What's Everyones Opinion of PPro2 ? at DVinfo.net

Paul Kepen · February 19th, 2006, 09:37 PM

hi, just wondering how happy the people are that have upgraded from PPro 1.5 to PPro2, and/or the full new Adobe Suite vs. the old one?

How does the natev HDV work, or is the Cineform codec still a must have?

Thanks

Steven Gotz · February 20th, 2006, 09:25 AM

I am slowly getting used to the changes.

And yes, Cineform Aspect HD is still a great idea. Try it for yourself, but my opinion is that Aspect HD is still necessary even though HDV is handled natively. Another reason is that After Effects does not handle HDV well (Adobe has a tech note on the subject admitting it).

The main advantage of the new software in my opinion is Dynamic Link between AE and PPro.

Pete Bauer · February 20th, 2006, 11:34 AM

I'm just starting to get familiar with Adobe Production Studio, but already must differ with some who've said that there isn't much to the upgrade. Yep, the interface looks comfortingly familiar, yet there are HUGE improvements both in the actual workings of the interface and under the hood. I've already run into two or three enhancements that made me go "Wow, if only I'd had that feature in my last project, it would have saved me HOURS of work!"

I guess if a person is doing fairly straightforward editing and an earlier version of Premiere is doing the trick, there's no great reason to rush to upgrade...but people doing more sophisticated compositing and so forth using multiple Suite/Studio applications will love the upgrade.

As an aside...
For those with a Canon XL H1, it looks like Cineform would be almost mandatory. Reports by others who have tried native HDV editing do indicate that performance still isn't good even with a fast system. And in any case it appears that the H1's "F modes" (recorded to tape as progressive frames, not NTSC or PAL standard interlaced fields) are not supported by Adobe, whereas Cineform takes them smoothly into the timeline with good performance. I was surprised that the XL H1 isn't even listed in the Devices dialog list, nor is it mentioned along with "new HDV cameras by Sony and JVC." Since I do use Cineform Aspect HD, I don't know for sure whether 24F, 25F, or 30F can be captured at all through PPro but I'm guessing not...anyone tried it?

But anyway, although I'm reserving final judgment since I've spent so little time yet with Production Studio, it is looking really good so far.

Chris Barcellos · February 20th, 2006, 12:26 PM

I did a simple fun "grandcildren" music video editing in native hdv from my FX1. I used three or four transitions, and pushed the contrast up high, and it seemed to workout pretty nice. I didn't actually pay attention to the time it took to render back to .m2t, but it didn't seem to take longer than 10 or 12 minutes to render the 3 1/2 minute video- which included adding a sound track from a cd.

I'm liking 2.0 more and more, and still don't like the idea of moving to Vegas.

Hugh DiMauro · February 20th, 2006, 12:49 PM

I love it! If I can just get it to recognize my DVD burner I'll be golden. Any help on that? Here's the thread!

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=61030

Sheila Ward · February 24th, 2006, 10:17 PM

I've only had the Production Studio upgrade a week so I haven't fully put it to the test, but I can tell you 2 things that are definitely worth the upgrade for me:

Dynamic Link
Clip notes

Dynamic Link saves so much time when using Premiere, After Effects and Audition. Less rendering, more productivity.

Clip notes will not be beneficial to everyone, but it's a great way to communicate with clients and get feedback faster. Plus, the clients think it's cool, which never hurts :-)

Yossi Margolin · February 25th, 2006, 10:58 PM

Seems to me that PPro 2.0 takes MUCH longer to render still images (or maybe I'm doing something wrong)

Jonathan Nicholas · February 26th, 2006, 07:12 AM

Layout thing is good.

Not tried the multicam yet.

Doesn't work with my dvstorm yet :(

However the new transparant video clip doesn't work as advertised. This I'm really disappointed with. It only works the self generating effects (like a lens flare) If I want to colour boost a selection of clips, the effect will not work on transparant video, I have to do the same as before - nest the sequence or apply the effect to each clip.

Jon

Miguel Lombana · February 26th, 2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kepen

hi, just wondering how happy the people are that have upgraded from PPro 1.5 to PPro2, and/or the full new Adobe Suite vs. the old one?

How does the natev HDV work, or is the Cineform codec still a must have?

Thanks

I still run 2 versions but that's mostly because I have a Canopus card that won't work in 2.0 but I have been doing project in both now and am starting to ween myself off of 1.51.

Overall I really like the new interface and the way that you can dock windows to a very custom desktop. This was something that you could do in 1.51 but for some reason seems to work better in 2.0 with 2 monitors.

The multicam feature is nice but far from perfect since it only allows you to run with the audio placed in A1, in a recent event that I shot, I had 4 audio tracks and the software forced me to use A1 for cutting which in this case had no audio, so I had to drop that sequence into a new sequence and bring the audio tracks in there and match them all up, more of a pain than pleasure. This ultimatly turned something that would take about 30 minutes in Pro 1.51 into a full day in 2.0, learning curve or not the feature is flawed.

