What do I need to add? An Adobe Maximus Configuration?

Harm Millaard · July 5th, 2013, 02:37 AM

John,

Where did you come up with the idea of an AMD card all of a sudden?

First of all, there are still - and not surprising - problems with the AMD drivers. It looks that only the latest beta drivers do allow hardware acceleration and the WHQL drivers cause either hangs or do not work at all. Second thing to keep in mind is that Marketing is always about telling only what is in their own advantage and leaving out everything else, it is always only telling part of the truth. Adobe does that, so does AMD.

There are a number of misleading aspects in the chart they publish on their website, that makes you wonder how much of the truth they want to hide and how realistic these results are.

Apart from the fact that the system they used for coming up with these results is severely dated and underpowered (a single Xeon E5530 with only 12 GB memory and a single Velociraptor make a terrible combination, that would rank about # 1100 - # 1200 out of 1300 systems in our benchmark), they compared using a highly flawed build #294 of Premiere Pro with a high emphasis on Lumetri effects, that still causes lots of problems with the released version of PR.

So one may wonder if the basis for this published comparison, system and software, is a trustworthy one.

The second problem I have with this comparison is the FirePro W5000 versus the Quadro K2000.
The W5000 has a memory bandwidth of 103 GB/s, the Quadro K2000 only 64 GB/s, so even if one could directly compare Open CL acceleration to CUDA acceleration, it would be a rather useless comparison, because the K2000 would be around 60% slower to start with.

Disappointing that AMD claims only 40 - 45% more efficiency. It should have been closer to 60% if Open CL were just as efficient as CUDA, but that is not yet the case. Don't forget that CUDA acceleration has been around for several years and nVidia/Adobe have been working on optimizing the code continuously, Open CL is a new kid on the block, still in its infancy.

However, if the comparison had been done on a more powerful system you would have gotten much more reliable results. Doing this test on such a weak test platform means that there is a significant imbalance that holds back video card performance.

What I'm also missing is the comparison to a GTX 770, that is lower priced and has a memory bandwidth of 224.3 GB/s and thus starts out with a performance advantage of around 350% over the K2000 and 220% over the FirePro W5000.

Well, that is what Marketing is all about, obfuscating things and only telling half truths.

John Mullens · July 5th, 2013, 11:59 PM

Thanks Harm for keeping things in perspective.

Some knucklehead (a buddy of mine) told me about AMD firepro w. I checked it out, felt the hype and you have saved me a lot of headaches again with your down to earth real world knowledge. I will be going with your recommendations for upgrading my discs. I will give it a go and try a DIY raid3.

Bart Walczak · July 15th, 2013, 02:41 AM

OpenCL has been around since 2009, and in its 1.2 iteration is pretty mature. The benchmarks on equal hardware with CUDA show pretty much equal results, not showing the problems with overhead that were present in 1.1. I wouldn't dismiss it ouf of hand, it's a more versatile technology than CUDA.

That said, comparing W5000 to K2000 makes sense only on the price level, these are two different cards. On the other hand, AMD was always known to produce less expensive versions. And yes, the comparison to GTX series should be included, if only to show how gaming cards outclass them in both price and performance.

Harm Millaard · July 15th, 2013, 02:36 PM

Bart,

I was only talking about the combo of Adobe PR and OpenCl. Not about OpenCL alone. Sure it has been on the market for quite some time, but Adobe has neglected it till CC because of stability and maturity problems. And when we are talking of hardware MPE, then OpenCL is still the 'new kid on the block'.

July 5th, 2013, 02:37 AM	#16
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Re: What do I need to add? An Adobe Maximus Configuration? John, Where did you come up with the idea of an AMD card all of a sudden? First of all, there are still - and not surprising - problems with the AMD drivers. It looks that only the latest beta drivers do allow hardware acceleration and the WHQL drivers cause either hangs or do not work at all. Second thing to keep in mind is that Marketing is always about telling only what is in their own advantage and leaving out everything else, it is always only telling part of the truth. Adobe does that, so does AMD. There are a number of misleading aspects in the chart they publish on their website, that makes you wonder how much of the truth they want to hide and how realistic these results are. Apart from the fact that the system they used for coming up with these results is severely dated and underpowered (a single Xeon E5530 with only 12 GB memory and a single Velociraptor make a terrible combination, that would rank about # 1100 - # 1200 out of 1300 systems in our benchmark), they compared using a highly flawed build #294 of Premiere Pro with a high emphasis on Lumetri effects, that still causes lots of problems with the released version of PR. So one may wonder if the basis for this published comparison, system and software, is a trustworthy one. The second problem I have with this comparison is the FirePro W5000 versus the Quadro K2000. The W5000 has a memory bandwidth of 103 GB/s, the Quadro K2000 only 64 GB/s, so even if one could directly compare Open CL acceleration to CUDA acceleration, it would be a rather useless comparison, because the K2000 would be around 60% slower to start with. Disappointing that AMD claims only 40 - 45% more efficiency. It should have been closer to 60% if Open CL were just as efficient as CUDA, but that is not yet the case. Don't forget that CUDA acceleration has been around for several years and nVidia/Adobe have been working on optimizing the code continuously, Open CL is a new kid on the block, still in its infancy. However, if the comparison had been done on a more powerful system you would have gotten much more reliable results. Doing this test on such a weak test platform means that there is a significant imbalance that holds back video card performance. What I'm also missing is the comparison to a GTX 770, that is lower priced and has a memory bandwidth of 224.3 GB/s and thus starts out with a performance advantage of around 350% over the K2000 and 220% over the FirePro W5000. Well, that is what Marketing is all about, obfuscating things and only telling half truths. Attached Thumbnails

July 5th, 2013, 11:59 PM	#17
John Mullens New Boot Join Date: May 2013 Location: Texarkana Texas Posts: 8	Re: What do I need to add? An Adobe Maximus Configuration? Thanks Harm for keeping things in perspective. Some knucklehead (a buddy of mine) told me about AMD firepro w. I checked it out, felt the hype and you have saved me a lot of headaches again with your down to earth real world knowledge. I will be going with your recommendations for upgrading my discs. I will give it a go and try a DIY raid3.

July 15th, 2013, 02:41 AM	#18
Bart Walczak Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Warsaw/Poland Posts: 716	Re: What do I need to add? An Adobe Maximus Configuration? OpenCL has been around since 2009, and in its 1.2 iteration is pretty mature. The benchmarks on equal hardware with CUDA show pretty much equal results, not showing the problems with overhead that were present in 1.1. I wouldn't dismiss it ouf of hand, it's a more versatile technology than CUDA. That said, comparing W5000 to K2000 makes sense only on the price level, these are two different cards. On the other hand, AMD was always known to produce less expensive versions. And yes, the comparison to GTX series should be included, if only to show how gaming cards outclass them in both price and performance. __________________ Creative Impatience - The Solace of Simple Solutions. A few useful plugins for Adobe users, and my remarks on the tools and the craft in general.

July 15th, 2013, 02:36 PM	#19
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Re: What do I need to add? An Adobe Maximus Configuration? Bart, I was only talking about the combo of Adobe PR and OpenCl. Not about OpenCL alone. Sure it has been on the market for quite some time, but Adobe has neglected it till CC because of stability and maturity problems. And when we are talking of hardware MPE, then OpenCL is still the 'new kid on the block'.