Canon HDV and Adobe Premiere

Josh Chesarek · October 16th, 2007, 08:16 AM

I know this used to be an issue with CS2. The solution most of the time was either to export it in HD, import it into a SD timeline, scale the footage, then render. Lots of extra work sadly. I personally encode most of my videos in multiple formats so I normally render an HD file, then use Squeeze to do a batch job in a few different formats which produces nice videos.

Mikko Lopponen · October 16th, 2007, 09:36 AM

I have cs2. I usually export a full-quality file out of premiere (usually an mpeg2 with a bitrate of 50mbps, sometimes uncompressed) and then scale it with virtualdub and encode to a dvd etc.

Thato Dadson · December 8th, 2007, 07:14 PM

Hey I just got a chance to use my schools Canon Xh-A1. Now i'm the first person to use it at my school and i need to some help on how to work somethings.

For starters I can't get rid of the grain on the footage. I have the gain at the lowest setting but the grain is still there.

Also when i uploaded the footage on my computer instead of up loading it 24fps it came out 44.96 fps so is there a special pull down i have to do, because when i tried the edit the audio was off sync and it was a big mess.

This is also my first time using HDV

Even Solberg · December 9th, 2007, 11:46 AM

Have you installed the Canon F-mode presets for Premiere?

http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...jsp?ftpID=3408

Rolf Seitz · December 9th, 2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thato Dadson

For starters I can't get rid of the grain on the footage. I have the gain at the lowest setting but the grain is still there.

Did you turn off agc? First thing you learn ;)

Thato Dadson · December 9th, 2007, 07:58 PM

Thank you for the link so that is installed.

And how do i turn off the agc and what does agc stand for?

Don Palomaki · December 10th, 2007, 10:45 AM

AGC = automatic gain control. It automatically increase gain in the analog video input amplifiers (reading signal the CCD) to provide "normal" image brightness. When shooting in low light conditions this can result in additional gain and corresponding increased apparent grain and video noise.

To avoid AGC, do NOT use the Green Box (easy recording) mode, and turn off the AGC switch. Set the AGC level selection switch to a level you can live with. See page 60 of the manual.

BTW: do not confuse video AGC with audio AGC, aka: Automatic Audio Adjustment described on page 49 in the Canon manual.

Hoy Quan · February 7th, 2008, 10:18 PM

What is the best/correct set up for editing 30F clips in CS3?

There is no Canon 30F preset in the stock installation for CS3.

Adobe offered a 24F and 30F preset for CS2. It allows you to drop 30F clips straight into the timeline and not have to render.

If you copy the same set of CS2 presets into CS3 and drop the same 30F clip into the timeline, CS3 will take time to render the clip. The 24F and 30F does not appear to work efficiently with CS3.

On the other hand, you can drop a Canon 30F clip into a HDV60i timeline and not have to render the clip. A close inspection of the preview shows the "progressive" look intact and there is no interlacing introduced. There appears to be an advantage to this method if you mix an interlaced 60i clip; both 30f and 60i seem to coexists fine.

You can take the same streamcliped .mov 30f clip into FCP 6 with either 30p or 60i setup. FCP seems to be happy either way and reads the file natively.

If you are shooting Canon 30f what presets are you using to edit in CS3?

Kiflom Bahta · February 8th, 2008, 01:24 AM

60i and it will be fine.

Hoy Quan · February 8th, 2008, 10:19 AM

That seems to confirm my suspicion that 30F is actually 60i with some behind the scenes processing to make it appear progressive. Appearantly PP CS3 and FCP can read it as 60i and not reintroduce interlacing.

I have tested a mix of 30f and 60i in a CS3 HDV108060i timeline. You can easily see the differences between the clips. When it is ultimately rendered out as progressive (H.264), the 30f clips retain their progressive look and the interlaced clips are deinterlaced to make a continuous progressive movie.