I don't use the capture, I use Scenealyzer so that's no help to ya, I also don't edit HDV (yet) but my understanding is that it's supposed to tackle it fairly well. My job has Avid Express Pro 5 which allows for HDV, DVcam, DV and others in the same project at the same time, for some reason I don't think that 2.0 will be so multifunctional but when I get a chance I'll test and let ya know. Based on what I've read here however, even HDV still calls for a plug-in.

Integration with the other products in the suite is really nice but a major CPU killer, and aside from Clipnotes (which I actually used the other day) there are really no other compelling reasons to spend the extra money, especially if you're using 1.51 and happy with it.

One major issue that I did run into, I just did a backup image of my machine and upgraded the OS to Window x64 and found that just about everything works perfectly until I dropped a Magic Bullet Effect (Magic Bullet 2.0 Editors for Premier) and the second that I pressed play, BAM, crash. I've checked the MB site, but for now, no info on this.

Miguel

David Lach · March 7th, 2006, 09:51 AM

Almost everything about it is great so far, but they haven't fixed the biggest problem of all, exporting back to tape 24p footage. Actually it's worse than before.

In 1.5, you would get random static noises when exporting back some true 24p 16:9 footage back to tape. Now, not only is there static noises, but the video also jumps back and forth from 16:9 to 4:3 aspect ratio every half second or so.

I'm so disapointed Adobe didn't fix this. Do they not know this is a problem?

Aside from that, so far so good, Everything you need for simple editing is there and works well. I never got accustomed to Avid Xpress' interface so I decided to stick with PPro.

I was planing on getting After Effects 7 as well but I'll wait to see if I find a workaround for this problem first (or if Adobe comes out with a patch, not holding my breath). Every music video and fictional movie I shoot is shot 24p. I need to find a way to master this back to tape in true 24p.

Hugh DiMauro · March 7th, 2006, 11:25 AM

I like the interface, the layout, the integration with the other Adobe programs. According to D.W. Leitner in his Matrox Axio review (2/06 Video Systems Magazine), Adobe 2.0 is the new FCP for Windows XP. I believe it.

Steve Shilson · March 8th, 2006, 11:03 AM

Used it for the first time last night and loved it! Me being a Vegas6.0d user when it comes to my freelance and Premiere Pro when working at the production company, I find that 2.0 is not only nicer on the eyes. . .the changes of the interface have definately changed for the better. I'm that much closer to actually switching to the whole Adobe Package at home aswell. . .which is something I never thought I would do.

Peter Ferling · March 8th, 2006, 04:56 PM

So far it sounds like a winner. Too bad I'm neck deep in projects to upgrade yet. How does the application work with projects created in 1.5, any quirks?

David Lach · March 8th, 2006, 11:17 PM

Little update, I found an other problem. Created a 24p DVD yesterday and the audio was no longer synched with the video. In fact, the audio was fine, but the image was sped up. In other words, it looks like the DVD was playing the 24fps at 30fps while keeping the audio unalterned. This is a bug that was not present in 1.5.

Jesus never have I loved and hated at the same time a program as much as I do with PPro. It's just like women. Can't live with them, can't live without them. Oh the humanity! Here's hoping I find a work around (Adobe are pretty lame, they had ample time working the 24p problems between 1.5 and 2.0. Instead, they created complete new bugs altogether).

Matthew Nayman · March 9th, 2006, 07:28 AM

How does it handle 24p shot in 2:3 (on an XL2)? My adobe premiere 1.5 would capture it as 23.976 as opposed 29.97.... I hope this has been fixed...

Matt

February 19th, 2006, 09:37 PM	#1
Paul Kepen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minneapolis Minnesota Posts: 347	What's Everyones Opinion of PPro2 ? hi, just wondering how happy the people are that have upgraded from PPro 1.5 to PPro2, and/or the full new Adobe Suite vs. the old one? How does the natev HDV work, or is the Cineform codec still a must have? Thanks

February 20th, 2006, 09:25 AM	#2
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	I am slowly getting used to the changes. And yes, Cineform Aspect HD is still a great idea. Try it for yourself, but my opinion is that Aspect HD is still necessary even though HDV is handled natively. Another reason is that After Effects does not handle HDV well (Adobe has a tech note on the subject admitting it). The main advantage of the new software in my opinion is Dynamic Link between AE and PPro. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

February 20th, 2006, 11:34 AM	#3
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	I'm just starting to get familiar with Adobe Production Studio, but already must differ with some who've said that there isn't much to the upgrade. Yep, the interface looks comfortingly familiar, yet there are HUGE improvements both in the actual workings of the interface and under the hood. I've already run into two or three enhancements that made me go "Wow, if only I'd had that feature in my last project, it would have saved me HOURS of work!" I guess if a person is doing fairly straightforward editing and an earlier version of Premiere is doing the trick, there's no great reason to rush to upgrade...but people doing more sophisticated compositing and so forth using multiple Suite/Studio applications will love the upgrade. As an aside... For those with a Canon XL H1, it looks like Cineform would be almost mandatory. Reports by others who have tried native HDV editing do indicate that performance still isn't good even with a fast system. And in any case it appears that the H1's "F modes" (recorded to tape as progressive frames, not NTSC or PAL standard interlaced fields) are not supported by Adobe, whereas Cineform takes them smoothly into the timeline with good performance. I was surprised that the XL H1 isn't even listed in the Devices dialog list, nor is it mentioned along with "new HDV cameras by Sony and JVC." Since I do use Cineform Aspect HD, I don't know for sure whether 24F, 25F, or 30F can be captured at all through PPro but I'm guessing not...anyone tried it? But anyway, although I'm reserving final judgment since I've spent so little time yet with Production Studio, it is looking really good so far. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

