XL2 with 4-Channels of Audio in Premiere Pro (not a capture question) at DVinfo.net

Kevin Janisch · February 1st, 2006, 06:48 PM

Excuse the post for being in the XL2 section, but I figured there was a better chance that a fellow operator would be able to help me.

So I have captured my footage in Scenalyzer. I have 4 channels of audio (actually 3 as I used a mono mic via xlr) and I want the audio to stay synced. So I have 1 stereo channel in Audio1 in Premiere Pro and I have a mono clip in Audio2. I can group the 3 tracks (2 audio and 1 video) but when I add a transition to the video and tweak it (change in out points of transition), the audio in Audio2 does not re-adjust to the change I made in the transition (doesn't shift with it), of course Audio1 does. If I unlink Video1 and Audio1 and relink Video1 and Audio2, the behavior is the same, except it is now audio1 that doesn't adjust. Am I missing something? I know that I could probably create a sequence for each clip to avoid this problem (ridiculous in my opinion), but there has to be a simpler, right in front of me, answer, right? Any ideas? Many thanks.

Kevin

Kevin

Greg Boston · February 2nd, 2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Janisch

Excuse the post for being in the XL2 section, but I figured there was a better chance that a fellow operator would be able to help me.

So I have captured my footage in Scenalyzer. I have 4 channels of audio (actually 3 as I used a mono mic via xlr) and I want the audio to stay synced. So I have 1 stereo channel in Audio1 in Premiere Pro and I have a mono clip in Audio2. I can group the 3 tracks (2 audio and 1 video) but when I add a transition to the video and tweak it (change in out points of transition), the audio in Audio2 does not re-adjust to the change I made in the transition (doesn't shift with it), of course Audio1 does. If I unlink Video1 and Audio1 and relink Video1 and Audio2, the behavior is the same, except it is now audio1 that doesn't adjust. Am I missing something? I know that I could probably create a sequence for each clip to avoid this problem (ridiculous in my opinion), but there has to be a simpler, right in front of me, answer, right? Any ideas? Many thanks.

Kevin

Kevin

This post does belong in the NLE forums so I will re-direct it there. You might consider two possibilities. Is it possible to lock 'all the tracks' and not just one audio or the other to the video? If not, consider mixing the audio then collapsing it into a two channel mix to lock with the video track.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

-gb-

Barry Oppenheim · February 2nd, 2006, 10:24 AM

I agree with Greg. Place all of the audio and video into a "virgin" sequence. Make sure the audio and video are in sync and mix the audio using the audio mixer. Then lock down all of the tracks.

Now you can insert/drag/nest this sequence into other sequences and edit the other sequences as needed. I routinely use this method for mixing an 8-track audio sequence into a single video/stereo audio track

Kevin Janisch · February 2nd, 2006, 11:12 AM

Thanks guys. So there isn't any other way other than creating an individual sequence for each of my clips and then dropping those sequences into a master sequence. This seems rather cumbersome for just syncing the audio tracks to behave correctly when adding transitions.

Sometimes I am simply amazed at what Premiere Pro can do, such as being able to import a project into After Effects and color correcting there (with nested sequences intact), and at other times I'm left scratching my head about what seems to be the simplest of problems, such as the aforementioned one along with the strange behavior of "automate to sequence" while selecting the 3+4 channel audio or even just the 3+4 channel audio (it always wants to insert onto Audio1 instead of Audio2 which I have selected, only way is to lock the Audio1 channel which is already populated). Then you can't have head and tail frames automated unless you have the video and/or transition selected, then why have an active check box when those options aren't selected? Strange and rather unintuitive. Been using since version 4 and although PPro 1.5 is far and above previous versions, I often find little things that just kill my work flow. Just a rant, enough said. Thanks once again.

Mark Whittle · February 5th, 2006, 11:07 PM

Kevin,

O.K. you have video and audio one linked as normal, and you have manually synch'ed audio 2.

Why don't you click and drag to select all three tracks (draw a box around the tracks), then you can cut, insert, ripple or roll and they should all stay together.

I routinely do this, along with another mono mic source from an iriver and have no sync problems.

As for your automate to sequence problem, I don't use it any more. I just select all the clips i want in the project window and drag 'em to the timeline. They come in in the order you select them.

Kevin Janisch · February 7th, 2006, 12:18 PM

Mark,

Thanks for the reply but I don't think you're understanding my problem. Grouping the 3 files (Video1, Audio1, Audio2) is no problem. No problems with sync either. The problem comes when I go to put a video transition between 2 grouped clips. Now when I go into the effect controls to adjust the transition in and out points or move the video track, the Audio2 doesn't adjust. For example when you change where the video clip starts at the transition by dragging the clip left or right (effect controls window), you inherently change the clips duration, audio1's duration is automatically adjusted just like it would in any situation, but audio2 doesn't, thus messing up the sync. I've just come to accept using nested sequences. I've already put in a feature request with adobe.

As far as the automate to sequence, the problem isn't with Video1 or Audio1, that works as it should, but when you want to target your channel 3+4 sound file to Audio2 so it syncs, it just won't, it does an insert at the end of the insertion of Video1 and Audio1, ridiculous. A small complaint for just adding an extra step, but come on.

Kevin

Mark Whittle · February 7th, 2006, 07:33 PM

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Kevin.

The only other thing I can think of is if the clip needs to be shortened/lengthened after the transition is in place, it might be quicker just to delete the transition, adjust the clip with its grouped audio in the timeline and put the transition back. Fast if you're just dissolving, but a pain if it needs anything else.

What do you think the most elegant fix would be, the option to choose additional tracks to link together, like linking photoshop layers?

