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Old December 12th, 2002, 04:21 PM   #1
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Does anybody LOVE Premiere 6.5?

Hey, all. I've read all the complaints/criticisms/problems about Premiere 6.5... it's normal that that's mainly what gets posted, but since I'm debating which top NLE software to buy, what I'm really wondering is this:

Does anybody really love Premiere 6.5?

I ask because I seem to see little but praise for Final Cut Pro, and lots of complaints about P6.5, yet I'm bound to a Win XP machine so I want to find the best option.

Also, which other top NLE software (that allows real-time preview and other speed-related plusses) for XP machines do folks love? (For sake of argument let's assume all prices were equal, since I'm purely interested in qualities, regardless of price. Thanks!)

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Old December 12th, 2002, 04:38 PM   #2
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Sonic Foundry Vegas Video. Pretty much everyone who gets seriously into it, loves it.

I'm not going to spend time to go into details, there's been plenty of other gushing topics about it already. Do some searches here, or just go to sonicfoundry.com and download the demo and try it out yourself.
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Old December 12th, 2002, 05:39 PM   #3
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What a number of users like is the Adobe Production Suite of Premiere, After Effects, and Photoshop. The plugins that are available also contribute to its popularity.

That aside, other prefer Avid, Canopus, and of course, Vegas Video.

As you have already noted VV (Vegas Video) get a lot of acclaim. It is a very good product with a number of excellent features, for half the cost of Premiere. AND if you can find someone with a student ID, VV is cheaper still!

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Old December 12th, 2002, 07:09 PM   #4
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Well, if price isn't a problem then go with a "High End" system like FCP or Avid.

But that might be overkill for your needs. Ideally, you want to buy the most bang for your buck, with room to grow into what you think your future needs will be.

Plan on offlining a feature film?

Avid all the way. Cut it at home, take it into the Symphony suite and conform the negative. Or conform it at home with the powerpack. FCP just posted a patch that is supposed to help with its EDL's which were notoriously awkward and inaccurate.

Starting up a small production shop, doing a lot of inhouse stuff... FCP may be the ticket. Specially if you want to pay the extra bucks to edit uncompressed... Have to Go to XPress to do that.

Weddings, Events, Corporate? That seems to be a big choice for VV and Premiere. Much less expensive than either FCP or Avid, but you want to pay more to get the accelerated hardware for "real time" whatever that is these days...

People complain on these forums... here, on FCP and on Avids. They come looking for answers to logjams... many they have created themselves... (I know I am guilty). The people who don't have a problem are busy working - or posting on forums.

Of course, these are generalities, and all generalities are false...

Bill
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Old December 13th, 2002, 06:58 AM   #5
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Good info from Bill.

I have both Premiere (and After Effects Production Bundle as well as Photoshop) and also Vegas Video.

My Adobe setup was kinda pricey... but the capabilities are beyond what I will ever be able to do with it.

Vegas Video is a killer program for the money... and the audio tools are very good.

I use them for different purposes, as each has it's own strengths and weaknesses.

As Nathan pointed out, Premiere has the benefit of "plug-ins out the kazoo", so if you're into a bevy of special effects... Premiere is a good choice.

For quick and simple editing, with a powerful toolset, Vegas Video is the hands down choice for me... and it's inexpensive. The more I learn about it, the more powerful I realize it is. Voiceovers are a snap, too.

I have yet to experience a freeze-up in Vegas, while Premiere has frozen several times. I guess the more complicated a program is... the more likely a crash can occur. Not the kind of crash that takes the whole system down... just the program.

If money isn't a big issue, I would recommend you get them both.
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Old December 13th, 2002, 07:25 AM   #6
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I agree with Doug Quance.

I use both and it depends on what your needs are.
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Old December 13th, 2002, 03:17 PM   #7
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Great! Thanks for all your insightful comments. I gather FCP still is Mac-only so that's out for me, but these are all helpful thoughts on VV, Premiere and Avid. Thanks!

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Old December 13th, 2002, 04:17 PM   #8
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Uhhh...Avid DV Xpress is great BUT...it has a VERY steep learning curve...you might want to use Premiere or VV unless your going to be doing some film or really NEED to use it. As I understand...the ones who use it (DV Xpress) say they love it once they re-learn editing the "Avid" way.
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Old December 13th, 2002, 04:32 PM   #9
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Its easy to work between AE and Vegas using Quicktime. You can render out comps from AE into Quicktime animation or uncompressed and pull them directly into the timeline on Vegas.
No compression artifacts.... Vegas actually requres Quicktime in order to handle certain still image formats.

onerivermedia.com has some links to popluar quicktime codecs that are now available for the Windows version. worth checking out. One from blackriver is a 10bit, another from digitalanarchy offers a lossless compressed true 64bit codec designed specifically for AE.

