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Old June 11th, 2006, 11:14 PM   #1
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Slight ghosting issue on DVD's burned with Ppro. ???

Greetings

I'm seing some ghosting artifacts in burned DVD's. The ghosting is faint but clearly evident on darker scenes when the camera is panning.

I'm using PP 2.0 with the the burn quality set to max and no noise reduction.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
JohnG
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Old June 12th, 2006, 12:09 PM   #2
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Is this ghosting visible at all on the original video tape?

It sounds more like a camera issue. What we use to call lag in the old tube camera days. You can still see this effect with todays CCD cameras when you pan with a slow (wide open) shutter as you probably had if you were shooting under dark conditions.
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Old June 12th, 2006, 02:46 PM   #3
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Try APPro's default settings instead of max... it may be that the DVD player can't handle the high bitrate.
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Old June 12th, 2006, 03:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ervin Farkas
Try APPro's default settings instead of max... it may be that the DVD player can't handle the high bitrate.
Interesting......................... The "quality" defaulted to the max setting. I think it might have said 1 Mb/sec.

Anyway, I'll check the video quality with a direct connect between the camera and and plasma. If it that looks good, I'll try a lower bit-rate DVD burn.

Thanks!!!
JohnG
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Old June 12th, 2006, 04:42 PM   #5
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Not sure if the plasmas do this but some flat screens can have a slight lag with highlights (bright scenes) over dark areas.

It may not be video but the display doing the smearing!

Try the DVD with a CRT screen and look for the lag.
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Old June 12th, 2006, 08:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Odell
Not sure if the plasmas do this but some flat screens can have a slight lag with highlights (bright scenes) over dark areas.

It may not be video but the display doing the smearing!

Try the DVD with a CRT screen and look for the lag.
George

I have a Pani plasma and it doesn't exibit the type of smearing that I'm seeing.

According to my video partner the raw tape doesn't exibit the smearing. I'll pick up the tape and confirm this for myself on the Pani plasma.

Next step would be a new burn with the 'quality' set to something less than the maximum. Any suggestions on a good setting?

edit: OK, I tried a bunch of different bit rates and the smearing effect was evident in all copies.

I've got another idea: My DVD 'player' is setup for upconverting to 1080i on the component output. I suspect the native 480i burned to the disks are not compatable with the upconverter HW/SW. ??? I'm going to try setting up my DVD player for "normal" output and see how that looks.

Thanks again
JohnG
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Last edited by John Godden; June 13th, 2006 at 09:11 AM.
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Old June 13th, 2006, 10:30 AM   #7
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John,

I found those settings confusing myself... Generally, 4 MB/sec is considered the lowest acceptable quality for a DVD, 6 MB/sec is good while 8 MB/sec is the maximum. You will find most Hollywood productions encoded somewhere in the middle, depending on the length of the movie. (1 MB/sec is definitely out of question).

Keep in mind that PPro will go back to the last used settings (that's the "default"), so you may need to set the bitrate again by choosing the quality.
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Old June 13th, 2006, 12:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ervin Farkas
I found those settings confusing myself... Generally, 4 MB/sec is considered the lowest acceptable quality for a DVD, 6 MB/sec is good while 8 MB/sec is the maximum. You will find most Hollywood productions encoded somewhere in the middle, depending on the length of the movie. (1 MB/sec is definitely out of question).

Keep in mind that PPro will go back to the last used settings (that's the "default"), so you may need to set the bitrate again by choosing the quality.
Okay, maybe I'm nitpicking, but MB=megabytes. What you really meant was Mb or Mbit (megabits). 8 megabits equals 1 megabyte, so you can see there's a definite difference between the two. The maximum legal datarate of a DVD is 10.08 Mbps (megabits per second).
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Old June 14th, 2006, 07:01 AM   #9
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1,048,576 to be more precise, Christopher.

Of course I meant megabits per second... thank you for clarifying that.
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Old June 14th, 2006, 11:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ervin Farkas
1,048,576 to be more precise, Christopher.

Of course I meant megabits per second... thank you for clarifying that.

Ugh, I goofed on the bit-rate in one of my original posts. Bit rate was up around 10 Mb/sec. I tried a bunch of different bit rates and all of the DVD's came out with this shimmering/ghosting effect.

--------------------------------------------------------------
More info: My video partner now tells me that the raw tape has some shimmering. Ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!! Perhaps the original file is goofed. ???

Anyway, I'll have the tape back in my grubby hands on Thursday evening so I'll know for sure.

Can SD DV "break-up" when shooting VERY high spatial frequencies? I.e. tree leaves and shinny rocky trails. This video captured during a hike up a rocky trail and it really looks like the video is just 'breaking-down'. Camera was a Sony HC-90 with steady-shot enabled.

Thanks again
JohnG
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Old June 15th, 2006, 12:54 AM   #11
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Go here http://www.dvformat.com/htm/features...format_faq.htm
and scroll down to the "DV artifacts" section: mosquito noise, quilting, and motion blocking.

Are any of these what you are seeing?
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Old June 15th, 2006, 09:01 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Hickling
Go here http://www.dvformat.com/htm/features...format_faq.htm
and scroll down to the "DV artifacts" section: mosquito noise, quilting, and motion blocking.

Are any of these what you are seeing?
Graham

Thanks for posting that good link.

I'm seeing slight to moderate 'motion blocking' on the burned DVD. This effect is only seen when the scene is moving.......... either because the camera is panning or the leaves of the trees are moving.

I'm also seeing some shimmering between frames: perhaps this is the 'feathering or mosquito noise' as described in that FAQ. ??? This image problem is VERY apparent when stepping through the DVD frame by frame. I tried a commercial DVD and saw nothing like this effect. Very smooth from frame to frame so I doubt the problem is in my DVD player.

I'm going to review the raw tape tonight and see if the video output is as bad as the DVD. I'm a little perplexed and miffed right now.

Regards
JohnG
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Old June 18th, 2006, 07:33 PM   #13
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update on DVD issues

OK, I finally got my hands on the original tape.

The tape (played from the original Sony HC-90) exhibits most of the "ghosting/dithering" issues that I originally posted about the DVD.

*** The DVD does appear to have somewhat more "ghosting/dithering" than the original tape but the source is definately compromised to a large degree. If I had to make a subjective comparison I'd say that the source is a 5 and the DVD is a 4 on a scale of 1-10 (10 being perfect). Hmmmmmmm, I'm going to have to rethink this DV issue a lot more when it comes to high spatial frequencies.

I'm really not sure where to go with this issue at this point. Unless there is a setting issue with the camera I may just be screwed when it comes to DV for this type of source. ???

Thanks for the suggestions and any in the future.
JohnG
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