HP Elitebook for premiere?

[Donald Ong]

Firstly, I apologise if this is in the wrong section...First post here.

Anyway, I'm getting a laptop for on site and wedding same day editing. It needs to run premiere CS6 and Photoshop decently. It doesn't need to handle heavy grading and effects as I have and use my desktop for that.

The laptop I've shortlisted is the HP Elitebook 8570. The specs are as follows:

Intel® Core™ i7-3740QM (2.70 GHz, 6 MB L3 cache, 4 cores)
8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 SDRAM (might upgrade it to 16gb)
750 GB 7200 rpm SATA II
15.6" diagonal LED-backlit FHD WVA anti-glare (1920 x 1080)
NVIDIA Quadro K1000M (2 GB dedicated DDR3)

Would this be good enough for light weight editing and retouching? Also, there's an option between Nvidia quadro and AMD FirePro™ M4000. I suppose I should go with Nvidia quadro to make use of premiere's GPU acceleration?

Many thanks!

[Harm Millaard]

Donald,

As long as you realize that every laptop is at least 3 times slower than a desktop and needs to be plugged in a wall outlet for power, negating the portability aspect of a laptop, it looks like a decent choice with the following observations:

CPU = OK
Memory : better increase it to 16 GB
750 GB 7200 RPM disk = OK
Quadro K1000M is very slow, but there is no sensible alternative. It would have been nice to have had the option of a GTX 660M or better.

The major problem is the lack of a second and third internal disk drive. You would want to have a SSD for OS & programs, the first 750 GB disk for media and projects and a third disk for media cache, previews and exports. All using SATA or eSATA connections or in a worst case USB3.

[Donald Ong]

3 times slower than an equivalent specced desktop or desktops in general?

Well, there isn't much choice in terms of graphics cards for laptops...most use the Intel hd graphics 4000, which from what i know, isn't very good at all. Most of the workstation grade laptops use either the quadro k1000m or AMD firepro m4000. Among those two, which would be a better choice?

Thanks for your insight.

[Harm Millaard]

Energy consumption is a major obstacle for laptops. That is why the clock speed is lower, that there is even more throttling down and further energy savings performed than on desktops.

If you look at Benchmark Results and select Laptops under Computer Type, you will see how laptops perform in comparison to desktops. Interesting is the entry at rank # 637, a HP Elitebook 8670W with a slightly faster CPU than you intend, with 16 GB memory and a Quadro K5010M video card, much, much faster than the K1000M and with two SSD's. Even this system is almost 3.8 times slower than a fast desktop.

Even the fastest laptop at rank # 385, despite a top CPU, 16 GB memory, a very fast GTX 660M and both a SSD and a 750 HDD is surpassed by 384 desktops.

On another forum I wrote:

First, the question is why a laptop and why not a desktop?

Laptops are always at least 2 to 3 times slower than a desktop, they are significantly more expensive than a desktop with the same or better performance and they need a wall outlet to use. Batteries don't last long enough for editing and you need a wall outlet for external components (disks, monitor, BD-R etc.) that are required. All that makes a laptop more like an expensive, underpowered luggable machine.

For video editing machines it is always best to use a machine for video editing only and use a second system for other applications and this is especially true for much weaker laptops than desktops.

So, let me repeat the question: What are the considerations to use a laptop over a desktop? You have to be very clear about it to sell the idea to the one responsible for the budget. You also have to be clear about the performance penalty, if you decide to go forward with a laptop.

OK, we got this out of the way. You have good arguments to get a laptop and you have succesfully sold the idea to the one responsible for the available budget.

So what are your choices and what do you need to look for in terms of specs?

First, let me remind you of the article Adobe Forums: What PC to build? An update... because it contains a number of relevant issues that influence your choice. Basically there are three approaches possible:

Get a laptop from a brand company like Asus, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Toshiba and the like.
Get a customizable laptop from specialist companies like Sager or Clevo.
Get a custom builder like ADK Video Editing build you a system tuned to your needs.

All these solutions have a number of common components, under the assumption you want to edit HD material:

CPU: at least a quad core i7 processor, preferably with hyper-threading. The faster the better.
GPU: at least a nVidia GTX 660M or better with 1+ GB DDR5 memory.
Disks: at least 2 internal 7200 RPM disks.
Connections: minimum is eSATA plus USB3 ports.
Monitor: at least 1920 x 1080 resolution and 15.4" screen size or bigger.
Memory: bare minimum is 8 GB but workable is only 16 or 32 GB.

Hope this explains it a bit.

[Donald Ong]

Oh I see.

Well i don't really need something to rival a desktop as for the most part I will be editing from my current desktop. Are the Quadro K1000Ms that bad? They seem to be standard on most workstation laptops. Also, it's not on Adobe's list for GPU acceleration support...is the list incomplete or does it not support gpu acceleration?

