you have helped me narrow it down to a shotgun: Sanken CS-1 or mkh416?

[Greg Bellotte]

i'll chime in also, to say your "thin" 416 is either suffering from a damaged element or a 1/2 pair audio cable. the 416 is definately not in the thin category. you'll find it's a staple for most live televised sports events. i have a box of 20 that i use on a regular basis...

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Steve Oakley

I really really really dislike 416's. they are thin and cold sounding. the mkh60 was the replacement for the 416. I got to hear some side by side comparisons and the 416 was the worst sounding one of the bunch. sankens are nice, shoeps better.

Originally Posted by Steve Oakley

I'd have to say about a dozen or more 416's. rentals, personal gear of audio guy, ect. A few months ago a side by side with several other shotguns. In that particular side by side, the 416 was the least pleasing and consistant with other times I've used them. 60 had more bottom in that one, and warmer sounding.

A thought occurred to me, Steve said his 416s that sounded bad were mainly rentals. I wonder if he might have gotten hold of some T-powered 416-Ts and tried to run 'em on regular phantom power. Don't have a clue what that would do to the mic but I'd wager that if you got anything out at all it would sound pretty awful.

[Steve Oakley]

nope... fp33 & SD442 mixers btw. also did a sound gig a few years back with a G&L mixer. I think its certainly possible to find one or even two bad mics, but I've been thru enough of them with the same results to not like them nor allow them on any shoot I'm producing.

[Ty Ford]

Fascinating, given that they are still a staple of the industry even after all these years.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Steve Oakley]

well, thats a more intesting thought. they are a staple, but that doesn't mean they are good - at least to me. I think it has more to do with knee jerk purchasing that everyone else has one so should I, the senhieser name, and 416 is a easy model # to remember. When they first came out, maybe it was also better then other models in its price range, but now, I just don't like the sound of them. there are enough other much better sounding mics to pick from.

I think that perhaps the reason there is a preference is just for their thinness - it tends to naturally cut rumble from wind, and upper end ambient hiss which makes vocals pop out more but at the price of warmth and low end. I can get the same effect in post with some hard eq, but not what I would want to commit to in the original recording. I think another factor is that these mics date back far enough that in the not so good old days of video, where the analog tracks where less then great, the thinner mic recorded better on tape.

[Ty Ford]

Hello Steve,

Apparently we will disagree on this. They are a staple because of their hardiness and the aggressive nature with with they dig dialog out of soup.

If you don't liken 'em, fine, but I have never found them thin. I saw one just yesterday in a radio studio in Santa Rosa. (It also works well as a VO mic.)

We obviously have different definitions of "thin."

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Mike Peter Reed]

both the 416 T and P48 supposedly can resolve from 40Hz to 20kHz, according to data posted at microphone-data. The P48 is rated as kicking out an additional 5mV/Pa over the T, so a little hotter.

is anyone willing to elaborate on why the CS-3e wins out over the mkh-60?

the CS-3e has a very even rejection across frequencies and kicks out 40mV/Pa which means it's pretty hot. all stuff I like, but can't afford to buy (I still get good use out of my ancient 416T which to my ears sounds much better than the indie staple ME66). interestingly the CS-3e is rated as only resolving down to 50Hz which means it is thinner on the low end than the 416 ....

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Mike Peter Reed

both the 416 T and P48 supposedly can resolve from 40Hz to 20kHz, according to data posted at microphone-data. The P48 is rated as kicking out an additional 5mV/Pa over the T, so a little hotter.



the CS-3e has a very even rejection across frequencies and kicks out 40mV/Pa which means it's pretty hot. all stuff I like, but can't afford to buy (I still get good use out of my ancient 416T which to my ears sounds much better than the indie staple ME66). interestingly the CS-3e is rated as only resolving down to 50Hz which means it is thinner on the low end than the 416 ....

Not that I'd expect anyone to risk a mic to try it, but what would be the result of plugging a 416-T into a regular P48 mic input?

[Brooks Harrington]

We have half a dozen 416Ts here, and students are always trying to power with 48 phantom. The result is no sound at all. They claim the mic doesn't work, and I remind them of what I previous said in class 'T-POWERED MIC DOES NOT RUN ON PHANTOM!!" Some of them have been so bold (stupid) as to start banging the mic on a desk to see if it's a loose connection. I then have to go through my speel about how microphones are probably the most reliable piece of equipment in your kit, and will probably outlast every other piece of gear we have.........which they have, and is why we still are using these T-powered mic.

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Brooks Harrington

We have half a dozen 416Ts here, and students are always trying to power with 48 phantom. The result is no sound at all. They claim the mic doesn't work, and I remind them of what I previous said in class 'T-POWERED MIC DOES NOT RUN ON PHANTOM!!" Some of them have been so bold (stupid) as to start banging the mic on a desk to see if it's a loose connection. I then have to go through my speel about how microphones are probably the most reliable piece of equipment in your kit, and will probably outlast every other piece of gear we have.........which they have, and is why we still are using these T-powered mic.

LOL - catch any of them trying to "swordfight" with a pair? I didn't think any sound would result with mismatched power supply type, just trying to think of things that might have led the other Steve's 416s to misbehave so as to give the results he described so at odds with others impressions.

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by Mike Peter Reed

both the 416 T and P48 supposedly can resolve from 40Hz to 20kHz, according to data posted at microphone-data. The P48 is rated as kicking out an additional 5mV/Pa over the T, so a little hotter.



the CS-3e has a very even rejection across frequencies and kicks out 40mV/Pa which means it's pretty hot. all stuff I like, but can't afford to buy (I still get good use out of my ancient 416T which to my ears sounds much better than the indie staple ME66). interestingly the CS-3e is rated as only resolving down to 50Hz which means it is thinner on the low end than the 416 ....

Yes it is, but consider usable lowend. Most of the time, when used outside, I roll off the bottom of my 416 while recording anyway just to scrape off the metropolitan "dunnnh". The CS-3e is more "natural" sounding than the "aggressive" sounding 416. Don't bother with the ME66.

I compered the 416 and CS-3 (before the CS-3e) for one of the trade magazine's I write for when it came out. That review is inthe articles archive of my site. Help yourself.

Regards,

Ty Ford