Premiere Pro support for Canon XL H1 at DVinfo.net

Terry Johnson · April 5th, 2006, 02:15 PM

I recorded a clip with the Canon XL-H1 camera using the HDV 4 audio channel recording option. In the camera VCR Play mode it was verified that 4 channels of audio were recorded. The clip was then captured (HDV Capture) into PP 2.0 in the HDV 1080i editing mode; however only 2 channels of audio were captured.

Has anyone else tested this function? Any ideas? Help!

***

I got this response on the Premiere Pro HDV user to user Site:

***
Steven Gotz - 4:49am Apr 5, 06 PST (#1 of 1)

http://www.stevengotz.com/premiere

Not supported. Just like the SD versions of the similar Canon cameras. I have no idea how you are going to get those other two channels out. Sorry.
***

Are there any other programs which can be used to capture all four channels of audio which can be recorded by the camera when in the HDV recording mode. I would like to use channels 1 & 2 to record audio near the camera and channels 3 & 4 to record audio from a remote wireless mike.

Barlow Elton · April 5th, 2006, 02:40 PM

You could try demuxing the m2t's with MPEG Streamclip and see if there's 4 channels of audio there.

Steven Gotz · April 5th, 2006, 02:44 PM

Thankfully, there are other ways to capture from Canon SD cameras that give you the first two channels in the regular AVI and two more in a WAV file. But that program does not capture HDV.

If anyone has any ideas, it would be great to hear about them.

Steven Dempsey · June 28th, 2006, 05:19 PM

http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...atform=Windows

Chris Hurd · June 28th, 2006, 05:37 PM

Great news, thanks for posting this Steven!

The exact link is http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...jsp?ftpID=3408

"Editing presets for Canon Progressive-scan HDV cameras: this update provides presets that enable Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0 to edit progressive-scan HDV video recorded with the Canon XL-H1 camera. Supported frame modes: 24F, 25F, and 30F. Note: Export to tape is not supported for 24F content."

Maybe not perfect, but better than nothing. So now Canopus Edius is no longer the only PC-based NLE that supports Canon's Frame modes in HDV.

Christopher Glaeser · June 28th, 2006, 11:06 PM

Sweet! Is it now possible to view 24F, 25F, and 30F on a Xena card via HD-SDI using Premiere Pro 2? Aspect HD does not support this feature.

Best,
Christopher

Steven Dempsey · June 28th, 2006, 11:15 PM

I haven't had a chance to look at it yet but if all it means is that you can edit the raw m2t files natively, it's not going to be of much use because of the quick degradation of editing native HDV files. If it converts it to an intermediary avi or equivalent, then that's another story.

Either way, it's nice that Adobe is supporting the camera.

Christopher Glaeser · June 28th, 2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Dempsey

I haven't had a chance to look at it yet but if all it means is that you can edit the raw m2t files natively,

I tested a quick small project, and I don't think there's any conversion, just the ability to edit the F modes using native HDV editing. However, as you mentioned, it's a nice step forward for Adobe/Canon.

Regarding the HD-SDI cards for HDTV monitoring, it would be nice if you could use these cards with Premiere Pro 2 so that a more flexible upgrade path is available. As it stands now, the Xena cards require Prospect HD Edit to monitor which is about a $3,000 investment ($1,000 for the card and $2,000 for Prospect HD Edit). Would be nice if you could upgrade these items separately.

Best,
Christopher

Harri Raisa · July 8th, 2006, 12:06 AM

Has anybody tested Matrox RT.X2 or Axio LE with H1?

Harri

John Richard · July 12th, 2006, 09:11 AM

Re: the AJA Xena card/Cineform ProspectHD/Prem Pro 2 solution for HD-SDI:

1. Go to Cineform's site - they are offering a bundle special now that is $1,000 off the normal price for the Xena card and codec.

2. Make sure to purchase the "Ingest" version of ProspectHD if you are capturing to a hard drive - not just the "Edit" version.

3. The AJA Xena has a brand new driver that is supposed to resolve some of the .avi file issues people were experiencing.

I've not personally used any of this yet, but looks like the solution we will go for. Just watching for all the actual practical in-use experiences before jumping off.... thanks to those with more courage.