With that, there is little reason not to use Vegas.
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Old December 13th, 2002, 04:43 PM   #10
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Yeah, Avid's gotta curve... I spent a week with an editor on an Avid at an editing house last year and got the basics down okay enough to put together a simple short (of course, he was a good teacher) but then more recently I got to watch one of my favorite film editors at the Avid and got totally intimidated!

Alas, I was wowed by the full Avid system but I don't think I need to sink a grand-plus in Avid DV Xpress now, even though I want serious capability. Thus I think I'll go for Premiere 6.5 now. Sounds more capable than VV, even though the latter sounds easier and more reliable.

Thanks yet again.
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Old December 13th, 2002, 08:24 PM   #11
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I would suggest also that anyone looking for an NLE try the demos before they buy. I know Im in the minority here, but I like Premiere better than Vegas. I think that Premiere is easier to learn. But mny others think the opposite. So, try them and see what you are comfortable with.
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Old December 13th, 2002, 08:39 PM   #12
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I COMPLETELY agree~!
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Old December 14th, 2002, 02:59 AM   #13
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Smart.

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Old December 14th, 2002, 07:41 AM   #14
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I absolutely agree that Avid has a steep learning curve.

I am old school film, and finally decided to learn NLE. The first course I took was in Premiere. (Keep in mind, that I learned most of my computer skills from my teen-aged son.) I finally got the basics of Premiere down. Then went shopping. I knew I was looking long term at feature film products... So I looked at Avid ANd FCP. Went to seminars and demos. Looked at Matrox/Premiere systems.. the whole gamut. It's definitley a good idea to give different products a hands on if you can.

I walked up to the owner of DVLine at one seminar, and asked him about Avid's learning curve. He kind of looked down at the ground then smiled sideways. "It's steep, REALLY steep. Especially if you are coming from premiere.... BUT WORTH IT."

I bought a turnkey system. Big investment. And was immediately swamped by my efforts to "Make it work like it does in Premiere." Sure I knew what I wanted to do... I just couldn't figure out why it didn't work the same way.

Then I began to understand that Avid works from a FILM paradigm. It treats the files as if they refference real film media. It is basically keeping track of what you want to do to THE NEGATIVE. Premiere is coming from a computer graphics paradigm. Files are just files. There are good and bad approaches to both... understanding the difference is key. Avid will give you five different ways to do something. And most of them are keyboard oriented. And Avid interfaces are VERY similar. If you master XpressDV, then you have a headstart sitting down at a Symphony or Media Pro Suite, looking at your high-end HiDef stuff.

A lot of the questions on the Avid forum are from people who begin with "In premiere... I can do this, how does it work in Avid?"

Avid is a big investment, and can be a handfull to learn. It's not for everybody. But anybody who is considerring feature work on a professional level, should give it a serious once-over.

Bill
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Old December 14th, 2002, 01:14 PM   #15
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One thing struck me when you said,"...I bought a turnkey system. Big investment. And was immediately swamped by my efforts..." that's why I suggest you try something like Premiere or VV. Time IS money if your doing this for food & shelter. And in these days of small profit margins and a uncertain economy you should make sure you can get up and running as quickly as possible. The best way to eat a elephant is one bite at a time.

I often fool around with DV express but it's not cost effective to try and make it my "main" system till I completely understand it and I can use it as quickly as I can Premiere. It's not fair to a client and it's not fair to myself to put that kind of pressure on me. Sure, I want to learn it but I know whats in store for me when I click on the icon.

I've been doing this a long time but Avid's thinking is completely different and sometimes I feel there's just no room left in my brain after messing with it. It's a LOT to know and although it can do a lot of things I want to offer a client, sometimes you just have to back up and ask yourself...is the high worth the hassle. So far, for me, it isn't, but I KNOW it will be...even the books are confusing and not very complete so I keep plugging away at it in my "spare time" hoping to one day "see the light".

As I understand it....there comes a time when something goes "click" and it makes complete sense...I unfortunately haven't gotten to that point yet.
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