Todd Clark · February 8th, 2008, 10:37 AM

Are you guys sure that your transtitions are not interlaced???

Deke Ryland · February 8th, 2008, 10:44 AM

DEFINITELY you should be using the 29.97 PROGRESSIVE preset for "HDV". DO NOT use the 60i interlaced... that is wrong. Use the 29.97 progressive (it may be read as 30P, but really it's 29.97 progressive frame).

Hoy Quan · February 8th, 2008, 12:49 PM

Confirmed - 60i will generate interlaced effects. This is a title with zoom

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...nterlaced1.jpg

So the question remains. Is there anyway to avoid rerendering 30F when dropped into a PP CS3 1080 30p timeline?

Brian Brown · February 8th, 2008, 01:55 PM

I wouldn't get too concerned about rendering clips to view them (the red line on the timeline). It's something I rarely do, since it doesn't affect the real rendering you have to do to export a sequence. Rendering the timeline (hitting Enter key) just renders transforms, effects and transitions for viewing purposes only. I suspect that progressive footage in PPro requires rendering to view in order to be compatible with viewing devices, Firewire output, etc.

Today's jingle, "Don't sweat it.. edit in 30P." (okay, 29.97, to be exact)
Brian Brown
BrownCow Productions

Tony Ferguson · February 10th, 2008, 05:32 PM

Say,

I just tested 60i, 30f, and 24f and noticed that the 60 and 30 came in fine ( a continuous image on the timeline representing 30 seconds of continuous footage) to my timeline but the 24f came in in one meg segments and about 175 of them? WTH? I am using Sony Vegas Pro 8 and currently wondering if I want to shoot in 24f?

Can I still achieve a film like look in post with shooting 60i? Is 30f a good compromise (which seems a bit softer than 60i)?

Tony

October 16th, 2007, 08:16 AM	#106
Josh Chesarek Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 978	I know this used to be an issue with CS2. The solution most of the time was either to export it in HD, import it into a SD timeline, scale the footage, then render. Lots of extra work sadly. I personally encode most of my videos in multiple formats so I normally render an HD file, then use Squeeze to do a batch job in a few different formats which produces nice videos. __________________ Simple Thought Productions - Life @ 30,000 Words per second

December 8th, 2007, 07:14 PM	#108
Thato Dadson New Boot Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Newark, Delaware, USA Posts: 15	Capture onto Adobe Premiere CS3 Hey I just got a chance to use my schools Canon Xh-A1. Now i'm the first person to use it at my school and i need to some help on how to work somethings. For starters I can't get rid of the grain on the footage. I have the gain at the lowest setting but the grain is still there. Also when i uploaded the footage on my computer instead of up loading it 24fps it came out 44.96 fps so is there a special pull down i have to do, because when i tried the edit the audio was off sync and it was a big mess. This is also my first time using HDV

December 9th, 2007, 11:46 AM	#109
Even Solberg Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 106	Have you installed the Canon F-mode presets for Premiere? http://www.adobe.com/support/downloa...jsp?ftpID=3408 __________________ "Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- Edgar Allan Poe

December 10th, 2007, 10:45 AM	#112
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,487	AGC = automatic gain control. It automatically increase gain in the analog video input amplifiers (reading signal the CCD) to provide "normal" image brightness. When shooting in low light conditions this can result in additional gain and corresponding increased apparent grain and video noise. To avoid AGC, do NOT use the Green Box (easy recording) mode, and turn off the AGC switch. Set the AGC level selection switch to a level you can live with. See page 60 of the manual. BTW: do not confuse video AGC with audio AGC, aka: Automatic Audio Adjustment described on page 49 in the Canon manual. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