Pete Bauer · July 12th, 2006, 10:29 AM

But to get back on topic about Adobe's native support for the XL H1 (there's a dedicated Cineform forum to discuss the particulars of Aspect and Prospect), I'm just finishing up editing a simple two camera XL H1 shoot in 30F. I decided to try the new presets and found that two camera multi-cam editing was a breeze on my fairly fast system (Athlon X2 +4800 w/ 3GB RAM).

I haven't critically compared it directly to the same project in Cineform AVI, but I'm quite satisfied with the results -- realizing that this was a simple project...almost no effects and only a few simple cross-disolve transitions. The fact that as soon as the capture is done I'm ready to edit -- no wait for Cineform conversion and no conversion glitches -- made me happy; I just did the capture and the *.mpg files were ready for audio conforming and editing.

Now, the issues I'm seeing with Adobe Media Encoder are fodder for another thread in another forum!

John Richard · July 12th, 2006, 04:30 PM

PremPro2 "native" m2t ingest, edit/CC/effects-transitions/titles, output (the full workflow) just seems to be an extremely limited solution currently. Limits:
-poor scrubbing response
-very limited effects/transitions
-lacking real time
-H1's 24f no output (so what would you do with your finished edit from there?)
-output to an external monitor drops frames, drops resolution
Having worked with the Canopus Edius NLE which does have full support for the all of the above including 24f I don't think the comparison of the very limited "native" PremPro2 is a good picture. PremPro2 requires a card and intermediate codec to really be a viable editing solution. "Native" is one tough frustrating way to go currently IMHO.

Pete Bauer · July 12th, 2006, 07:56 PM

We weren't comparing Edius and PPro. There are some existing threads elsewhere on DVi discussing Edius, though. In any case, a lot of people do use native PPro editing at present, and the new presets are a welcome addition.

Marty Hudzik · July 12th, 2006, 08:30 PM

So you could output an HDV project back to tape if you do not edit in 24f...is this correct. It isn't ideal but sometimes is could come in handy to send a finished project back to tape....just to have a backup to backup. Meaning of course that a cineform version or something better than HDV exists on a HD backup also.

Are there any other ways to output a 24F HDV file back to tape outside of premiere?

John Richard · July 13th, 2006, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Maybe not perfect, but better than nothing. So now Canopus Edius is no longer the only PC-based NLE that supports Canon's Frame modes in HDV.

Just wanted to provide a little further detail so folks would not get in trouble thinking the PremPro2 native HDV vs Edius was an apples-to-apples comparison. It's apples and oranges.

It would be cool if Adobe gets to that level and their own intermediate codec - wished they had not dropped Aspect when going from 1.5 to 2.0
Maybe they're coming with their own? Native editing of long GOP's just doesn't seem like the path to go down.

April 5th, 2006, 02:44 PM	#3
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Thankfully, there are other ways to capture from Canon SD cameras that give you the first two channels in the regular AVI and two more in a WAV file. But that program does not capture HDV. If anyone has any ideas, it would be great to hear about them. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

June 28th, 2006, 05:19 PM	#4
Steven Dempsey Disjecta Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 937	Premiere Pro 2.0 adds support for XLH1 http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...atform=Windows __________________ Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/

June 28th, 2006, 05:37 PM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Great news, thanks for posting this Steven! The exact link is http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...jsp?ftpID=3408 "Editing presets for Canon Progressive-scan HDV cameras: this update provides presets that enable Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0 to edit progressive-scan HDV video recorded with the Canon XL-H1 camera. Supported frame modes: 24F, 25F, and 30F. Note: Export to tape is not supported for 24F content." Maybe not perfect, but better than nothing. So now Canopus Edius is no longer the only PC-based NLE that supports Canon's Frame modes in HDV. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 28th, 2006, 11:15 PM	#7
Steven Dempsey Disjecta Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Seattle, Washington Posts: 937	I haven't had a chance to look at it yet but if all it means is that you can edit the raw m2t files natively, it's not going to be of much use because of the quick degradation of editing native HDV files. If it converts it to an intermediary avi or equivalent, then that's another story. Either way, it's nice that Adobe is supporting the camera. __________________ Try my Digital Therapy: http://www.pinelakefilms.com/digital_therapy.html Films on ExposureRoom: http://exposureroom.com/members/disjecta.aspx/videos/

