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Old May 7th, 2013, 03:11 AM   #16
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

I for one will not be upgrading to the cloud. Damned if I will be losing my money to move to a system where I will lose access to my software if I stop paying the rent.

I just can't believe how they can shoot themselves in the foot like this when they've capitalised so well on the FCPX debacle. Adobe have become the new Quark ... and it didn't take long.

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Old May 7th, 2013, 05:22 AM   #17
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

Adobe have a problem. As the years go on the improvements to each version of the software becomes smaller and smaller. People don't just jump to the latest versions anymore. Additionally Adobe's profits become centred around a spike generated by each new CS release. Which is I guess why they moved to yearly updates.

The solution for them is to move to a rental model that harks back to the days of large UNIX mainframes where you just rented the software. This gets rid of the revenue spikes and also kills off those pesky users who refuse to upgrade their software every year.

Ignore the "cloud" thing. It's a distraction, window dressing if you will. Premiere, AE, etc all remain the same. Adobe software has long "phoned home" and been able to be remotely deactivated. I knew an editor who it turned out had been using a dodgy serial number who woke up one morning to find his Premiere had been deactivated! So in other words Adobe have had this stuff in place for years and it hasn't impacted us legitimate users.

The problem is that we will now be renting our software. Stop paying and Adobe take it away. Now as an editor this worries me. I still have FCP on this system and perhaps once every 6 months I need to load it up to revise an old project or fetch something. The scary thing with the rental setup is that they are trying to lock you in to Adobe. What if I want Avid somewhere down the line? You'd still have to pay Adobe just to be sure you could open old projects.

This links into my second concern. As any drug dealer worth his salt knows, you give a cheap deal up front and when the user is hooked you whack up the price.....

Now the first year pricing for existing users looks quite attractive. But what about the second year, and the third? While the first year of Cloud may look like a great deal, looking at the pricing I fear users may be in for a nasty surprise a year down the line when they may find the cost could potentially double!

Overall the package looks good. There's lots on offer and if it really did work out at the same or less than I pay for my yearly upgrade then I'd consider it. But Adobe need to give reassurances on pricing and need to have a policy in place where editors can know they can still access their old files even if they have moved on from Adobe (perhaps a special rate to reactivate your entire CS setup for a few days so you can grab files rather than a full month).
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Old May 7th, 2013, 05:46 AM   #18
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

It's not so bad.

My upgrade last year from Prod Premium CS5.5 to CS6 cost $569. Our dollar is stronger than the US dollar, yet I believe that our US counterparts were able to upgrade to CS6 for about $300. So I really dreaded what Adobe might be charging the Aussies for an annual Cloud subscription ($1200 maybe?). I'd already set aside $600 for this year's anticipated upgrade to CS6.5, but was afraid I might have to double it for this new Cloud (being the only option now).

But a visit to the Aussie pricing on the Adobe website left me pleasantly surprised. $50/month (annual commitment) means $600 per year, so I'd be no worse off over what I'd be paying (as an Aussie) for a .5 upgrade.

Looking further, it seems that having CS3 or higher entitles me to a $30/month plan, which is $360 per year and a saving of over $200 on last year's upgrade.

That's why, in a very practical sense, I said it's not so bad (for this Aussie, at least). A $200 saving plus 20GB storage plus InDesign (which I now have use for). And I'm looking forward to the new "Sound Remover" feature in Audition CC.

I want Adobe to keep my tools "up with the times" (able to handle the latest codecs and features, etc.) which is why I was fine on paying each year for the annual ".5" upgrade. How else can Adobe afford to pay all their great programmers to keep things up-to-date plus improvements? My guess is that I'm in the minority and that, perhaps, too many have been sitting on CS3 or CS4 (or earlier) and consequently Adobe's viability has necessitated this shift to a cloud-only subscription? Purely a guess on my part and I could be way off.

The only thing which has me edgy is that this model sets up a landlord-tenant relationship where the landlord can, in theory, double the rent without notice. And you either have to "suck it up" or move out.

I've been happily using FCP X for the past 6 months now (went from FCP 6 to Prem Pro to FCP X), but my favourite two pieces of software are now Photoshop and After Effects. Absolutely indispensable to me now. So, as long as the rent stays reasonable, I'll be moving into Adobe's new apartment complex.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 05:59 AM   #19
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

You guys are catching on to the real issue. ie ignore the "creative cloud" terminology and think "rental" instead.

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Old May 7th, 2013, 06:27 AM   #20
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

"Adobe Rental" is what the real name should be. But the marketing department have won out by redefining what everyone else understands "cloud" to be, as "rental".

I suspect a few editors may now sweat their CS6 installs instead of upgrading every year.

Incidentally, presumably they haven't actually launched new versions of the software as yet which makes a mockery of the "special upgrade" price for CS6 users. "Hey idiots, we'll give you a discount if you pay again for something you already have".
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Old May 7th, 2013, 06:52 AM   #21
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Strong View Post
I moved to Adobe CS 6 from FCP 7 after the FCP X disaster. I will now be moving back and
learning FCP X. One customer Adobe has just miffed and lost right here.
Our whole studio moved to FCPX. It was never a debacle for us, but a major time savor. You may love the switch! Haha.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 08:24 AM   #22
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Chapman View Post
Our whole studio moved to FCPX. It was never a debacle for us, but a major time savor. You may love the switch! Haha.
The FCPX argument is irrelevant. CS6 is a suite of software. Premiere is a rather middle of the road editor, but the power comes with the other CS6 applications. After Effects is pretty much a must have for me these days as is Audition. The other tools such as Photoshop aren't so essential but are nicer than the alternatives.

