FCP X was coming out, there, was a lot of speculation about 'Apple abandoning pro users.' Did they?

It's a matter of opinion I guess, but the speculation made a lot of editors nervous. And so this speculation about Adobe moving to total cloud based service makes me nervous. Might never happen, as you say they offer both services now, which is a win win in my book. Just some random thoughts. By the way, if you haven't read it yet, here is one of many articles I've read just today on the new cloud based model. Despite the title, it seems to be a pretty balanced
look at the pluses and minuses of 'The Cloud'.

(LINK REMOVED)

And here's another:

(LINK REMOVED)

Some good things to think about in there including this.....
with people 'locked into' paying for the service on a month to month basis, there is less incentive for Adobe to make good upgrades. For the users to have
any software at all, they will need to continue to pay. On the other hand, when users have already bought the software, Adobe has a very strong incentive
to improve the software and give the users a reason to upgrade.....this pressure would seem to be somewhat reduced with a cloud based subscription model.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 04:22 PM   #21
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Re: CS6 Cloud subscription = Brilliance?

But upgrading to new versions is no different then renewing your one year contract. Adobe will still want to update their software because if they do not people will decide to not renew their subscription for the next year until they do again.

Sure you don't get to use anything then but this will matter to Adobe. Companies also grow by gaining new users not so much by just keeping the current ones. This is how they increase their market share. Every year or so Adobe will still want to try to gain new customers and will have to stay on the competitive edge in order to do so. Just staying at the same profit level doesn't exactly help a company.

There are also those who think Adobe may innovate more because they will have a steady flow of income and will constantly be aiming for new customers instead of having to wait every year to pull in new users. Typically the largest burst of sales is when a new product comes out and new features will be held back to wait for that burst cycle. Since the cash flow will be constant Adobe could just release a new feature as soon as it is ready.

Remember Adobe wants to stay in business and that means keeping people subscribed.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 11:35 PM   #22
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Re: CS6 Cloud subscription = Brilliance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Smet View Post
But upgrading to new versions is no different then renewing your one year contract. Adobe will still want to update their software because if they do not people will decide to not renew their subscription for the next year until they do again.

Sure you don't get to use anything then but this will matter to Adobe. Companies also grow by gaining new users not so much by just keeping the current ones. This is how they increase their market share. Every year or so Adobe will still want to try to gain new customers and will have to stay on the competitive edge in order to do so. Just staying at the same profit level doesn't exactly help a company.

There are also those who think Adobe may innovate more because they will have a steady flow of income and will constantly be aiming for new customers instead of having to wait every year to pull in new users. Typically the largest burst of sales is when a new product comes out and new features will be held back to wait for that burst cycle. Since the cash flow will be constant Adobe could just release a new feature as soon as it is ready.

Remember Adobe wants to stay in business and that means keeping people subscribed.
Well to my mind there is a difference. If you buy CS6, you can just continue to use it, and for you to be willing to pay the upgrade price, Adobe has to come out with something new, significant, or better, or you will just continue to use CS6. But if you have a 'cloud' based subscription, you don't have the option to just continue to use the old version. You have to continue to pay to continue to use the software, you never actually 'own' it. This is a very significant difference in my mind.

In one case, you can continue to edit with the older version until they make significant improvements. In the other case, your choice is continue to pay, or lose everything. That is going to keep at least a decent percentage of people paying for the continued privilege of 'renting' the software. Do you see significant improvements in your cell phone service or your cable service when your contract is up? I certainly don't. It's just a service that is provided and I'm not seeing a lot of innovation, and in fact am seeing cell phone carriers try to limit data use and my cable company limit my internet use, even though I paid a premium price 8 years ago for an 'unlimited' use package and have been paying them that high monthly price for the past 8 years. The service has actually gotten worse. An iPhone on the other hand, continues to improve, because once someone has bought one, there have to be decent improvements for them to spend the money to 'upgrade'.

I understand this is not a direct 'apples to apples' comparison, but I think there is some similarities there.....at least in my mind.
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Old May 16th, 2012, 02:20 AM   #23
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Re: CS6 Cloud subscription = Brilliance?

Suck people in cheap at the start, get them hooked and then slowly increase the price.

Can't think where I've heard of that business model before. :-)
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Old May 16th, 2012, 06:07 AM   #24
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Re: CS6 Cloud subscription = Brilliance?

IMO this worried discussion about licensing is much ado about nothing.

If on some far off day not enough people are purchasing perpetual licenses anymore to make it worth the company's bother, how could one blame them for discontinuing that type of licensing? However, nowhere have I heard or read anything to indicate that Adobe intends to discontinue perpetual licensing any time in the foreseeable future. To the contrary, since there is demand for the traditional perpetual licensing model, there is incentive to continue offering it.

Each of us has our choice of a perpetual license or a Creative Cloud license -- so pick whichever works best for you and enjoy. Some people buy their cars; some people lease them. Now you can do the same with Creative Suite. Choice is good.

Note: I'm also removing the off-site links in Gabe's post from yesterday for two reasons:
- Policy: All the factual info is already here on DV Info Net and Adobe's web site and we don't need to be sending our membership away to some third party site for the same info.
- Moderator's prerogrative: I disagree with Gabe about the first link being balanced; IMO it leans more toward speculative hyperbole, part of which is already known to be a bit off the mark. Don't need to bring that here to DV Info Net. Thanks for understanding.
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