A pity we've missed the boat with PPro 2 released.

Mark

Kevin Janisch · February 8th, 2006, 03:44 PM

Mark,

Yup, being able to link multiple audio tracks to video would do it. I still can't believe it's not already there, or the fact that it doesn't behave accordingly with the group command.

I think I'll wait for Ppro 3, read the new features aren't that significant for ver 2. The non-conforming aspect is reason enough for me to save space and assumed time, but some people are stating that the ppro 2 still takes time to build the peak level preview (some said as much time as reg conforming) or whatever it is.

Kevin

February 1st, 2006, 06:48 PM	#1
Kevin Janisch Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 406	XL2 with 4-Channels of Audio in Premiere Pro (not a capture question) Excuse the post for being in the XL2 section, but I figured there was a better chance that a fellow operator would be able to help me. So I have captured my footage in Scenalyzer. I have 4 channels of audio (actually 3 as I used a mono mic via xlr) and I want the audio to stay synced. So I have 1 stereo channel in Audio1 in Premiere Pro and I have a mono clip in Audio2. I can group the 3 tracks (2 audio and 1 video) but when I add a transition to the video and tweak it (change in out points of transition), the audio in Audio2 does not re-adjust to the change I made in the transition (doesn't shift with it), of course Audio1 does. If I unlink Video1 and Audio1 and relink Video1 and Audio2, the behavior is the same, except it is now audio1 that doesn't adjust. Am I missing something? I know that I could probably create a sequence for each clip to avoid this problem (ridiculous in my opinion), but there has to be a simpler, right in front of me, answer, right? Any ideas? Many thanks. Kevin Kevin

February 5th, 2006, 11:07 PM	#5
Mark Whittle Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bunbury, Western Australia Posts: 153	Kevin, O.K. you have video and audio one linked as normal, and you have manually synch'ed audio 2. Why don't you click and drag to select all three tracks (draw a box around the tracks), then you can cut, insert, ripple or roll and they should all stay together. I routinely do this, along with another mono mic source from an iriver and have no sync problems. As for your automate to sequence problem, I don't use it any more. I just select all the clips i want in the project window and drag 'em to the timeline. They come in in the order you select them. __________________ MW

February 7th, 2006, 07:33 PM	#7
Mark Whittle Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bunbury, Western Australia Posts: 153	Sorry for the misunderstanding, Kevin. The only other thing I can think of is if the clip needs to be shortened/lengthened after the transition is in place, it might be quicker just to delete the transition, adjust the clip with its grouped audio in the timeline and put the transition back. Fast if you're just dissolving, but a pain if it needs anything else. What do you think the most elegant fix would be, the option to choose additional tracks to link together, like linking photoshop layers? A pity we've missed the boat with PPro 2 released. Mark __________________ MW

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February 2nd, 2006, 10:24 AM	#3
Barry Oppenheim Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 30	I agree with Greg. Place all of the audio and video into a "virgin" sequence. Make sure the audio and video are in sync and mix the audio using the audio mixer. Then lock down all of the tracks. Now you can insert/drag/nest this sequence into other sequences and edit the other sequences as needed. I routinely use this method for mixing an 8-track audio sequence into a single video/stereo audio track

February 2nd, 2006, 11:12 AM	#4
Kevin Janisch Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 406	Thanks guys. So there isn't any other way other than creating an individual sequence for each of my clips and then dropping those sequences into a master sequence. This seems rather cumbersome for just syncing the audio tracks to behave correctly when adding transitions. Sometimes I am simply amazed at what Premiere Pro can do, such as being able to import a project into After Effects and color correcting there (with nested sequences intact), and at other times I'm left scratching my head about what seems to be the simplest of problems, such as the aforementioned one along with the strange behavior of "automate to sequence" while selecting the 3+4 channel audio or even just the 3+4 channel audio (it always wants to insert onto Audio1 instead of Audio2 which I have selected, only way is to lock the Audio1 channel which is already populated). Then you can't have head and tail frames automated unless you have the video and/or transition selected, then why have an active check box when those options aren't selected? Strange and rather unintuitive. Been using since version 4 and although PPro 1.5 is far and above previous versions, I often find little things that just kill my work flow. Just a rant, enough said. Thanks once again.

February 7th, 2006, 12:18 PM	#6
Kevin Janisch Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 406	Mark, Thanks for the reply but I don't think you're understanding my problem. Grouping the 3 files (Video1, Audio1, Audio2) is no problem. No problems with sync either. The problem comes when I go to put a video transition between 2 grouped clips. Now when I go into the effect controls to adjust the transition in and out points or move the video track, the Audio2 doesn't adjust. For example when you change where the video clip starts at the transition by dragging the clip left or right (effect controls window), you inherently change the clips duration, audio1's duration is automatically adjusted just like it would in any situation, but audio2 doesn't, thus messing up the sync. I've just come to accept using nested sequences. I've already put in a feature request with adobe. As far as the automate to sequence, the problem isn't with Video1 or Audio1, that works as it should, but when you want to target your channel 3+4 sound file to Audio2 so it syncs, it just won't, it does an insert at the end of the insertion of Video1 and Audio1, ridiculous. A small complaint for just adding an extra step, but come on. Kevin

February 8th, 2006, 03:44 PM	#8
Kevin Janisch Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 406	Mark, Yup, being able to link multiple audio tracks to video would do it. I still can't believe it's not already there, or the fact that it doesn't behave accordingly with the group command. I think I'll wait for Ppro 3, read the new features aren't that significant for ver 2. The non-conforming aspect is reason enough for me to save space and assumed time, but some people are stating that the ppro 2 still takes time to build the peak level preview (some said as much time as reg conforming) or whatever it is. Kevin