[Harm Millaard]

Look here: Tweakers Page and scroll down to below the table with video cards. You will see a graph that explains why Quadro's are generally a bad and expensive idea.

The K1000M is extremely slow, because it uses DDR3 memory and only has a bandwidth of 28.8 GB/s, making it even slower than a simple GT 640.

[Donald Ong]

Thing is, most workstation laptops in this price range give you a choice between AMD firepro m4000 or Quadro k1000m. Of the two, which is better? I understand it's probably like comparing turd to dung, but for the price range, i don't think you'll get anything better?...At least i haven't seen any. I assume the Intel HD4000 is out of the equation?

[Jeff Pulera]

Hi Donald,

I believe by now Harm has made his point that laptop performance is not equal to a desktop, and that point cannot be argued. But as far as laptops for Premiere are concerned, I think the HP EliteBook models are a good choice for several reasons.

Rugged construction/durability.

They do have Core i7 processors, and can be had with Nvidia graphics. If you can afford a better model, you can get the 3000M graphics that feature 2GB of DDR5 that will benefit Premiere.

I/O - these are some of the last laptops available that have both a 1394 Firewire input (to connect DV or HDV cameras) and an ExpressCard slot, which would allow the connection of a Matrox MXO2 or other professional accessories for video needs. Also has eSATA and USB 3.0 ports for fast external hard drives. As Harm mentioned, get yourself another drive just for video editing, keep video clips off of the C: drive.

We have sold several EliteBooks to our custom desktop workstation users for Premiere editing, and all users have expressed surprise at the performance of the HPs, saying they are much faster than anticipated, and they enjoy editing with them.

You may find it a good investment to move up a model or two for better performance though, and in any case, the 16GB upgrade will be worthwhile.

Please note, the HP may come with a very old Nvidia driver installed. You must update this before trying the hack for Premiere GPU acceleration, special instructions here - Optimus Technolog setting for Adobe Premiere and After Effects CS6 for a Laptop by David Knarr

Thanks

[Randall Leong]

Originally Posted by Donald Ong

Thing is, most workstation laptops in this price range give you a choice between AMD firepro m4000 or Quadro k1000m. Of the two, which is better? I understand it's probably like comparing turd to dung, but for the price range, i don't think you'll get anything better?...At least i haven't seen any. I assume the Intel HD4000 is out of the equation?

Don't even consider the Intel HD 4000: It does not have its own discrete RAM. It steals system RAM for itself, like all other "integrated" graphics solutions. That may leave you with too little available system RAM to run the program properly.

As for the Quadro K1000m versus the FirePro M4000, don't even consider an AMD GPU for Premiere Pro CS6: The Windows version of CS6 does not support OpenCL at all for MPE GPU acceleration. As such, PCs with AMD GPUs will be permanently locked to the software-only MPE mode (with no GPU acceleration whatsoever outside of what little the older OpenGL API provides) with Premiere Pro CS6. (Photoshop for Windows, on the other hand, supports OpenCL in its Mercury Graphics Engine starting with CS6.)

[Al Bergstein]

New Thunderbolt Add-on option for Hp Z820 : Adobe Premiere Pro
You may want to watch this recent video.

[Donald Ong]

Alright, I see. So the Quadro k1000m is a safe bet, yes? Regarding the 3000M graphics, I don't think HP has any models in the 8570w series with that..is there?

[Jeff Pulera]

The 8570w C6Y89UT has the K2000M with 2GB RAM, but it is still DDR3. And as Harm mentioned, the 1000M will work, but not very well. Minimal benefit from the GPU acceleration due to slow RAM.

After being used to viewing the screen of the 17" 8770w models, I recently got to try an 8570w with the 15" screen and maybe my sight is not what it used to be, but Premiere loves screen real estate and I felt everything was just too small on the 15" model.

The 8770w C6Y83UT has the K3000M graphics with 2GB DDR5, and 17.3" screen. A little larger and heavier and of course a few hundred more, but a much more serious solution I think. Maybe you would find the 8570w satisfactory to your needs, but I would rather spend a bit more and do it right if I'm making the investment anyway, rather than regret having spent x amount for marginal performance. And I'm not trying to sell you anything, you are overseas anyway, just sharing my own experience.

Thanks

[Donald Ong]

Yep, I have considered the 8770w...but it might be a tad overkill for what I intend to use it for. Basically, I just need to be able to do rough cuts and simple wedding SDE cuts. For more complex projects, I'll rough cut on the 8570 before transferring the project files to my desktop for grading. i usually work alone (at most with a second shooter) so I would prefer i lighter, smaller solution.

i might get the 8570 with the K2000M, but I'll probably be sticking with the 8570...17'' is overkill for my needs... well, until i start shooting 4k ;)