February 20th, 2006, 12:26 PM	#4
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Native HDV Editing I did a simple fun "grandcildren" music video editing in native hdv from my FX1. I used three or four transitions, and pushed the contrast up high, and it seemed to workout pretty nice. I didn't actually pay attention to the time it took to render back to .m2t, but it didn't seem to take longer than 10 or 12 minutes to render the 3 1/2 minute video- which included adding a sound track from a cd. I'm liking 2.0 more and more, and still don't like the idea of moving to Vegas. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

February 20th, 2006, 12:49 PM	#5
Hugh DiMauro Trustee Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,205	I love it! If I can just get it to recognize my DVD burner I'll be golden. Any help on that? Here's the thread! http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=61030 __________________ Interesting, if true. And interesting anyway.

February 24th, 2006, 10:17 PM	#6
Sheila Ward Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 107	I've only had the Production Studio upgrade a week so I haven't fully put it to the test, but I can tell you 2 things that are definitely worth the upgrade for me: Dynamic Link Clip notes Dynamic Link saves so much time when using Premiere, After Effects and Audition. Less rendering, more productivity. Clip notes will not be beneficial to everyone, but it's a great way to communicate with clients and get feedback faster. Plus, the clients think it's cool, which never hurts :-)

February 25th, 2006, 10:58 PM	#7
Yossi Margolin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 85	Still images Seems to me that PPro 2.0 takes MUCH longer to render still images (or maybe I'm doing something wrong)

February 26th, 2006, 07:12 AM	#8
Jonathan Nicholas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 90	Layout thing is good. Not tried the multicam yet. Doesn't work with my dvstorm yet :( However the new transparant video clip doesn't work as advertised. This I'm really disappointed with. It only works the self generating effects (like a lens flare) If I want to colour boost a selection of clips, the effect will not work on transparant video, I have to do the same as before - nest the sequence or apply the effect to each clip. Jon

March 7th, 2006, 09:51 AM	#10
David Lach Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Posts: 570	Almost everything about it is great so far, but they haven't fixed the biggest problem of all, exporting back to tape 24p footage. Actually it's worse than before. In 1.5, you would get random static noises when exporting back some true 24p 16:9 footage back to tape. Now, not only is there static noises, but the video also jumps back and forth from 16:9 to 4:3 aspect ratio every half second or so. I'm so disapointed Adobe didn't fix this. Do they not know this is a problem? Aside from that, so far so good, Everything you need for simple editing is there and works well. I never got accustomed to Avid Xpress' interface so I decided to stick with PPro. I was planing on getting After Effects 7 as well but I'll wait to see if I find a workaround for this problem first (or if Adobe comes out with a patch, not holding my breath). Every music video and fictional movie I shoot is shot 24p. I need to find a way to master this back to tape in true 24p.

March 7th, 2006, 11:25 AM	#11
Hugh DiMauro Trustee Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,205	I like the interface, the layout, the integration with the other Adobe programs. According to D.W. Leitner in his Matrox Axio review (2/06 Video Systems Magazine), Adobe 2.0 is the new FCP for Windows XP. I believe it. __________________ Interesting, if true. And interesting anyway.

March 8th, 2006, 11:03 AM	#12
Steve Shilson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Windsor, Ontario Canada Posts: 49	Used it for the first time last night and loved it! Me being a Vegas6.0d user when it comes to my freelance and Premiere Pro when working at the production company, I find that 2.0 is not only nicer on the eyes. . .the changes of the interface have definately changed for the better. I'm that much closer to actually switching to the whole Adobe Package at home aswell. . .which is something I never thought I would do.

March 8th, 2006, 04:56 PM	#13
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	So far it sounds like a winner. Too bad I'm neck deep in projects to upgrade yet. How does the application work with projects created in 1.5, any quirks?

March 8th, 2006, 11:17 PM	#14
David Lach Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Posts: 570	Little update, I found an other problem. Created a 24p DVD yesterday and the audio was no longer synched with the video. In fact, the audio was fine, but the image was sped up. In other words, it looks like the DVD was playing the 24fps at 30fps while keeping the audio unalterned. This is a bug that was not present in 1.5. Jesus never have I loved and hated at the same time a program as much as I do with PPro. It's just like women. Can't live with them, can't live without them. Oh the humanity! Here's hoping I find a work around (Adobe are pretty lame, they had ample time working the 24p problems between 1.5 and 2.0. Instead, they created complete new bugs altogether).

March 9th, 2006, 07:28 AM	#15
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	How does it handle 24p shot in 2:3 (on an XL2)? My adobe premiere 1.5 would capture it as 23.976 as opposed 29.97.... I hope this has been fixed... Matt

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