suggestions on workflow at DVinfo.net

Vedran Rupic · December 28th, 2006, 06:19 PM

I have shot this music video where it will be exclusively composited footage.
So I'm in Premiere Pro, and i need to get to AE to key the footage and color correct it. And it looks like much of the actual editing will be done in AE. Yes, unconvetional it may seem, but i don´t have a clue of which workflow i should have as it will include millions of effects and compositing. Will i eventually degrade my footage if i keep importing and exporting it? I know that exporting to DV codec from premiere doesn't degrade, but rendering from AE with a codec does? I think it will be very tough to export everything compressionless and not to mention slow. Any pointers in which workflow to use will be very appreciated.

Regards,

Martin Chab · January 1st, 2007, 12:55 PM

Hi Vedran,
If you have Premiere Pro 2 and AE7 the best way to do the work you are describing would be to make the whole editing in Premiere to be sure that you have the correct syncho in every part and then to open the premiere project directly in AE. To do that you choose open in AE file menu and then select "All file formats" at the bottom of the dialog window (otherwise you will not see the premiere project), then select you project and click open. The system will ask what do you want to import, select your choice and thats it, you have the edited material with all the cuts, transitions, etc imported as an AE project. Now you can save as AE and make all the work you need.
If you render in AE, premiere or whatever with a codec you will loose quality at every render (most of codecs are loosy). Also you can use a lossless codec but the compression will not be so high.
Going back to the workflow. If in the middle of your work in AE you need to retouch a take (let say to move the in and out point some frames for example) you can go back to your original editing in premiere and when you are satisfied with the retouch to cut from premiere and paste in AE or to render losless and then import to AE. To replace the take in AE maintaining all the settings and effects appplied you have select the take you want to replace and then drag an drop the new take pressing the alt key at the same time.
I do not recomend you to make the editing directly in AE since to get a good synchro can be really difficult (not real time preview)

Hope this helps

Harm Millaard · January 1st, 2007, 01:31 PM

An alternative way might be what I did recently with a three camera shoot with multiple takes, all shot with green screen.

I captured all material with scene detection, put every take from each of the cameras in their own track and selected the clips to be used, deleted all the rest and cleaned up the project, ending with three tracks, each representing a camera. I then keyed every clip still in my project using Ultra2, exported with HuffYuv and replaced the original clips with the keyed clips. Then it was only a simple matter of transitions and track selection. Hope this explains what I did and possibly may appeal to you.

Vedran Rupic · January 1st, 2007, 05:15 PM

Hello Martin,

Nice to hear from a fellow swedish resident. The workflow you suggest is indeed a workflow I sometimes use, but what i forgot to mention in my post is that the problem with editing a music video like this is that the compositing will be very extensive, meaning, the subject will be composited on in a couple of layers in the same scene. So i think just standard editing might not do the trick as it comes to open the project up in AE.

Harm,
So you exported your project before the keying or did it in premiere, i didn't get that part?

I think the problem for me is in the complexity of the composites and cuts, so
perhaps I need to plan everyting in to the least detail before i even try to experiment with the edits and effects.

Steven Gotz · January 1st, 2007, 07:51 PM

Do your rough cut in Premiere Pro and then just select the entire sequence with your mouse, Ctrl-C to copy it, and then Ctrl-V to paste it into the timeline of a comp in AE. You must create the comp first so that a timeline exists.

Vedran Rupic · January 2nd, 2007, 03:47 AM

That's awesome,
I had no idea one could do that.
Thanks Steven!

Martin Chab · January 2nd, 2007, 04:06 AM

Hi Vedran,
In that case I think that if you key very roughly in premiere (only to see the general composition) and then discard the effects in premiere and work the real key in AE will be simpler to make the minute adjustements of synchro typical in music video work.

Harm Millaard · January 2nd, 2007, 05:04 AM

Vedran,

To reply to your question, here is an example. On my time line for camera 2 I use a clip five times, so five instances from the same clip. The clip name is 'Clip17.avi'. I open Ultra2, import Clip17.avi and make my key, export with the Huffyuv codec as Clip17.avi. Open PremPro and the keyed instances are automatically in the time line. Same flow for all other clips in the time line.

The advantage is that you need not worry about whether a clip is used only once or even 20 times in the time line, just replacing the original avi file with a keyed one is enough. The time consuming part is lip syncing the music clips from the different cameras, which in my case were not genlocked.

To clean up the project was simply a matter of deleting unused clips from the project bin, the remaining clips needed to be keyed, that's all.

