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Old October 14th, 2005, 10:01 AM   #1
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Another Premiere pro question...

I have just exported a short 10 minute clip/film out of Premiere so I can author it into a DVD and its in the windows media player AVI file.

Almost all of the onboard camera sound is removed as it was about cars at a show etc and music put on the audio 2 track to run through the length of the clip with about 3 minutes on onboard audio, at these parts on Premiere it runs fine but when I play it back on the media player it cracks and hisses (the exported clip)

I thought it might have been my own computer speakers so brned it to dvd but it does the same thing, has anyone got some idea of whats wrong?

Many thanks
Paul
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Old October 14th, 2005, 10:32 AM   #2
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This can be caused by volume leves that are too high. In Premiere Pro, open the Audio Mixer if it is not already open (Window>Audio Mixer), and play back your project. If the audio level goes above 0 db, then reduce the volume. In fact, it would probably be a good idea to make sure there are no audio peaks above -12 db. I know that my Samsung DVD player (or perhaps the sound sound system, I'm not sure which) had a problem with audio levels approaching 0 db on DVDs. Now I master my DVDs with sound levels no higher than -12 db, and I've had no more problems.
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Old October 14th, 2005, 10:55 AM   #3
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Thank you Christopher,
I'll give that ago.
The sounds are very high on that clip as its a car revving up.
I'll let you know what happens and thanks again for your help.
Paul
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Old October 14th, 2005, 12:18 PM   #4
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Your right it peaking out at the very red, do you reduce the master to -12 or that seperate audio track, and do you do this all on the audio mixer?
Paul
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Old October 14th, 2005, 01:21 PM   #5
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When I mix audio in Premiere Pro, I reduce the volume on individual clips to just under 0 db should they peak over 0 db. Once that is done, before I export the file for DVD I reduce the Master channel in the Audio Mixer by -12 db.

Here is how to reduce the volume on an individual clip in the Timeline window (from the Premiere Pro help file).

To edit a clip or track's audio levels in the Timeline window:

1. In the Timeline window, expand a track's view, if necessary, by clicking the expansion triangle next to the track name.
2. Click the Show Keyframes button Show Keyframes button , and choose Show Clip Volume or Show Track Volume from the menu that appears.
3. Use the pen tool to adjust the level uniformly (if keyframes have not been added) or to add or edit keyframes.
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Old October 14th, 2005, 03:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Gallagher
The sounds are very high on that clip as its a car revving up.
i would first look at how the source audio was recorded... if you used agc, the motor sound should have been recorded at an acceptable level, so you'd need to look at how it was edited to see why it came out too loud.

if you recorded the motor sound with the agc off, you could have over-driven the recorded sound past 0 db, which would have ruined it... but that would have explained why it's too loud.

the goal is to have the audio set correctly before anything is exported... i try to use the digital audio meters on my mackie mixer, but ultimately i think that you want a quality set of powered vu meters... it's probably a good idea to never depend on the editing software to set audio levels, and of course never try to match audio levels strictly by ear alone.
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Old October 14th, 2005, 05:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Euritt
would first look at how the source audio was recorded... if you used agc, the motor sound should have been recorded at an acceptable level, so you'd need to look at how it was edited to see why it came out too loud.
His audio sounded fine in Premiere Pro. It was just when it was exported that the crackling occurred. My guess is that his source audio was probably fine, but adding the music to the camera track audio when editing pushed the whole mix past the acceptable level for exporting. Evidently, either due to Premiere Pro's mixing audio in 32 bits, or the particular DV codec used when exporting (or both), one has more headroom for audio levels inside the program than when exporting the final video.
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Old October 14th, 2005, 05:50 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Lefchik
When I mix audio in Premiere Pro, I reduce the volume on individual clips to just under 0 db should they peak over 0 db. Once that is done, before I export the file for DVD I reduce the Master channel in the Audio Mixer by -12 db.
Why so quiet?
Every dvd I have created has never required such drastic intervention. All (most) have all flavours of audio from band to voice, music tracks and ambient / shop floor all peaking to within -.05 db.