February 7th, 2008, 10:18 PM	#113
Hoy Quan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 36	Canon 30f editing in Premiere CS3 What is the best/correct set up for editing 30F clips in CS3? There is no Canon 30F preset in the stock installation for CS3. Adobe offered a 24F and 30F preset for CS2. It allows you to drop 30F clips straight into the timeline and not have to render. If you copy the same set of CS2 presets into CS3 and drop the same 30F clip into the timeline, CS3 will take time to render the clip. The 24F and 30F does not appear to work efficiently with CS3. On the other hand, you can drop a Canon 30F clip into a HDV60i timeline and not have to render the clip. A close inspection of the preview shows the "progressive" look intact and there is no interlacing introduced. There appears to be an advantage to this method if you mix an interlaced 60i clip; both 30f and 60i seem to coexists fine. You can take the same streamcliped .mov 30f clip into FCP 6 with either 30p or 60i setup. FCP seems to be happy either way and reads the file natively. If you are shooting Canon 30f what presets are you using to edit in CS3?

October 16th, 2007, 09:36 AM	#107
Mikko Lopponen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 393	I have cs2. I usually export a full-quality file out of premiere (usually an mpeg2 with a bitrate of 50mbps, sometimes uncompressed) and then scale it with virtualdub and encode to a dvd etc.

December 9th, 2007, 07:58 PM	#111
Thato Dadson New Boot Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Newark, Delaware, USA Posts: 15	Thank you for the link so that is installed. And how do i turn off the agc and what does agc stand for?

February 8th, 2008, 01:24 AM	#114
Kiflom Bahta Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 203	60i and it will be fine.

February 8th, 2008, 10:19 AM	#115
Hoy Quan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 36	That seems to confirm my suspicion that 30F is actually 60i with some behind the scenes processing to make it appear progressive. Appearantly PP CS3 and FCP can read it as 60i and not reintroduce interlacing. I have tested a mix of 30f and 60i in a CS3 HDV108060i timeline. You can easily see the differences between the clips. When it is ultimately rendered out as progressive (H.264), the 30f clips retain their progressive look and the interlaced clips are deinterlaced to make a continuous progressive movie.

February 8th, 2008, 10:37 AM	#116
Todd Clark Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Parma, Oh Posts: 172	Are you guys sure that your transtitions are not interlaced???

February 8th, 2008, 10:44 AM	#117
Deke Ryland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Washington, USA Posts: 213	DEFINITELY you should be using the 29.97 PROGRESSIVE preset for "HDV". DO NOT use the 60i interlaced... that is wrong. Use the 29.97 progressive (it may be read as 30P, but really it's 29.97 progressive frame).

February 8th, 2008, 12:49 PM	#118
Hoy Quan Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 36	Confirmed - 60i will generate interlaced effects. This is a title with zoom http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...nterlaced1.jpg So the question remains. Is there anyway to avoid rerendering 30F when dropped into a PP CS3 1080 30p timeline?

February 8th, 2008, 01:55 PM	#119
Brian Brown Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Estes Park, CO USA Posts: 426	I wouldn't get too concerned about rendering clips to view them (the red line on the timeline). It's something I rarely do, since it doesn't affect the real rendering you have to do to export a sequence. Rendering the timeline (hitting Enter key) just renders transforms, effects and transitions for viewing purposes only. I suspect that progressive footage in PPro requires rendering to view in order to be compatible with viewing devices, Firewire output, etc. Today's jingle, "Don't sweat it.. edit in 30P." (okay, 29.97, to be exact) Brian Brown BrownCow Productions

February 10th, 2008, 05:32 PM	#120
Tony Ferguson New Boot Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Duluth, Minnesota Posts: 16	1 meg segments of 24f footage???????? Say, I just tested 60i, 30f, and 24f and noticed that the 60 and 30 came in fine ( a continuous image on the timeline representing 30 seconds of continuous footage) to my timeline but the 24f came in in one meg segments and about 175 of them? WTH? I am using Sony Vegas Pro 8 and currently wondering if I want to shoot in 24f? Can I still achieve a film like look in post with shooting 60i? Is 30f a good compromise (which seems a bit softer than 60i)? Tony