July 12th, 2006, 10:29 AM	#11
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	But to get back on topic about Adobe's native support for the XL H1 (there's a dedicated Cineform forum to discuss the particulars of Aspect and Prospect), I'm just finishing up editing a simple two camera XL H1 shoot in 30F. I decided to try the new presets and found that two camera multi-cam editing was a breeze on my fairly fast system (Athlon X2 +4800 w/ 3GB RAM). I haven't critically compared it directly to the same project in Cineform AVI, but I'm quite satisfied with the results -- realizing that this was a simple project...almost no effects and only a few simple cross-disolve transitions. The fact that as soon as the capture is done I'm ready to edit -- no wait for Cineform conversion and no conversion glitches -- made me happy; I just did the capture and the .mpg files were ready for audio conforming and editing. Now, the issues I'm seeing with Adobe Media Encoder are fodder for another thread in another forum! __________________ Pete Bauer* The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

April 5th, 2006, 02:15 PM	#1
Terry Johnson New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 19	Premiere Pro support for Canon XL H1 I recorded a clip with the Canon XL-H1 camera using the HDV 4 audio channel recording option. In the camera VCR Play mode it was verified that 4 channels of audio were recorded. The clip was then captured (HDV Capture) into PP 2.0 in the HDV 1080i editing mode; however only 2 channels of audio were captured. Has anyone else tested this function? Any ideas? Help! * I got this response on the Premiere Pro HDV user to user Site: * Steven Gotz - 4:49am Apr 5, 06 PST (#1 of 1) http://www.stevengotz.com/premiere Not supported. Just like the SD versions of the similar Canon cameras. I have no idea how you are going to get those other two channels out. Sorry. *** Are there any other programs which can be used to capture all four channels of audio which can be recorded by the camera when in the HDV recording mode. I would like to use channels 1 & 2 to record audio near the camera and channels 3 & 4 to record audio from a remote wireless mike.

April 5th, 2006, 02:40 PM	#2
Barlow Elton Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UT Posts: 945	You could try demuxing the m2t's with MPEG Streamclip and see if there's 4 channels of audio there.

June 28th, 2006, 11:06 PM	#6
Christopher Glaeser Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Pleasanton, CA Posts: 258	Sweet! Is it now possible to view 24F, 25F, and 30F on a Xena card via HD-SDI using Premiere Pro 2? Aspect HD does not support this feature. Best, Christopher

July 8th, 2006, 12:06 AM	#9
Harri Raisa Tourist Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Mikkeli, Finland Posts: 3	Has anybody tested Matrox RT.X2 or Axio LE with H1? Harri

July 12th, 2006, 09:11 AM	#10
John Richard Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Incline Village, Nevada Posts: 604	Re: the AJA Xena card/Cineform ProspectHD/Prem Pro 2 solution for HD-SDI: 1. Go to Cineform's site - they are offering a bundle special now that is $1,000 off the normal price for the Xena card and codec. 2. Make sure to purchase the "Ingest" version of ProspectHD if you are capturing to a hard drive - not just the "Edit" version. 3. The AJA Xena has a brand new driver that is supposed to resolve some of the .avi file issues people were experiencing. I've not personally used any of this yet, but looks like the solution we will go for. Just watching for all the actual practical in-use experiences before jumping off.... thanks to those with more courage.

July 12th, 2006, 04:30 PM	#12
John Richard Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Incline Village, Nevada Posts: 604	PremPro2 "native" m2t ingest, edit/CC/effects-transitions/titles, output (the full workflow) just seems to be an extremely limited solution currently. Limits: -poor scrubbing response -very limited effects/transitions -lacking real time -H1's 24f no output (so what would you do with your finished edit from there?) -output to an external monitor drops frames, drops resolution Having worked with the Canopus Edius NLE which does have full support for the all of the above including 24f I don't think the comparison of the very limited "native" PremPro2 is a good picture. PremPro2 requires a card and intermediate codec to really be a viable editing solution. "Native" is one tough frustrating way to go currently IMHO.

July 12th, 2006, 07:56 PM	#13
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	We weren't comparing Edius and PPro. There are some existing threads elsewhere on DVi discussing Edius, though. In any case, a lot of people do use native PPro editing at present, and the new presets are a welcome addition. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

July 12th, 2006, 08:30 PM	#14
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	So you could output an HDV project back to tape if you do not edit in 24f...is this correct. It isn't ideal but sometimes is could come in handy to send a finished project back to tape....just to have a backup to backup. Meaning of course that a cineform version or something better than HDV exists on a HD backup also. Are there any other ways to output a 24F HDV file back to tape outside of premiere?