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Old August 5th, 2006, 09:36 AM   #1
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Workflow question inside Premiere...

I'm reading a book about Premiere Pro 2.0 by Jeff Schell from lynda.com. It starts out pretty basic (I can usually still pick something new up, though..), but one of the first things it talks about is workflow using the source monitor. Jeff says you drag your clips to the source monitor, set In and Out points, and then drag the clip from the Source Monitor to your sequence (subclips are mentioned later). Is this a standard workflow for people using Premiere? My SOP is to drag (tape-length) clips to a sequence right away, and slice-and-dice from there without worrying about In and Out points (other than performing rolling edits--GOD those are great things!). I don't think I've ever used the source monitor except by accidentally double-clicking an asset instead of a sequence...

Anyhow, I'm just curious if I'm short-cutting a vital part of the workflow, or if I really *should* use the Source Monitor to set In and Out points....what do other people do that yields great results?

Thanks,
Matt
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Old August 5th, 2006, 09:47 AM   #2
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A different way...

Matt,

Since I helped do the technical edit on that book, I am biased. But even so, I believe that using the source monitor is the fastest way with some practice.

I used to do it your way. I changed to using the source monitor. I don't have to close gaps, I have a better idea of where my transition points will be, and I don't have to delete audio I don't plan to use.

For example. If I cut clips on the sequence, I then have to trim them back 30 frames on each end and close the gap. Then delete the audio if I don't want it.

If I use the source monitor, I decide what I want to use, move in 30 frames and set the in point. Same for the out point. So when I take it to the sequence, it is ready to butt up against the previous clip and I only take the audio if I want it.

Both ways work, but I think you will find Jeff's way faster once you master it.
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Old August 5th, 2006, 10:13 AM   #3
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I'm also having some issues with the workflow, especially cutting, both in the source window and the timeline. I'm used to working like you, bring in the huge clip on the timeline, and start trimming the fat. The shortcut for the razor tool is Control K. But you need to select each clip you want to cut, which means moving your fingers from the keyboard to the mouse. So much for making it easier, I could have just selected the razor tool and cut it manually with the mouse.

The source wind might be easier, if I could figure out how to do the same process using several in and out points. However, it seems like I am forced to do it one at a time, cut, move to the timeline, back to the source window to set new points.

My suggestion is lots of coffee and patience. Just do it, ya know?
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Old August 5th, 2006, 11:28 AM   #4
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Matt, i used to bring the whole movie down to the Timeline as well. I decided to use the Source Window in a project when i used PPro 1.5 and has never looked back.

Learn the keyboard shortcuts for In Point, Out Point, Go to In Point, Go to Out Point, Clear In Point, Clear Out Point, Clear In/Out Point, Insert Edit, Overlay Edit, Toggle Source/Program View, Trim Window, JKL-commands for playback, and how to target video and audio tracks and you will see that it really speeds up your editing when using the Source Window/Panel in PPro. With those shortcuts you rarely have to use your mouse when editing, thats why i recommend them. :)

Using the Source Window/Panel in PPro is so powerful once you get the hang of it, with or without using any keyboard shortcuts!

In Point=I
Out Point=O
Go to In Point=Q
Go to Out Point=W
Clear In Point=D
Clear Out Point=F
Clear In/Out Point=G
Insert Edit=,
Overlay Edit=.
Trim Window=Ctrl+T
Target Video=Ctrl++ or Ctrl+-
Target Audio=Ctrl+Shift++ ot Ctrl+Shift+-
J=Play backwards
K=Stop
L=Play forward
Toggle Source/Program View=Hum, i dont know the shortcut on a US keyboard since i use a Swedish keyboard. Go to Edit > Keyboard Customization and scroll down and you will find it.

Ctrl+Z to undo something comes in handy as well sometimes... ;)

/Roger
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Old August 5th, 2006, 11:30 AM   #5
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Steven,
I saw your name in there, which is one of the reasons I bought the book (Seriously!! nose all clean...)

I don't understand why you would need to leave 30 frame buffers and then take those out. It could be the nature of your shots, I guess. Usually, I'll watch the video(s) on the sequence, do a snip, ripple delete, and transition. For multi-camera shots, the rolling edit is just a god-send for getting cut transitions just right, and even for adjusting cuts covered by dissolves. Of course, I get most everything on one track, with titles, overlays, PIP, etc., on their own tracks...I still haven't figured out how to do a nice cross-dissolve between two clips on separate tracks (can it even be done?).

Now, with the sub-clips thing, I can definitely see the use of previewing/clipping in the source monitor first. Unfortunately I haven't installed PPro 2.0 yet as I'm in the middle of two projects. When I do install it, I'll give the source monitor workflow a look-see and serious consideration. Also, since this is the first book I'm readding on PPro, I doubt I've had opportunity to be exposed to this workflow before...