Switching to FCPX doesn't solve the issues. All you've done is replace one editing package with another. It doesn't address the fact I still want the other Adobe applications around and there lies the problem.

If Premiere is the be all and end all for you, then it's not so much of an issue. However many of us have rather come to like having an entire ecosystem to exist within.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 09:37 AM   #23
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

The secret to happiness... Low overhead

The secret to low overhead... No monthly payments.

I'll never get on board with this approach.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 10:45 AM   #24
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Durham View Post
The FCPX argument is irrelevant. CS6 is a suite of software. Premiere is a rather middle of the road editor, but the power comes with the other CS6 applications. After Effects is pretty much a must have for me these days as is Audition. The other tools such as Photoshop aren't so essential but are nicer than the alternatives.

Switching to FCPX doesn't solve the issues. All you've done is replace one editing package with another. It doesn't address the fact I still want the other Adobe applications around and there lies the problem.

If Premiere is the be all and end all for you, then it's not so much of an issue. However many of us have rather come to like having an entire ecosystem to exist within.
No, it's not irrelevant. Not to me. I will replace CS 6 with FCP X. I will replace After Effects with
Motion. I will replace Photoshop with Gimp or something similar. Switching to FCP X will solve
the issue for at least some of us. Would I like to have the Adobe products? Yup. But I will not
be paying 'rental' for them. I know too well what this type of approach leads to. Just look at your
cell phone and cable bills. If you are hooked into paying for a service, there is much less need
for innovation. With the old approach, there was a big need to improve the software or people
would not buy the upgrade. Now with this approach, they can 'trickle out' new improvements and
still keep people paying. So while FCP may not be a perfect solution, it will work for many of us.
I do my own motion graphics and I'm not an expert by any means....Motion is plenty to do what I
need.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 11:31 AM   #25
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

Glad I didn't jump whole-hog to Adobe from FCP7.

Glad I spent time watching the AVID Media Composer demo at NAB.

Glad I think I'm retiring from video production.

The lunatics have taken over the asylum.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 11:47 AM   #26
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe Strong View Post
No, it's not irrelevant. Not to me. I will replace CS 6 with FCP X. I will replace After Effects with
Motion. I will replace Photoshop with Gimp or something similar.
It's all rather make do and mend though is't it? Gimp is flawed, Motion is good to a point but I always found it limiting and glitchy.

I've done it the other way around. FCP7 + Motion and other non CS software. It just ate up so much more time. These days I can send sequences to and from Audition and AE with one click. So much quicker and easier.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 11:54 AM   #27
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

OK I've scan read about 200 comments on the official Adobe forum about this whilst waiting for a render to complete. Lots and lots of unhappiness...(the render came out fine though!)

One thing that has come up several times (and on this thread here on DVinfo) is the steep pricing those for us in Europe and Oz (for example) as to what we are expected to pay with the monthly subscription model, compared to the $600/year US pricing at the full-rate, which does not seem so bad (i.e. $50/month after the first year - assuming you've been a recent CS owner). The other big worry is who knows what that charge will be in 2014, 2015, 2016...

I know taxes are different in various regions etc. (and in the UK we really get gouged on taxes...don't get me going on that one) but I think Adobe will need to fix at least some of the huge regional imbalances pretty quickly if they don't want to see vast swathes of the globe abandoning their software going forward (or at least using a boxed set until the've switched to something else).

When I switched to CS5.5 from FCS2 with the original FCP X debacle, I really thought Adobe were "listening" to what us video pros wanted...now I'm really doubting that. I've also been using Vegas on and off for years so I'm not exactly worried about switching yet again.

About the only reason I can think of that the've gone this repeated/periodic cloud subscription verification route is to counteract software piracy - I can certainly understand that aspect. However, there must be a better way so that those of us who pay our way don't get gouged whilst still allowing those periodic checks - surely!

I just hope Adobe are listening - heck, perhaps Apple were not so bad after all - compared to this ;-)
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Old May 7th, 2013, 12:11 PM   #28
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

This could be a perfect time for Edius, if only Grass Valley would get its marketing act together...
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Old May 7th, 2013, 03:12 PM   #29
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Durham View Post
It's all rather make do and mend though is't it? Gimp is flawed, Motion is good to a point but I always found it limiting and glitchy.

I've done it the other way around. FCP7 + Motion and other non CS software. It just ate up so much more time. These days I can send sequences to and from Audition and AE with one click. So much quicker and easier.
Motion worked fine for me, not any more glitchiness than AE. I am not a huge graphic designer
so I dont need the entire feature set of photoshop anyways. Heck I can use
Photoshop 7 and do most of what I need to do. I predict FCP X will soon come
out with Logic integration which will help as well. Yeah the CS integration is nice.
No, I will not 'rent' software to get it. This move by Adobe
had opened a huge opportunity for another company to
step into the void.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 04:02 PM   #30
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Re: It's not Creative Suite anymore... news from Adobe

It was mentioned briefly in an earlier posting, but one of the benefits of this business approach is to cut down on piracy. Sure, by all means, download the software... just don't expect it to function until you pay your dues.

Although, I've seen that type of stuff hacked on other platforms, so I doubt it will be an effective anti-piracy tool for long.

I really think Adobe lost their direction with this move. Time will tell.

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