The result can bee viewed here for a short time:

http://www.millcon.nl/Harm/Strani.wmv

December 28th, 2006, 06:19 PM	#1
Vedran Rupic Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Örebro, Sweden Posts: 71	suggestions on workflow I have shot this music video where it will be exclusively composited footage. So I'm in Premiere Pro, and i need to get to AE to key the footage and color correct it. And it looks like much of the actual editing will be done in AE. Yes, unconvetional it may seem, but i don´t have a clue of which workflow i should have as it will include millions of effects and compositing. Will i eventually degrade my footage if i keep importing and exporting it? I know that exporting to DV codec from premiere doesn't degrade, but rendering from AE with a codec does? I think it will be very tough to export everything compressionless and not to mention slow. Any pointers in which workflow to use will be very appreciated. Regards, __________________ Documentary work

January 1st, 2007, 05:15 PM	#4
Vedran Rupic Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Örebro, Sweden Posts: 71	Hello Martin, Nice to hear from a fellow swedish resident. The workflow you suggest is indeed a workflow I sometimes use, but what i forgot to mention in my post is that the problem with editing a music video like this is that the compositing will be very extensive, meaning, the subject will be composited on in a couple of layers in the same scene. So i think just standard editing might not do the trick as it comes to open the project up in AE. Harm, So you exported your project before the keying or did it in premiere, i didn't get that part? I think the problem for me is in the complexity of the composites and cuts, so perhaps I need to plan everyting in to the least detail before i even try to experiment with the edits and effects. __________________ Documentary work

January 1st, 2007, 07:51 PM	#5
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Do your rough cut in Premiere Pro and then just select the entire sequence with your mouse, Ctrl-C to copy it, and then Ctrl-V to paste it into the timeline of a comp in AE. You must create the comp first so that a timeline exists. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

January 2nd, 2007, 03:47 AM	#6
Vedran Rupic Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Örebro, Sweden Posts: 71	That's awesome, I had no idea one could do that. Thanks Steven! __________________ Documentary work

January 2nd, 2007, 05:04 AM	#8
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	Vedran, To reply to your question, here is an example. On my time line for camera 2 I use a clip five times, so five instances from the same clip. The clip name is 'Clip17.avi'. I open Ultra2, import Clip17.avi and make my key, export with the Huffyuv codec as Clip17.avi. Open PremPro and the keyed instances are automatically in the time line. Same flow for all other clips in the time line. The advantage is that you need not worry about whether a clip is used only once or even 20 times in the time line, just replacing the original avi file with a keyed one is enough. The time consuming part is lip syncing the music clips from the different cameras, which in my case were not genlocked. To clean up the project was simply a matter of deleting unused clips from the project bin, the remaining clips needed to be keyed, that's all. The result can bee viewed here for a short time: http://www.millcon.nl/Harm/Strani.wmv Last edited by Harm Millaard; January 2nd, 2007 at 02:45 PM.

January 1st, 2007, 12:55 PM	#2
Martin Chab Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Malmo Sweden Posts: 103	Hi Vedran, If you have Premiere Pro 2 and AE7 the best way to do the work you are describing would be to make the whole editing in Premiere to be sure that you have the correct syncho in every part and then to open the premiere project directly in AE. To do that you choose open in AE file menu and then select "All file formats" at the bottom of the dialog window (otherwise you will not see the premiere project), then select you project and click open. The system will ask what do you want to import, select your choice and thats it, you have the edited material with all the cuts, transitions, etc imported as an AE project. Now you can save as AE and make all the work you need. If you render in AE, premiere or whatever with a codec you will loose quality at every render (most of codecs are loosy). Also you can use a lossless codec but the compression will not be so high. Going back to the workflow. If in the middle of your work in AE you need to retouch a take (let say to move the in and out point some frames for example) you can go back to your original editing in premiere and when you are satisfied with the retouch to cut from premiere and paste in AE or to render losless and then import to AE. To replace the take in AE maintaining all the settings and effects appplied you have select the take you want to replace and then drag an drop the new take pressing the alt key at the same time. I do not recomend you to make the editing directly in AE since to get a good synchro can be really difficult (not real time preview) Hope this helps

January 1st, 2007, 01:31 PM	#3
Harm Millaard Trustee Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands Posts: 1,832	An alternative way might be what I did recently with a three camera shoot with multiple takes, all shot with green screen. I captured all material with scene detection, put every take from each of the cameras in their own track and selected the clips to be used, deleted all the rest and cleaned up the project, ending with three tracks, each representing a camera. I then keyed every clip still in my project using Ultra2, exported with HuffYuv and replaced the original clips with the keyed clips. Then it was only a simple matter of transitions and track selection. Hope this explains what I did and possibly may appeal to you.

January 2nd, 2007, 04:06 AM	#7
Martin Chab Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Malmo Sweden Posts: 103	Hi Vedran, In that case I think that if you key very roughly in premiere (only to see the general composition) and then discard the effects in premiere and work the real key in AE will be simpler to make the minute adjustements of synchro typical in music video work.