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Old December 14th, 2010, 10:28 PM   #1
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Offloading KiPro content in a PC world

Just thought I would share my experience with offloading the .mov files from my KiPro drive into a Windows 7 environment.

First, I tried using a Firewire 800 to Firewire mini 4-pin connector cable into my Vaio notebook PC. I was getting 3-5 MB/sec transfer speed which is simply not acceptable in the Real World.

So then I switched to my big edit system (Intel Quad Core Q9250/4GB RAM, etc.) and I installed a "SIIG FireWire 800 PCI-32T" adapter card with a pair of Firewire 800 connectors. ($60 at my local PC parts shop) I used a Firewire 800 to Firewire 800 cable and the transfer speed appears to be around 1MB/sec which is unbelievably awful. What a monumental waste of time and $$.

Lastly, while I was wasting my money on the Firewire 800 card, I also got a $6 "Slimline SATA to SATA Power/Data adapter" cable. It fits the SATA data/power connector on the KiPro disk module, the same one that the KiPro itself uses to talk to the hard drive. That option delivers 60-80MB/sec copy speed and is clearly the fastest solution, as well as being the cheapest(!)

Just thought I would share my experience in case anyone else is working with KiPro in a PC environment.

I am using "MacDrive 8" utility software to allow me to view/copy files from the Mac-formatted KiPro drive.

SATA adapter cable: http://www.enuinc.com/acc-psa-sata-slim2.html
There are several variations on this theme available from various vendors.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 11:11 AM   #2
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Richard C. - We do not recommend the using the SATA connector on the Storage Module for connecting to a host computer. We do not make such a recommendation because we cannot be certain that the SATA adapter cable won't result in a power related issue for the Storage Module.

We often use MacDrive software on a PC with good results. Perhaps there is some configuration parameter that is not selected that is causing the low numbers you are seeing. I would recommend that you contact AJA technical support for assistance.

Regards,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 12:50 PM   #3
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Thank you, Jon I appreciate very much having an official presence in this forum.

The SATA connector itself carries no power. So it is not clear how there could be any power related issue with using the SATA connector? Presumably your caution applies to the Slimline power connector, and not to SATA in general? For example if one were to use the AJA-provided external power supply with the hard drive module.

The SATA "Slimline [power] connector" (which the KiPro hard drive module uses) is quite clear that it supports 5V only. There appears to be no shadow of ambiguity here.
Serial ATA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, if some users have tried using other voltages, then they willfully (or ignorantly) violated the published standard and have suffered the inevitable consequences. Of course this would happen with ANY electronic equipment that was improperly powered. This is not a phenomenon related to KiPro or AJA in any way.

I tried various Firewire connections on 4 different PCs and saw equivalent unbelievably slow results (1~5MB/sec) on all of them. I am quite curious to discover what could be wrong to cause the same symptoms in such a wide variety of computer systems.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 04:20 PM   #4
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Richard C. - You speculate correctly; the reason that a SATA connection to the Storage Module is not endorsed is because someone could inadvertently use equipment with inappropriate voltage, etc.

With regards to your FireWire experience on the PC, I will try to see if there are some optimal settings for FireWire use on the PC that improve the transfer times as those that you are reporting do seem unduly low. I myself have used the Ki Pro Storage Module connected to a Mac Pro running under Boot Camp with Windows 7 OS and MacDrive installed and it seemed reasonably fast to me in terms of transfer time.

Regards,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 04:51 PM   #5
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Richard C. - Perhaps you are using Windows 7 on your computers? If so, might be worth looking at these properties to see how they are configured and if changing them as noted below improves your performance:

1. Open "My Computer" or "Computer" from your (Start) Menu.
2. Right-click the external hard disk drive from the list and select "properties"
7. Click the "Hardware" tab.
8. Highlight the Ki Pro Storage Module from the drive list and click on "Properties".
9. Click on the “Policies” tab.
10. You will see two radio buttons - "Optimize for quick removal" and "optimize for performance".
11. If not selected, select "Optimize for performance" and click on "OK". If running Windows 7, also check "enable write caching on the disk".
12. Click on "OK" and exit.

Let me know if this happens to address the issue.

Regards,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
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Old December 15th, 2010, 06:55 PM   #6
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Thank you, Jon.

I changed the Policy to "Optimize for performance" and it seems to make no significant difference. Yes, I know how frustrating that is. I support 100s of computers, applications and servers.
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Old December 17th, 2010, 12:01 PM   #7
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Richard C. - Okay, sorry if that didn't improve things. Here are some other possibilities to improve the performance of the FireWire 800 transfer speed on your PC.

First, verify that you have the most recent FireWire 800 driver installed:
1. Click on "Start"
2. Right click on "Computer"
3. Click on "Manage"
4. Click on "Device Manager"
5. Expand IEEE 1394 Bus host controllers
6. Right click your FireWire host controller
7. Click "Update Driver Software"
8. Click "Search automatically for updated driver software" - Wait to see if a more current driver is found. If one is found, click "Close" and test out to see if your speed has increased

If you already had the most up-to-date version installed and it doesn't seem to increase the speed, try moving to these steps:
1. Click on "Start"
2. Right click on "Computer"
3. Click on "Manage"
4. Click on "Device Manager"
5. Expand IEEE 1394 Bus host controllers
6. Right click your FireWire host controller
7. Click "Update Driver Software"
8. Click Browse my computer for driver software
9. Click "Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer"
10. Click on "1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller (Legacy)"
11. Click "Next"

After these steps, see if the performance improves.

Regards,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
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Old December 20th, 2010, 10:49 AM   #8
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In relation to this topic.
Do you know if in any of the upcoming firmware releases, the on-board Firewire800 will be activated?
So that we don't need to remove the drive from th eunit for transporting the media.

Thanks for your help.
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Old December 20th, 2010, 11:09 AM   #9
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Marc C. - The use of the FireWire 800 port on the Ki Pro itself - as opposed to the Storage Module - is not slated for the next release of firmware, but will likely occur shortly after that.

Regards,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
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Old December 20th, 2010, 11:24 AM   #10
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I have also experienced the same problem that Richard has had with Firewire 800 being slow reading the KiPro drive. I was using the latest version of Mac Drive on a windows 7 64 bit machine and it was very slow. I also had a windows 7 32 bit machine and it didn't struggle at all with the KiPro drive. I haven't tried the suggestions posted by Jon, but will do so when I get a chance.
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Old December 20th, 2010, 04:49 PM   #11
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got it to work

So I tried all the previous suggestions that Jon listed in which non of them made a difference until the last suggestion of going back to the legacy drivers of the firewire card worked. I finally have it copying at the proper speed. Thanks Jon.
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Old December 31st, 2010, 12:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Thorn View Post
Marc C. - The use of the FireWire 800 port on the Ki Pro itself - as opposed to the Storage Module - is not slated for the next release of firmware, but will likely occur shortly after that.

Regards,
Jon Thorn
Product Manager
AJA Video Systems, Inc.
Thanks for the info.
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