Thanks,
Matt
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Old August 5th, 2006, 11:36 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Averdahl
Learn the keyboard shortcuts for In Point, Out Point, Go to In Point, Go to Out Point, Clear In Point, Clear Out Point, Clear In/Out Point, Insert Edit, Overlay Edit, Toggle Source/Program View, Trim Window, JKL-commands for playback, ...
Roger,
Thanks, I appreciate the input. I know the keyboard shortcuts are in the customization dialog and some in help, but I appreciate your pasting. I copied those out to a document I'll print out... :)

Thanks,
Matt
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Old August 5th, 2006, 12:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Vanecek
Roger,
Thanks, I appreciate the input. I know the keyboard shortcuts are in the customization dialog and some in help, but I appreciate your pasting. I copied those out to a document I'll print out... :)

Thanks,
Matt
You're welcome!

I forgot Page Up, Page Down, Home and End, Left and Right Arrow keys that are handy when navigating the Source/Monitor.

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Old August 5th, 2006, 12:49 PM   #8
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Matt,

It may very well be because I am a sloppy shooter. I shoot way more footage than I will ever need. I probably get 20 minutes out of an hour tape - tops. With the exception of concerts or other events. With huge gaps, ripple edits are kind of a hassle in comparison to using subclips.

Now that I shoot HDV, it has all changed for me. At the same time I started shooting HDV, I started using Scene Detection. So I only convert footage to the Intermediate Codec that I actually plan on using. I can always go back and convert more, but generally I get it about right the first time.

With Scene Detection, I never have a large clip, so I don't have as much cleanup to do, and I don't have problems with the bug that slows down the system when you use subclips from a large file.
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Old August 5th, 2006, 01:19 PM   #9
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Steven- How do you get scene detection to work? When I was capturing the HDV footage from my HD100, I couldn't get scene detect to work. Someone said it wouldn't work with mpeg.

On the other side of that coin, I was capturing old footage shot on my GL1, using the same as a deck. Scene detect was available, but didn't work. I also couldn't get PP2 to use my Dell widescreen flat panel TV as a second monitor. In playback settings, the only external device options were NTSC DV 29.98 and nothing. Working with HDV, I used the Dell frequently, without issue.

I hate it when my equipment developes mood swings and split personalities.
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Old August 5th, 2006, 01:26 PM   #10
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Uh, hmmm, I cheat?

I use HDVSplit. Works great. I review the files in VLC, then I use the Aspect HD utility HDLink to convert to the digital intermediate. I then can throw out any M2T file I will never use. I save the ones I might use, and convert only the ones I know I will use. And I seldom have to go back to get more footage, but at least I can if I want to.

HDVSplit and VLC are both free programs.
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Old August 24th, 2006, 09:39 AM   #11
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a little off topic, perhaps, but does anyone know of a shortcut that lets you set the in and out points for an existing clip on the timeline.

For instance, if you wanted to replace a clip on the timeline with other video, is there a way to just click on the clip and set both in and out points?

thanks
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Old August 24th, 2006, 02:28 PM   #12
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Steven, since you mentioned VLC - I was wondering if it comes with all of the codecs for the major formats (it's not clear from their website). I know there are some media players that would let you play several formats, but they seem to need those programs installed or at least the respective codecs - for example ACE Media Player plays WinMedia, Real, QT, etc, but only if players for these formats are installed. Basically I am trying to avoid installing unneeded programs...
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Old August 24th, 2006, 09:18 PM   #13
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The codecs included with VLC media player are listed in the VLC media player feature matrix.
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Old August 27th, 2006, 12:31 PM   #14
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I never really noticed, I guess. Since it plays my M2T I just use it for that. I have BSPlayer from Webteh for other things like Cineform AVI.
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Old August 27th, 2006, 11:06 PM   #15
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I've found the source monitor particularly helpful

when using clips from 2 unsynchronized cameras. I was most worried about synching audio, but after I get what I want from "cam a" into the timeline, and locate the start of "cam b's" clip, I float the mouse pointer over the "cam a" clip icon in the timeline, check the duration, then just add that to the time counter for the clip from "cam b" in the source monitor, then insert. So far it's worked for me. Just finished cutting clips from a 2 camera shoot, and I haven't been off by more than 3-4 seconds, and I'm getting better w/practice; towrds of the end of cutting, I was often right on the money, I usually take about 12-15 frames more than I need from "cam b", trim the clips if necessary, and snap in the timeline.

In instances where I am off by a couple seconds,, I use the wave form in the audio to eyeball lining-up the clips. Then I listen to both audio tracks to make sure I've got it right. So far, I've been happy with results.

Despite being satisfied with this method, I'd welcome tips on how to do it even faster.
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