Don't your clients mention that they have to way turn up the volume to listen to your work?
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Old October 14th, 2005, 10:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy McKenzie
Why so quiet?
This was due to my own problems on playback with the audio from my DVDs. I read on the Adobe User to User Forums that the audio should be reduced by -12 db. Presto! Problem solved. Interestingly, commercial DVDs seem to play back about the same sound level (no more getting blasted by the audio from my own DVDs since the volume was set for commercial DVDs/videotapes).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy McKenzie
Don't your clients mention that they have to way turn up the volume to listen to your work?
I've never gotten any complaints from people that the sound was too low on the DVDs I've made.

The reason I reduced by -12 db (and not something like -6 db) was something I had read on the Adobe User to User forums recommended -12 db.
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Last edited by Christopher Lefchik; October 14th, 2005 at 11:25 PM.
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Old October 14th, 2005, 11:01 PM   #10
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I did a quick search on the Adobe Premiere Pro User to User forum on the subject. Read the two threads linked below for an explanation. Pay special attention to the last post on the second thread. This is more complicated than I thought; my head is starting to hurt...

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/w...36@.2cceddd9/0

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/w...2050@.2ccd6c5c

Short story: The correct audio input and output level depends on your source and destination, plus the peak level Premiere Pro expects. You have no control over the level the audio comes in (if you are using IEEE 1394), but you do have control over the output. But again, you must know what level your source treats as peak, and what your destination media treats as peak. This a subject every Premiere Pro user (and every prosumer/pro NLE user, for that matter) should be aware of.

(Oh, and by the way, Premiere Pro's audio reference tone is at -12 db.)

Read the threads linked above. This is important!
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Old October 15th, 2005, 09:47 AM   #11
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Thanks for your help Christopher,
I'll try this out and let you know how it sounds.
Paul
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Old October 16th, 2005, 08:44 AM   #12
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Thanks again Christopher,
That worked a treat.
Paul
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Old October 16th, 2005, 09:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy McKenzie
Why so quiet?
Every dvd I have created has never required such drastic intervention. All (most) have all flavours of audio from band to voice, music tracks and ambient / shop floor all peaking to within -.05 db.
exactly... you should never have to knock the entire edited track down when exporting good audio from the editor.

this appears to be an issue with premiere.
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Old October 16th, 2005, 02:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Gallagher
Thanks again Christopher,
That worked a treat.
Paul
Glad to "hear" it worked!
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Old October 16th, 2005, 02:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Euritt
exactly... you should never have to knock the entire edited track down when exporting good audio from the editor.

this appears to be an issue with premiere.
Reading the two threads I mentioned above from the Adobe forum there appears to be several issues at work. The first one is that there is no one standard reference level for audio when it comes to video equipment (for digital video equipment, some of the different reference levels mentioned in the first thread from equipment manuals are -20, -10, -14, and -12 db). Secondly, Premiere Pro's reference level is at -12 db, and Premiere does not offer a level adjustment/VU meters for audio on capture (in other words, you're cooked if your DV camera's audio reference level is hotter than Premiere's). Thirdly, it appears that there may be an issue with over modulation when exporting the timeline to a DV file (but not on exporting to a DV camera).

Problem number one could have been avoided in the first place had video equipment manufacturers standardized on a single audio reference level. Problems two and three are clearly Adobe's fault, though number two would never have arisen had problem one been avoided.

If your video equipment and workflow happens to be compatible with Premiere Pro's audio reference level, you may never see any audio issues.

I wonder how other editing software handles audio reference levels? While an important issue, this seems to be a rare subject. 0 db is thrown around as the "official" level, but this is evidently not the case when it comes to video equipment.

Please, read the threads from the Adobe forum before commenting.
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Last edited by Christopher Lefchik; October 16th, 2005 at 02:58 PM.
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